Nancy Pelosi is usually a shrewd strategist, but is overly concerned that any movement towards impeachment — even just opening an impeachment INQUIRY, not full articles of impeachment being introduced — would cause Trump to claim that impeachment in the House followed by acquittal in the Senate as exoneration, he is going to claim exoneration no matter what happens.
But as Julián Castro pointed out, Trump will also claim that failure to impeach would be an admission by Democrats that even they knew there was no basis.
Belief that the Senate seems unlikely to convict rests on assumptions based on the current climate. Compare with Nixon in 1974: Following a close election win in 1968, Nixon romped to reelection in 1972 carrying 49 states and 61% of the popular vote. Nixon was smart and popular. Trump, who only got 46% of the vote and not even the most votes, is neither. The idea that, less than two years after this roaring landslide, Nixon could be forced out of office to avoid impeachment and certain conviction in the Senate was unimaginable.
What changed was the evidence. What changed was holding public hearings. The hearings did not start with articles of impeachment, which would have quickly failed. They started as impeachment inquiries, in full public view, just to gather and present the facts. And once those facts were gathered and made public, and demonstrated the full extent of Nixon’s crimes, only then were articles of impeachment introduced, passed out of committee and, before they could go to the full House, Republican senators, led by Barry Goldwater, went to Nixon and warned him that he would be convicted with an overwhelming bipartisan vote in the Senate, and it would be less humiliating for him to resign.
I though that she was just waiting for the perfect ‘kill shot’, the one piece of evidence that will put the Rump down. But with the Rump’s stonewalling, I think maybe a scatter shot of evidence will be needed.
Our current Senate will never convict trump of anything. Speaker Pelosi should time the start of impeachment proceedings for maximum support and maximum impact. See “Here’s why Pelosi won’t allow the House to pursue impeachment”:
I think it’s pragmatic. Pelosi’s agenda is much more popular than impeachment, meaning either Democrats get what they want, or Republicans have to vote against popular opinion ahead of elections
As I recall from an old movie.. “you don’t bring a knife to a gun fight”. trump knows from his real estate business .. good guys finish last. And he (the trump) will do and use whatever his position as president can muster to win the next election.. rules and “right or wrong” be damned
Oh sure. Bring an impeachment proceeding to Mitch. See how long it takes to get to the floor of the Senate. Like never, maybe? (Conviction by the Senate? When things are going so well? Seriously?) /s
As much as Pelosi “talks tough”, she, and the rest of the Dems, most times cave into Trump’s demands and gives hims what he wants. What ever happened to “I won’t give Trump a penny for his wall” declaration one week, and then on one of the next budget bills, signs off on a couple of Billion for “the wall”? Where is “Hard Nose Nancy” in all this?
We look, that is we the people… We look as if we’re afraid to fight back against tyranny… Even in school as little kids we learned the only way to beat a bully is to stand up to a bully… If we don’t fight back… we lose… that is the bottom line… Either we stand up to the bully and perhaps get rid of the bully… Or we cave… And give the bully the playground… Which is what he wants… If Pelosi won’t do the job… Who is going to do it??? We know that the McConnell will block for Trump any repercussions of Trumps power grab. So perhaps maybe we can get rid of McConnell during the next voting session. That’s going to be difficult though because his wife is channeling a humongous amount of money into Kentucky. Which Kentucky will see as the benefit of having McConnell in as majority leader in the Senate. This is not a win-win situation for us. Someone said that Pence would be better… Only if you want to live in the handmaidens tale as real life.
By his tweets this morning Trump is melting down into some kind of crazed lunatic. And he has his is fingers on the nuclear bottons. Extremely dangerous and scary!
Good history lesson but that doesn’t mean Pelosi is wrong. A more recent example is Clinton. The Republicans didn’t have the votes in the Senate and made fools of themselves. Pelosi doesn’t have the votes in the Senate so why go down that road. Further, I predict that merely opening an impeachment inquiry would result in Drumpf screaming, “I’ve been impeached.” Half the country won’t know the difference.
I respect Pelosi’s strategic sense, but I have also spent a lot of my life pushing liberal politicians to stand up for what they believe in. There’s something about running for office that makes good people overly cautious. The radicals of the civil rights movement had to push the liberals; the radicals of the anti-war movement had to push the liberals; you can say the same for women’s rights, same-sex marriage rights, and so on and so on. So I think we have to keep pushing.
Impeachment won’t work for so many reasons… and if you just want to embarrass Trump in front of his adoring fans, get ready for comparisons to the Passion of Christ.
