Oh Elly, you have it totally wrong. Mike did not ask to be born. YOU wanted to have him and gave birth to him. It is YOU who owe him a good life, owe him to raise him properly, owe it to him to get an education, owe it to him that YOU will make sure he will grow up to be a productive and law-abiding citizen. He does not owe you anything for eating your food and live in your house. You asked to have a child and you do know and expect that you will need to feed him, clothe him, discipline him, teach him, bathe him, buy him things he needs. If you use this against him, saying he owes you his life, then you should NOT be a mother. You owe him YOURSELF, your TIME, and most of all, LOVE. Saying he owes you is a veiled threat, a guilt trip for something he is not guilty of – being born.
No possible good can come of “keeping score” in any relationship, and that includes the parent/child relationship. Declaring that children “owe” their parents for raising them is not correct.
I don’t like this one bit. My parents raised me in a similar way, frequently taking away my belongings as punishments, refusing to put a lock on my door, and going so far as to insist “you’re not in YOUR room, you’re in OUR room! We own this house!” I resented them highly for it, and moved out as soon as I could. My four older siblings did the exact same thing, and my parents never seemed to learn that they were pushing us away.
It is only in very modern times that children have been treated as ‘children’. In ancient days, most families were low income subsidence farmers, and children were unpaid laborers. The boys did crop or animal field work or hunted; girls joined their mothers and grandmothers in gathering wild herbs, cooking, bringing water in, or taking care of the very young kids. Mothers often died young in childbirth, and the older girls not only took over all child care, they often ended up as ‘wives’ to their own fathers. Even among the more well to do, children were not ‘children’; the girls were expected to be married off to someone the father of the household needed as an ally in business (or, if royal, in wars), the oldest male was to inherit the properties and see that they continued to make profits, and younger males were either to serve in the military or to join the clergy.
Not a whole lot of team players here. Seems like either all give or all take. No one working towards a common goal of being a family and getting things done, helping out so all get ahead.
I’ll break the thread… Ellie, quit slouching in the last panel, stand up straight, & pull yer shoulders back! (Oh, and pull in the mommy-middle from whence your son sprung from! ;-)
LOL, I knew this one would draw the negative comments.
Yeah, Ellie sounds a bit nuts here. “You OWE us!” is not a mature thing to say, and isn’t worded properly. But it’s treated as the God’s-honest-truth from Lynn, who clearly seems to believe this.
There ARE more clever ways to word this- stuff like “we pay you an allowance for things like this; raising a household is a lot of hard work, and it’s not too much to ask for you to help out periodically; this will teach you work ethic so you aren’t an unhireable nuisance to prospective employers”, etc. I mean, doing chores is expected and necessary of older children sometimes.
My Mom never said the word owed. The older I got, the more responsibilities I was expected to take on. Yeah I fought a bit—I was a teen—but I still did them. A baby is never asked to be born, babies are only asked to grow up well and be able to take care of themselves in the world.
it certainly is a bit OTT as jabroniville says, but trying to discourage a “take” mentality is not a bad thing. As children start off being given everything (as is only to be expected), at some point in time they have to learn how to be a contributor. having said that, elly’s comments about being owed contribution of effort are probably couched in terms that mike might understand, even if, as has been pointed out, he didn’t choose to be born. In fact, unless we are taught to be contributors to society and its wealth and ability to support those unable to do so, then it is less likely society will be able to support itself. After all, laziness is a pre-disposition; it does not need to be taught :-)
My parents took a different approach, which I approve of, and even did then. We all (7 kids) had our chores that we did, unpaid. When we were old enough to get a paying job, we started paying “rent” (some small token amount based on income…and neighborhood babysitting didn’t count). We all thought it was fair. My girls have their chores; they get a (very) small allowance, but it’s not based on their chores (it’s hard to explain).
It would have been much better for Elly to have said something like “We are a team here, and we all are pulling together to make things good for our family.” “Owe” is harsh and cold.
I think “owe” might have been the wrong word to use. I had chores, which I didn’t get paid for. I was told that I needed to do the chores (lawn mowing, dishes, etc.) as part of the house hold. I get to live there, I needed to do chores to keep it functioning. I never had a problem with that. If I wanted money, i had to babysit or get a job or whatever.
First time I have EVER been disappointed in one of Lynn’s strips. What a horrible thing to say to your child … that they live in YOUR HOUSE and eat YOUR FOOD. Made my stomach clench just reading it.
Agree that “owe” is not the word I would choose, but kids who are expected to contribute to the family because their contributions are needed are happier and healthier than ones allowed to play all day.
My husband has the “It’s my house” attitude and I dislike it (partly because it does not include me). I had friends in the UK who say “our” about almost anything, and I like that, because the child does own part of the house and family (they will even say, like “our Tracy” meaning that person is “theirs”). However, because it’s “ours”, we do need to contribute to it, and yes, in that way, we “owe” the family our best selves and effort, including in chores.
