Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for December 25, 2012

The wind desecrated a 40-watt lightbulb.

Just want to say Merry Christmas to all. I’ll add that I hope you all have a pleasant, safe and peaceful holiday.

“We Atheists don’t waste resources on make believe.”

Tell us how you proved there is no God.

“We Atheists also believe in live and let live.”

Did the atheist Soviet Gulag believe in live and let live?

Atheism and Marxism are now “religions”? And Christianity is now a “philosophy” (dixit grand poobah Bill O’Reilly)? Color me confused!

Nevertheless, happy holidays to all reasonable people of good will …

Peace and goodwill to all (whatever your faith or political views)Mike

This atheist is not in the mood to argue today. Merry Christmas, everyone!

Watch out, those wise men look like Muslims.

“You need to stop foaming at the mouth.”

Why are you still taking rides in UFOs?

While I’ll reserve judgement until I have more data, I have seen things that some bible-thumpers might have burned my ancestors for. (Not atheist, not agnostic, but unconvinced of a Cosmic Male Wrathful Parent. No human substitutes need apply.)

As for faith, I appreciate Richard Feynman’s line, (roughly); “I have faith that if I ask good questions and design good experiments, the Universe will give me honest answers.”

All that said, if it helps you get up in the morning, may you find peace in your heart with it, and good will to all; blessed be.

Make it a 10 or 15 watt bulb and then I’ll believe it.

“You made my point.”

Meaning you’re still gonna play UFO jockey?

I wonder if Fox News will ever discover the war against America. Each year they kill about 10,000 Americans in cold blood. And America is the candy store for anyone who wants to kill Americans. All the high tech tools are readily available, vendors anxious to provide. There have been three such incidents since the Sandy Hill School incident.

“… you DENY” “the existence of a Quorum of Gremlins on the Moon.”

I do?

Religious eCardNot so much eCardDog waiting for Santa eCard (sorry, I couldn’t play it as a simple link, so it includes the wrapper website) or video file (if you have an FLV player).

Isn’t all politics based on faith?

Faith? Bungee jumping is based on faith…. all the rest are beliefs. I, personaly, am a born-again pagan.

fox should only do entertainment, not news or business. financial analyst friend of mine says that the murdocks overpay their talent and staff. the company has too many issues and problems. the biggest upcoming problem is the british hacking scandal which they would be charged with foreign corrupt practices act. they even said that the westboro baptist church(the ones who protest at funerals) are leftist?

GT & Fox have much in common: for instance, they’ll never allude to the persecution that Palestinian Christians suffer.

Yeah, OK “Clark Kent.”

You know, every time I see Roland, I find myself wishing one of those giant Monty Python feet would come down and SPLAT!

The War on Christmas is a myth. The War (excuse me; transformation of) on America is what is underway.

@Most of Us: didn’t we just have this argument last week? (Summary: “Is NOT!” “Is SO!!” Without any resolution, as I recall, because neither side accepts the other’s definition of terms.

@LeoAutodidact, Erik Van Thienen: one of the many self-contradictions in Marxism is that while he denounced religion in his writings (“opium of the masses” and all that), the essence of his economic system (“from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs”) is pretty much directly lifted from the Book of Acts. And, oddly enough, the only times such doctrine of radical sharing has ever worked has been in religious communities.

Nature the original athiest.

“We Atheists don’t waste resources on make believe.”??#So, Santa Claus is REAL??

Happy Holiday and Merry Xmas Everyone!

Merry Saturnalia & a Happy Winter Solstice!

Pasta vobiscum, one and all!

“That’s only true if an atheist is a rigid dogmatist.”

What’s only true if an atheist is a rigid dogmatist?

“Most of us “atheists” are actually agnostics, skeptics who don’t believe for lack of evidence.”

I’m sure they can speak for themselves. For rational discourse, you need to stick to dictionary definitions.

Love the shout-out to the classic 70’s strip where Reverend Scott announces that “the part of Baby Jesus was played by a 40-watt light bulb”

“That’s not faith, it’s rational behavior.”

All rational behavior is predicated on rational thought, and all rational thought is predicated upon axioms which are accepted by most thinkers as true even though they can’t be proven. Example: if A = B and B = C, then C = A. These axioms are accepted by faith.

It remains that one can’t prove there is or isn’t a God. Hence atheists are no more rational than theists.

Peace on earth to men of good will, and if you are notof good will perhaps one day a cure will be discovered for your miserable condition.

“And the part of Baby Jesus was played by a hidden 25 watt light bulb”- Rev Scott Sloan, ca 1974 or so

only a fool says there is no God

isn’t this the day when the atheists & the theists lie down together lion-lamblike and the little newtown children shall lead them?