If and when he is no longer president and can’t wave pardons as paybacks to canaries that wouldn’t sing… then he’s back in court, with a hundred attorneys defending his cases… statute of limitations, mental health, witnesses that won’t or can’t testify, NDA’s… it’s his game.
… but those that enabled him may be held accountable, once he’s out of office.
I continue to believe Ms Nancy knows what she’s doing. What’s hoped for is a crushing blow in the 2020 election. Stick trump’s head in the mud and stand on it. Something that would leave no doubt of validity and nothing for the great crybaby and his blindfaith followers to use to challenge the results.
Why is it that there is no one in congress or the punditry class that is clamoring to tellNancy Pelosi that professor Laurence Tribe has the intelligent solution to HER problem—-have the House hold a televised Impeachment INQUIRY ,come to a conclusion and if the evidence shows herr drumpf guilty proclaim him so and then let happen what will.
I totally agree that no one could reasonably believe that Trump is not guilty of lots and lots of stuff. The problem is that I know a bunch of people who UNreasonably believe it. And, a whole bunch of other people who are marginally interested and would believe that the news reports, in which Trump would declare that since the senate found him innocent he is pure as the driven snow. The idea that it is the moral, patriotic, honorable thing to impeach him because he is obviously guilty makes some sense. It makes more sense to believe that it is the moral, patriotic, honorable thing to do what is best for this country, and setting Trump up to be declared innocent by the senate is not in the best interests of this country.
DD Wiz Premium Member almost 5 years ago
Nancy Pelosi is usually a shrewd strategist, but is overly concerned that any movement towards impeachment — even just opening an impeachment INQUIRY, not full articles of impeachment being introduced — would cause Trump to claim that impeachment in the House followed by acquittal in the Senate as exoneration, he is going to claim exoneration no matter what happens.
But as Julián Castro pointed out, Trump will also claim that failure to impeach would be an admission by Democrats that even they knew there was no basis.
Belief that the Senate seems unlikely to convict rests on assumptions based on the current climate. Compare with Nixon in 1974: Following a close election win in 1968, Nixon romped to reelection in 1972 carrying 49 states and 61% of the popular vote. Nixon was smart and popular. Trump, who only got 46% of the vote and not even the most votes, is neither. The idea that, less than two years after this roaring landslide, Nixon could be forced out of office to avoid impeachment and certain conviction in the Senate was unimaginable.
What changed was the evidence. What changed was holding public hearings. The hearings did not start with articles of impeachment, which would have quickly failed. They started as impeachment inquiries, in full public view, just to gather and present the facts. And once those facts were gathered and made public, and demonstrated the full extent of Nixon’s crimes, only then were articles of impeachment introduced, passed out of committee and, before they could go to the full House, Republican senators, led by Barry Goldwater, went to Nixon and warned him that he would be convicted with an overwhelming bipartisan vote in the Senate, and it would be less humiliating for him to resign.
continues…
Walrus Gumbo Premium Member almost 5 years ago
Wonder (what she’s good for) Woman.
Liverlips McCracken Premium Member almost 5 years ago
There is no problem so dire that Democrats cannot punt on it.
Say What Now‽ Premium Member almost 5 years ago
I though that she was just waiting for the perfect ‘kill shot’, the one piece of evidence that will put the Rump down. But with the Rump’s stonewalling, I think maybe a scatter shot of evidence will be needed.
JDave almost 5 years ago
Our current Senate will never convict trump of anything. Speaker Pelosi should time the start of impeachment proceedings for maximum support and maximum impact. See “Here’s why Pelosi won’t allow the House to pursue impeachment”:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/06/15/heres-why-pelosi-wont-allow-house-pursue-impeachment-least-not-yet/?utm_term=.f9cfcdf7381f
benjamineyal almost 5 years ago
I think it’s pragmatic. Pelosi’s agenda is much more popular than impeachment, meaning either Democrats get what they want, or Republicans have to vote against popular opinion ahead of elections
Alberta Oil Premium Member almost 5 years ago
As I recall from an old movie.. “you don’t bring a knife to a gun fight”. trump knows from his real estate business .. good guys finish last. And he (the trump) will do and use whatever his position as president can muster to win the next election.. rules and “right or wrong” be damned
Bookworm almost 5 years ago
Oh sure. Bring an impeachment proceeding to Mitch. See how long it takes to get to the floor of the Senate. Like never, maybe? (Conviction by the Senate? When things are going so well? Seriously?) /s
Andrew Sleeth almost 5 years ago
Yep, Nancy’s looking more and more like a prospective Republican Party recruit with each passing day.
