Non Sequitur by Wiley Miller for July 25, 2015

“Whatever”…. pretty well defines their argument.

A church that won’t admit certain people isn’t a church, it’s a club.

Well, to be fair, he didn’t say they wouldn’t admit them. He only said they wouldn’t marry them.

As for the “whatever” part of his argument… I’ve met plenty of people – religious and non-religious – who make pretty broad assumptions about people based on some pretty ridiculous criteria. I have worked with people who assumed if a woman is muscular and has short hair, she must be a lesbian, and if a man has a high pitched voice, he obviously must be gay.

Then again, I’ve also worked with a couple women who were muscular with short hair, and they were lesbians, and I also worked with a guy with a high pitched voice, and he indeed was gay, but those were just coincidental. And in deference to Wiley’s comic, I don’t know if any of them were Vegan. :)

Since ‘slippery slope’ is supposed to mean that one action or choice leads rapidly to another (less desirable) action or choice, we are supposed to conclude that Bald-Headed Church Guy is saying that choosing a vegan diet leads automatically to ‘becoming’ gay, because vegans aren’t manly.

Oy…

I don’t appreciate this

Just to get right away from the topic and the comic, I was wondering if someone could tell me, what do Vegans eat with red wine?

Terra Incognita must be a powerful Empire.Look at all the territory they hold!

No problems with Vegans (or even raw vegans), and I enjoy a lot of vegan food just because it’s delicious. No problem with gays and would be pleased to be part of any of my gay friends’ weddings. Having said that, I am looking forward to the next arc.

I wonder why Wiley knows so many stereotypes? I also wonder why so many believe them about the religious, “rednecks”, and others? Seems to me the “intolerant” are like Pogo’s enemy. I fail to see the difference when it comes to finger-pointing.

Why is it, if a church, with its deeply held beliefs and ancient sacred texts, decides to follow those beliefs and texts,, and explain them to those that are excluded by VIRTUE of those beliefs and texts, they are suddenly intolerant and evil for that?

Ignorance, intolerance, hate, bigotry, violence etc have been with the human race since the beginning and in the 20th century resulted in the murder of by some estimates, 200 million (or so) humans at the hands of other humans. Looking at the battlefield, it’s obvious that the various religions have been utter, total, complete failures at bringing anything resembling “peace on earth, good will to men (and especially women)” after a couple thousand years of “moral” (sic) dominance In fact, how much of the carnage was a result of religions’ “our god is the correct god and yours is not, so we’ll kill you, you heretic” type of thinking?

There is bad religion and good religion, and the bad has been cited to dismiss all faiths. The good has assisted and promoted life much more than the bad has taken it. Knowing the difference between the bad and the good is key.

“I dislike (fill in the blank), so my religion forbids it. I do like (fill in the blank), so, when my religion forbids it, it was only speaking metaphorically.”So, who is a divorced person to look down on gays? Didn’t Jesus actually say not to get divorced? As opposed to nothing about homosexuality?

It amazes me how some churches will not tolerate “sinners” (pick your own ’big sin;) yet the Bible says all are sinners. I thought church was a place to come to and grow and learn, not be perfect. If we got rid os all the sinners, churches would real empty, including the pulpits.

I don’t know what Wiley is on about. I’ve never heard of anyone comparing Vegans to the LGBTQ community. Is he feeling a little picked on or what?

I used to be a minster at that denomination and left after the church split over the issue of whether or not a woman could be a deacon. (Deacon means servant.) For some, their idea of service was cooking the Wednesday night dinner, not passing the plate (definitely only a man could do that!) or (gasp) going out helping people. (The problem was the men never went out and helped. Guess they were afraid the ladies would show them up!) Left ministry as I had this strange notion that God called people and he did the picking. (Quitting before I really go into a rant) .

“Whatever” shows just how much rational thought and analysis stands behind bigotry, racism and intolerance.“Whatever” = “I don’t need a reason — rational or otherwise”.

Welcome to the semantic labyrinth of dis-conceptions and religious presumptions Or, what the hell is in the water they are drinking?

There’s a simple way to avoid this.Tell people you’re a vegan, and then whisper to those who don’t like that: “But I eat bacon!”Your manhood will have instantly regrown in the minds of those who questioned.

Therein lies the rub. I’m supposed to follow your religion’s doctrines. How kind of you to offer.

While just now putting a new reply to QuiteDragon on yesterday’s page i realized that I owe WM a thank you for writing in such a clear and bold font. It is highly accessible and it is also cohesive when enlarged. That is a kindness, so thank you.