Thanks DT for taking the stance for WOC.You keep driving it the home.If one person gets it.Its a job well done.!

Another view would be, oh my goodness the city has put up a Nativity Manger, they are trying to force us to be Christians! “Roland, do you see any Crusaders or crazed Inquisitors running around?”

Let no copyroom crisis go under reported.It is of the essence to fill time before the content(commericals).

It’s worse than I thought! The atheists have forced them to replace Baby Jesus with a dim bulb.

Happy Deela-Malkh. After the longest night, the brilliance of *H₂eusōs and the renewal of *seH₂wol- .

To all my fellow readers of Doonesbury,Whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddist, New Ager, or whatever,Atheist, Deist, or AgnosticI wish you all a MERRY CHRISTMAS !More importantly, I wish for everyone to have PEACE ON EARTH AND GOODWILL TO ALL MEN ( and WOMEN ) !

You kids settle down, or I’m coming UP THERE, and this time I’m bringing the BELT !

You missed my point. I was responding to this inclusive argument: “We Atheists also believe in live and let live.”

I answered with this equally inclusive response: “Did the atheist Soviet Gulag believe in live and let live?”

I’’m not aware of any fact of history that shows that the Bolsheviks ever argued that “there is no God” was the conclusion of a syllogy.

As an aithiest, may I please assure everyone that the existence of God is not an arguement any of us want to win. How any of us explore our moral centre and our responsibilities within our chosen communities are always a noble exercise. Meanwhile, I shall be enjoying the many traditions and purposes of this wonderful Christmas season … truly, a gift that Christians share with the world.

My answer to any atheist “show me” argument is, “it can’t be done.”

“I tend to “believe” what logic tells me. Basically, it amounts to “I don’t know.” regarding religion.”

Which is what I’ve been saying all along.

Happy Kwanzaa!

To My Fellow Non-believers,Let’s take today off. To Those Who Believe,A Merry and Joyous Christmas.

Oops there goes, a 40 watt damn.

“The Atheist operates on more than the believer does. Much more information. So trying to create an analog to religion is in error”

The premise is untrue.

Ohhhh, man.

I consider myself “agnostic” to the extent that I do not claim to know whether or not God/gods exist.

I consider myself an “atheist” (small “a”) to the extent that I do not believe in any God/gods that have ever been offered for my consideration, and I make no allowance for God/gods in my conscious behavior.

I’l acknowledge that I have a “belief system”, but I don’t consider that synonymous with a “religion” (and if you mean “belief system”, why not say “belief system”?). I don’t “worship” anything, I have no rites or rituals associated with my “belief system,” I have no metaphysical framework upon which my belief system is founded (unless, as I suspect, you would consider “absence of metaphysics” to be a form of metaphysics").

If, against my every expectation, after my death I’m confronted with a deity (be it Jehovah, Vishnu, Gaia, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, what-have-you) who demands that I account for my neglect of His/Her/Its due homage, I’ll borrow from Bertrand Russell: “Sir (or Madam, or…), I was not given enough information.”

Happy HolidaysWhat about the religious constantly beating up the non believers. That is the real travesty.

Agreed- wait for it- as you will be bludgeoned with circular, biblical logic.

I miss the days when one wished Happy Holidays and it was accepted as a good expression to another..Now thanks to certain groups and puppet masters it’s considered an insult..I often consider that means for the Christians a Merry Christmas and if I don’t see you before, Happy New Year..Today it is generally thought to be included in this season include Christmas, New Year’s Day, Hanukkah, Boxing Day or Saint Stephen’s Day, Epiphany, Thanksgiving and Kwanzaa..And what’s wrong with that? They’re not wishing evil upon your life, just good things..Hopefully people will someday see through the War on Christmas as only a ratings grabber for the F*& News.

How about this – there is existance and we are aware, albeit limited to things which have a beginning and end, and we a product of something presently outside of our understanding. And isn’t religion one of many tools used to help us through another day of search and understanding.

Is not our main purpose in life simply to love and be loved?

Tell me, everyone, about your faith that there are no Gremlins on Venus. After all, my claim that there are Gremlins on Venus has the EXACT same level of evidence as YHWH.

Joy to all today and every day, no matter what your beliefs!

We Pagans believe Mother Nature may have had a hand in that … A Merry Yule to all!

What’s subtly excellent here is that the reference to the role of the baby Jesus being played by a 40-watt lightbulb dates back to a Doonesbury strip from the 70s or maybe 80s.

And, actually, Israel Beilin (same guy), wrote White Christmas, the best-selling single of all time, the same year….Heckuva writer.

Hey Red,Didn’t have a chance ( I don’t think ) to personally wish you a Merry Christmas or whatever passes for it these days. Anyway, hope you have a great day and really hope that the coming year will bring you joy, good health and prosperity.