William Bednar Premium Member almost 5 years ago
As much as Pelosi “talks tough”, she, and the rest of the Dems, most times cave into Trump’s demands and gives hims what he wants. What ever happened to “I won’t give Trump a penny for his wall” declaration one week, and then on one of the next budget bills, signs off on a couple of Billion for “the wall”? Where is “Hard Nose Nancy” in all this?
Meh~tdology, fka Pepelaputr almost 5 years ago
“Impeachment” doesn’t have to be declared right away, the death-of-a-thousand-cuts of investigations will drive Donnie nuts, however.
S&C = Dismayed&Depressed almost 5 years ago
We look, that is we the people… We look as if we’re afraid to fight back against tyranny… Even in school as little kids we learned the only way to beat a bully is to stand up to a bully… If we don’t fight back… we lose… that is the bottom line… Either we stand up to the bully and perhaps get rid of the bully… Or we cave… And give the bully the playground… Which is what he wants… If Pelosi won’t do the job… Who is going to do it??? We know that the McConnell will block for Trump any repercussions of Trumps power grab. So perhaps maybe we can get rid of McConnell during the next voting session. That’s going to be difficult though because his wife is channeling a humongous amount of money into Kentucky. Which Kentucky will see as the benefit of having McConnell in as majority leader in the Senate. This is not a win-win situation for us. Someone said that Pence would be better… Only if you want to live in the handmaidens tale as real life.
sarahbowl1 Premium Member almost 5 years ago
By his tweets this morning Trump is melting down into some kind of crazed lunatic. And he has his is fingers on the nuclear bottons. Extremely dangerous and scary!
estes.house.account almost 5 years ago
Good history lesson but that doesn’t mean Pelosi is wrong. A more recent example is Clinton. The Republicans didn’t have the votes in the Senate and made fools of themselves. Pelosi doesn’t have the votes in the Senate so why go down that road. Further, I predict that merely opening an impeachment inquiry would result in Drumpf screaming, “I’ve been impeached.” Half the country won’t know the difference.
Kip W almost 5 years ago
Can’t help but wonder.
lonecat almost 5 years ago
I respect Pelosi’s strategic sense, but I have also spent a lot of my life pushing liberal politicians to stand up for what they believe in. There’s something about running for office that makes good people overly cautious. The radicals of the civil rights movement had to push the liberals; the radicals of the anti-war movement had to push the liberals; you can say the same for women’s rights, same-sex marriage rights, and so on and so on. So I think we have to keep pushing.
feverjr Premium Member almost 5 years ago
Impeachment won’t work for so many reasons… and if you just want to embarrass Trump in front of his adoring fans, get ready for comparisons to the Passion of Christ.
If and when he is no longer president and can’t wave pardons as paybacks to canaries that wouldn’t sing… then he’s back in court, with a hundred attorneys defending his cases… statute of limitations, mental health, witnesses that won’t or can’t testify, NDA’s… it’s his game.
… but those that enabled him may be held accountable, once he’s out of office.
Redd Panda almost 5 years ago
I continue to believe Ms Nancy knows what she’s doing. What’s hoped for is a crushing blow in the 2020 election. Stick trump’s head in the mud and stand on it. Something that would leave no doubt of validity and nothing for the great crybaby and his blindfaith followers to use to challenge the results.
Raging Moderate almost 5 years ago
I’m with Nancy on this. Stick to your guns Ms. Pelosi.
siddiqqi44 almost 5 years ago
Why is it that there is no one in congress or the punditry class that is clamoring to tellNancy Pelosi that professor Laurence Tribe has the intelligent solution to HER problem—-have the House hold a televised Impeachment INQUIRY ,come to a conclusion and if the evidence shows herr drumpf guilty proclaim him so and then let happen what will.
Concretionist almost 5 years ago
Couple of days ago, I heard her, on national TV, saying they were examining the facts on the way to impeachment.
Diane Lee Premium Member almost 5 years ago
I totally agree that no one could reasonably believe that Trump is not guilty of lots and lots of stuff. The problem is that I know a bunch of people who UNreasonably believe it. And, a whole bunch of other people who are marginally interested and would believe that the news reports, in which Trump would declare that since the senate found him innocent he is pure as the driven snow. The idea that it is the moral, patriotic, honorable thing to impeach him because he is obviously guilty makes some sense. It makes more sense to believe that it is the moral, patriotic, honorable thing to do what is best for this country, and setting Trump up to be declared innocent by the senate is not in the best interests of this country.
William Bednar Premium Member almost 5 years ago
All flash, but no bang.
timbob2313 Premium Member almost 5 years ago