First, not to judge is to abdicate moral responsibility. The alternative is to end up possibly saying, “Oh, so you love to throw puppies off the top of tall buildings; in my inclusiveness, I support your rather counter-cultural pastime.”“Everyone” wants to judge as if they were left in charge. Not true.Some would not say, “And I have ancient religious texts….” but rather, “I willfully form my conscience according to a particular integral and consistent religious Tradition (which, by the way, is not above being self-critical) that produced and interprets certain privileged texts that have proven to guide people in achieving what they want most for themselves and their loved ones. (Fill in those blanks for yourself, but warning: none of those comes by cheap grace.)History knows societies that were dedicated to eliminating religions. Some of my people have died in the gulags and “hospitals” of one of them. No thanks.

Bob, to use a nice, old church word; "you are…anathema! "

“Oh, I’m a lumberjack, and I’m okay,I sleep all night and I work all day.”

Well, if you look at the history of religions many begin as being very liberal and sometimes even liberating for their times, but then the religions are reshaped to incorporate many pre-existing cultural aspects of their locations and in that way to shore up biases,mwhich preserves status quo. Various segments become emphasized, others forgotten or ignored, there are even portions which people attempt to destroy over time (and on that score historians have been fortunate when those ordered to remove segments preserved them in hiding). Wording is changed, translations mess things up, proscriptions that do not mesh with typical local diets and customs change, people find what they consider loop holes, dates alter to coincide with local festivals, etc.When people apply the New Testiment passages often used as the root for discrimination against gays and against self-arousal without takng into account that the foundation of the remarks was not the current application, but instead the destruction of much of the population by the Roman occupiers and a call to prevent that through procreation, then you get yet another example of some cultural biases of a given time being read into the text. You also get a through misding of the original intent, as if words are more important than their meaning in original context, a problem encounted in a RANGE of religions when fear of changes results in people trying to go back to what actually never was.Dietary choices are often imbued w almost magical powers. I am not saying here that certain diets are not better for certain people or even sometimes certain genetic groups, nor that some foods and their sources do not carry further environmental and health burdens. What i am saying is that it is rather common for people to treat foods as sort of a religion and to engage in magical thinking about those foods, then trying to apply what works for them to others. It is a matter of degree. Mentioning one’s own success to open minds is fine but instilling guilt, making sweeping statements,mbecoming overly defensive and so on just go too far. It is interesting what sorts of things are often imbued w powers, good or bad in cultures and in religions. Besides food, water, soil, and fire often are.Nightgaunt, the apes vary greatly in demeanor. Yes, Pan paniscus is milder mannered and more likely to use sex as a form of bonding and communication. Meanwhile, the more common chimp, Pan troglodytes, NEEDS a strong social structure with dominant individuals who then wind up very trusted because part of their “contract” is defending the others, not staying behind the lines while the others take the risks but actually assuming the risks. I worked with chimps for several years several decades ago. (an empty oil drumis a great friend in a harmless demonstration because the chimp proportions do not allow lifting it and banging it repeatedly to gain dominance, but most adult humans can certain do that, but then again you need to know your individuals, correct facial and postural behavior, the situation, etc. so trying that w someone like an angry full grown male P. troglodytes, espevially one you do not know, woukd probably not work but then again neither would much else.)

Had a friend that was Vegan and long distance runner, fit as a fiddle. He unfortunately keeled over dead from a massive coronary attack at age 53, just like his father did. My mother-in-law smoked till she died and went to bars every night until her late 60’s. She died of a closed head injury to the brain due to a fall at age 82. A lot of the factors in your longevity have to do with you genetic code, but it does not hurt to stay slender and fit. I really don’t buy into the vegan diet, just stay fit.

The decision proceeds from the mind of the faith community within which the texts were written. People not of the community are free to be left to themselves.(Note: There was not “the Book, then the Church”: The people called Church authored, or at least recognized what should belong – contradictions and all – in the Book, and what should not belong in the Book

Intolerance is an equal opportunity pitfall.

As to red wine w vegan diets, the chances are that he usually is having a non-alcoholic diet, or he is extremely careful w B12 intake sources. Alcohol tends to cause problems w accessible B12 levels and if a vegan drinks too much alcohol too often neurological symptoms will arise,msometimes markedly so.

Rarely, i can not tell if you are winkingly answering in kind or not, but Nightgaunt was to me being sarcastic and taking it to a level that even forbids certain cloth types to illustrate degrees of prohibitions and ignored ones.

We were eating at a restaurant yesterday when two men entered and sat down, Husband and I looked at each other, “gay”,,,,,,,,,and then their wives came in and sat down, Never assume, the first part of that word is what you can become!