So, the War on Christmas was started by Irving Berlin and Bing Crosby? I feel much less guilty.

What dim bulb is slouching toward Bethlehem to be born?Could it be Bill O’Reilly?Yes. Christmas is saved. Take that, you lesbian, feminist. pagan, Steven Colbert loving .Kenyan communists. The future belongs to us, and we will not be mocked.

The quote calimesjim is referring to is a column by J. Douglas Donahue in the News and Courier of Charleston, S.C on August 3, 1969 – about 2 weeks after the Moon landing.He was referring to the fact that most of astronauts were active Christians. Donahue also used the column to attack Madelyn Murray, a leader of the American atheist movement.Of course he didn’t take into account all the Soviet cosmonauts that went into space,starting with Yuri Gagarin, the first man to orbit the earth. I guess your accomplishments don’t count if you’re not American.

Pretty funny. An atheist tried to ban the words ‘Merry Christmas’ on signs in the town this year, but lost. Last year is was people putting up nativities and Christmas concerts that the atheists tried to ban. Too bad they were partially successful.

“That is why the Russian revolution was doing by destroying Russian Orthydox religion, and Oh it was a bunch of Jews doing it.”Right, Lenin was a big “Orthydox” Jew. Get a clue. You can buy one after Xmas when they’ll be on sale. In Jewish-owned stores.

Yeah, all the Bolsheviks were Jews. Some, like Lenin and Stalin, were secret Jews. If you don’t believe this, just consult the Protocols of the Elders of Zion or ask the nearest neo-Nazi nutbar.

“If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.”

― Bertrand Russell

roverit said:Hey Thomas Pi, none of you have gotten the point. Religion is being destroyed because men want to rule instead of God ruling. That is why the Russian revolution was doing by destroying Russian Orthydox religion, and Oh it was a bunch of Jews doing it.-I knew the poison was going to come out.Oh, learn how to spell “orthodox.”-To all my fellow Doonebury readers who are Christian;Not all non-believers are obnoxious and opinionated loudmouths. Most of us have laissez faire attitude toward religion, if not economics.

Red, I thank you for respect and you thoughtful comments. I wish you and yours a very merry Christmas and a happy New Year.

DylanThomas3.14159 and Masterskrain are both completely wrong in trying to claim that atheism is a religion. The very word “a-theism” literally means “no religion”.Some people own Harley motorcycles. Some own Hondas. Some own Kawasaki motorcycles. I own no motorcycles. According to them, that means I’m a motorcycle owner. Please.

Actually, I don’t know why I’m pointing out that atheism is a religion. Much better for the atheists if atheism is considered to be a religion. Then they can get all the government benefits and protections that are denied to them, but given freely to religious citizens.

If we could all agree to a common definition of “religion”, then we might be able to determine whether atheism falls within it (if we could all agree on a common definition of “atheism”).

Your first post in this thread ended with “…so Atheism CAN be considered a “Religion”.” I thought by that you meant, “…so Atheism CAN be considered a “Religion”.”

Merry Christmas to All!!! Never did see an “athiest”, in a foxhole, that had taken a bullet!!!

Thank you Masterkrain! You took the words right out of my mouth, but that is OK… Well done.

“40-watt lightbulb.” Classis Doonesbury reference, for us old-timers. Thanks, Garry!

We Atheists don’t waste resources on make believe.

And if you don’t believe, you have wasted a whole life.

So it would be okay to say “an apple can be considered a fruit…but it isn’t one?”“Can be considered” implies “is the same as”…otherwise it can’t be considered.But semantics aside, I’m glad you don’t think atheism is a religion. That’s just silly.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL

Yes, if you want to use the very uncommon usage of “religion” that doesn’t have anything to do with god(s), then I guess atheism is a religion…as is believing the earth revolves around the sun, that cows give milk, and that a hundred pennies is equivalent to a dollar. But does that serve any purpose beyond obfuscation?

Ah, Fox. Destroying America one institution at a time.

“Webster’s – or any other English dictionary in almost any edition – is a good enough place from which to find “agreement” concerning the “meaning(s) of words” as any. Indeed, that’s what a dictionary is there for in the first place.”

Very well, by the definition(s) you supplied, I will stipulate (on behalf only of myself) that “atheism” might be considered a “religion” in the secondary sense, but it is decidedly NOT a “religion” in the primary sense (and is is fact explicitly excluded).

And if different people are considering the question according to the different definitions of the word (as a welder and a priest may be talking about entirely different things when they use the word “marriage”), I still maintain we have NOT agreed upon our terms, and no meaningful conclusions can be drawn.

Never underestimate the power of windy weather in the midwest! Yikes! We deal with it all the time…

“Atheists are the Rodney Dangerfields of religion. Time we got more respect from the fools of faith who deny reality”

The idea that theoretical atheists recognize “reality” and theoretical theists — such as philosophical theologian Paul Tillich — “deny” it is the purest expression of irrationality and nonsense of this entire thread today.

“how can aetheism be a belief or a faith when there was no such thing as faith before religion sprouted its ignominious head during the course of human history?”

Religion is pre-historic, going back in time at least as far as 50,000 years and at most 500,000.

“I think they’re different. The first is the lack of a belief. The second is a belief.”

And I think: “lack of a belief” = “a belief”.

Obviously, we think differently.

No, I’m not presenting lab data. Just my own observations.One of the key differences between the religious and the atheists is that the religious can choose what to believe. The atheist can only recognize what he believes.Another key difference is that the religious can’t deal with being alive without believing that a god is behind it all. The atheist doesn’t have that need.Thus, neither does the other a favor by trying to force religion on the atheist, or taking it away from the religious.

Oh God!! Merry Christmas!! I’m so happy that most of my friends have better things to do than sit around and beat this horse to death (again).

Re beating a dead horse to death.

“The unexamined life is not worth living for a human being.”

—(Attributed by Plato to) Socrates (who left no writings of his own), c.470 BCE – 399 BCE, Athens.

“Do you think an atheist can suddenly decide to start believing in a god or gods, despite complete lack of evidence?”

I agree with the assertion that there is a complete lack of scientific, historical-ciritical evidence. As far as an atheist suddenly deciding to start believing in a god or gods is concerned, I think that depends on the atheist.

“Do you think an atheist needs a god in his life in order to cope?”

Again, the answer depends, entirely and solely, upon the atheist.

Pre-Socratic philosophers (Greek “physicists”) never questioned the existence of god / gods / God / Gods (Hindu). Not with respect to their “natural philosophy”, what we today would call science. Nor did Socrates. Nor Plato. Nor Aristotle. Atheism (no-god-belief) is a modern phenomenon. Even modern mathematical-theoretical physicists do not work with reference to God in their equations.

I have posted the following example before:

E = MC^2 works in nature (where E = energy, M = mass, C = lightspeed). However, E = MC^2 + G (where G = God) does not work in nature. But neither does E = MC^2 – G.

The “G” question has an obviously moot answer.

Interesting. Must be the Aging of a Cartoonist. Never mind the sad attempt at humor. The real sign is when an effort to be provocatively offensive winds up being just plain boring.

“Much of what people used religion to explain has been found to need no such magical thinking.”

While I would agree, my point was not that, but this: God-thinking has no influence, one way or the other, on the conduct of modern mathematical-theoretical physics. IOW, Much of what people used religion to explain in the past has in modern times neither been found to need or to not need “God-thinking”. (I choose not to use the term “magical thinking”, because it is pejorative.)

Stephen Hawking has recently written, “It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.” (THE GRAND DESIGN, p. 180.) I agree with him.

However, unlike some atheists, scientist Hawking neither in this book nor anywhere else makes any attempt whatsoever to either PROVE or to DISPROVE the existence of God.

Smart man.

“You don’t want it to be true. then your specious argument falls apart from lack of logic and support.”

No comment necessary.

“there is no reason for [god / gods / God / Gods] in the physical universe.”

You don’t know that; you only assert it.

My view as an agnostic is that I cannot prove that God or gods do not exist, but neither can a theist prove that dragons do not exist. If I say dragons ate the gods, how can I be contradicted? I cannot find any proof that God or gods do exist, nor can I find any agreement among theists as to which of history’s worshipped gods did or did not exist. Discussions about the existence of any particular god commonly end in some form of the argument that God is beyond human comprehension, that His ways are not our ways, that we must have faith and not demand proof. This argument can only satisfy people of faith. As an agnostic I don’t know if there is a god , nor how to know if it is one god or many nor what standing faith has in the questionof why there is a universe with us in it. Maybe Thing and Nothing altrnate. As theists and philosophers argue about why there is something, I ask why not?

The Christians first waged the war two thousand years ago – “Keep the Saturn in Saturnalia.”

Lots of psuedo logic going on here. I don’t believe in any god. You can call me an athiest if you wish.

Again, Atheism is the ABSENCE of belief. It is not the belief that there is no god, it is the lack of belief in a god. Things happen according to the theories and laws of science whether we believe they will or not. That is why it is NOT a religion. It does not require us to believe it to be true. While religion is ALL about what you believe, without regard to existing reality and fact.

This is a reference back to a very early strip where Rev. Scott introduced a nativity play, saying that the part of Baby Jesus was played by a 40 watt lightbulb. Trudeau has a great memory, or great factcheckers!