Quite Dragon, thank you yet again! I have a lot to try playing with now.

goweeder: The lack of religion, as a doctrine, is a religion. It is a faith statement based on that faith. Try reading Thomas Huxley’s “On Agnosticism”. He coined that now-distorted word. He did not mean “Duh, I don’t know whether God exists or not”, but rather stop using the scientific method to try to prove or falsify the existence of God. It won’t work there, but rather use it for science, where it works very well.

I don’t want my long hair, pretty green eyes, with ( no! I do not have on mascara. ) eyelashes, skinny figure, undersized t-shirt, hip shake too much when I walk confuse anybody. I am a manly man. <p.Within this sissy frame, obviously rib laden chest lies a heart that beats to the drum of a native American ritual dancing wildness. It pumps an ever cascading supply of untamedness that a herd of wild mustangs have yet to grasp. If danger lurks about, I will seek it out. If adventure abounds, there I will be found. If a damsel be in distress, I will show her who is best. I am a manly man.

Because I don’t flush, and I leave the lid up.

Manly Man lyricsBradley Hathaway

Ditto, except that I would rather they didn’t continuously express them to those who do not share the same belief.

What I find especially amusing about today’s strip is that there are Christian churches that promote whole foods, plant based diets (which is what the guy Wiley claims to have based the original story arc with Bob on actually advocates… on that guy’s page, he literally states that his diet concept is not vegan).

“The thing is, after some people express their beliefs I can no longer respect them”

+1 Karma to Doctor Toon!

Thank you, Wallythe2!What i have been good at so far has been finding other types of tools, like ones to hold food during cutting with a tined one being best, headlamps to look into closets, an ulu and cutting bowl for safe small cutting, Mighty Bright Lights (wonderfully useful) and so on. Maybe some of those will be useful in your home, too. I also swear by crizal lenses to cut blinding glare and use them combined w transitions.

QuiteDragon: I think we could have an interesting discussion on the subject. I have carried on such for so long I would have suspected to know your “secret identity” except for the fact I know he has no Internet connection. Night-Gaunt49, with whom I frequently agree, is only playing word games. The reason I bring up Darwin’s Bulldog is that he is correct that neither the reality nor falsity of God can be proven, but is a faith statement. I have yet to see any evidence of God’s nonexistence, and only the feeblest on the affirmative (the watchmaker hypothesis fails to impress me because even at a gogleplex-to-one odds, there is still that one, and any omniscient deity would see the dishonesty in “if you are wrong, you have nothing to lose”.

It a shame when someone posts their ignorance of the subject for all to see. What is even worse is when so many chime in and say, in effect, "Hey, me too, I love making snide and caustic remarks about things I am totally ignorant of. " If you knew what you were talking about, you would understand just how foolish you look to those who do.

I’ve heard that but to me it’s just a book of mythology and silliness written by primitive, ignorant people and belief in it is passed down the generations through violence and the threat of parental disapproval. However, I know a few people who were believers who read “Misquoting Jesus” and it started a cognitive dissonance which led them to see that they didn’t have to continue to follow the superstitions and rituals of their ancestors.

I believe the more simple message of the last several strips has been simply, don’t judge a book by it’s cover. Or, perhaps, in this case, don’t judge a book by what they eat.

Amusing as it is to see how these comment sections digress , much as a rider that has nothing to do with the tax bill it is attached to, it’s kind of sad too. Kind of like most riders on tax bills.

hippogriff:No secret identity, at least in the sense that you imply. In the sense that I may have a superhero alter ego, well… This is the only nom de plume I have ever used on GoComics. I created this identity at the demise of Comics.com, where I posted under my actual name.I hadn’t really paid much attention to the conversation was between you and Night-Gaunt49, I was merely jumping into the “atheist is faith” contention. I have the highest regard for Huxley. I don’t gainsay that science doesn’t (and can’t address) the “existence of God” debate. But this is not a matter of proving the existence of God, rather, this is about belief in God (though for many/most atheists, that is non-different).Believers tend to take the stance that meaningful faith in God occurs as a consequence subjective experience; a demand for other proof moves one away from God. Therefore, it is the individual who must believe, and the desire for evidence is merely a device of the ego. Non-believers will argue (not without cause) that subjective experience lacks credibility given the mind’s ability to construct from memory and the senses, buoyed by confirmation bias. Ultimately, the argument is poorly constructed: stating that atheists’ belief is faith-based (in the same fashion as a theist’s) can be considered a straw man.

Reminiscent of “Real Men Don’t Eat Quiche.”

Not that there is anything wrong with it………………