The way it’s said, though, is a very 50s way and doesn’t sound right to modern ears. My father was brought up a lot “older” than I was, though he’s only 5 years different. My parents would have said that I had to do chores and it was good for me or the right thing to do, and I would have known that was true and done the chores, whereas my husband’s family focused on the fact that the parents paid the bills and owned the house, and your life was basically at their whim and you would be punished if you didn’t do as expected, and he would have gathered in the tobacco not because the family needed the money (which they did and was a good lesson), but because if not, his father would be furious and punish him. What a way to live!
My grandma had the same belief. That you should be so grateful for all that she’s done for you that you should do an equivalent amount of chores for her without having to be asked. Talk about unrealistic expectations. I would always tell her that if she wanted me to help her out, I would always be happy to do so – but don’t expect me to pull my nose out of a book to mop floors or mow lawns or wash dishes without being asked, nor expect me to keep a log book of equivalent chores…
When I grew up there was a mix of chores: the ones that were just expected, the ones that were associated with the allowance, and certain ones, like lawn mowing which were extra chores that had extra earnings attached.
There is a difference between responsibilities and entitlements. Our children need to learn what their responsibilities are, be a contributing member of the household, to develop household duties and skills, to earn an allowance in exchange for chores as a starting place of transition to the working world, and that they are not entitled to anything, that they have to earn/work for everything they want/need, that be education, job, home, food, etc. People seeking entitlements are basically useless people, raised by overly compensating/ indulging parents. Like I said already, children do not owe their lives to their parents – the parents owe everything to them to raise them to be productive and contributing members of the society. Parents who preach to them that they owe their lives to parents are parents who want control and instill guilt into their children in order to keep in them in line, to get them to do what they want them to do. A huge guilt trip. That is not moral. And it is religion’s ideology that says children owe their lives to parents because they encourage procreation for sake of human population growth, that people have a duty to procreate therefore children shall be thankful for their births to their parents. A twisted logic.
“You listen to me. You say you don’t want to tell me how to live my life. So what do you think you’ve been doing? You tell me what rights I’ve got or haven’t got, and what I owe to you for what you’ve done for me. Let me tell you something. I owe you nothing! If you carried that bag a million miles, you did what you’re supposed to do! Because you brought me into this world. And from that day you owed me everything you could ever do for me like I will owe my son if I ever have another.” – Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner
I never liked the ‘guilt trip’ method of parenting…my husband has a saying for our kids (used mostly when they try to get their way) “you don’t live in a democracy, you live in a benevolent dictatorship.” Lol. All family members in the household should try to pitch in to the best of their abilities. It’s not a matter of one party ‘owing’ another, but coming together to make the house run smoothly.
Templo S.U.D. over 5 years ago
yikes
capricorn9th over 5 years ago
Oh Elly, you have it totally wrong. Mike did not ask to be born. YOU wanted to have him and gave birth to him. It is YOU who owe him a good life, owe him to raise him properly, owe it to him to get an education, owe it to him that YOU will make sure he will grow up to be a productive and law-abiding citizen. He does not owe you anything for eating your food and live in your house. You asked to have a child and you do know and expect that you will need to feed him, clothe him, discipline him, teach him, bathe him, buy him things he needs. If you use this against him, saying he owes you his life, then you should NOT be a mother. You owe him YOURSELF, your TIME, and most of all, LOVE. Saying he owes you is a veiled threat, a guilt trip for something he is not guilty of – being born.
howtheduck over 5 years ago
No possible good can come of “keeping score” in any relationship, and that includes the parent/child relationship. Declaring that children “owe” their parents for raising them is not correct.
Rosette over 5 years ago
I don’t like this one bit. My parents raised me in a similar way, frequently taking away my belongings as punishments, refusing to put a lock on my door, and going so far as to insist “you’re not in YOUR room, you’re in OUR room! We own this house!” I resented them highly for it, and moved out as soon as I could. My four older siblings did the exact same thing, and my parents never seemed to learn that they were pushing us away.
Argythree over 5 years ago
It is only in very modern times that children have been treated as ‘children’. In ancient days, most families were low income subsidence farmers, and children were unpaid laborers. The boys did crop or animal field work or hunted; girls joined their mothers and grandmothers in gathering wild herbs, cooking, bringing water in, or taking care of the very young kids. Mothers often died young in childbirth, and the older girls not only took over all child care, they often ended up as ‘wives’ to their own fathers. Even among the more well to do, children were not ‘children’; the girls were expected to be married off to someone the father of the household needed as an ally in business (or, if royal, in wars), the oldest male was to inherit the properties and see that they continued to make profits, and younger males were either to serve in the military or to join the clergy.
Display over 5 years ago
Not a whole lot of team players here. Seems like either all give or all take. No one working towards a common goal of being a family and getting things done, helping out so all get ahead.
Army_Nurse over 5 years ago
I’ll break the thread… Ellie, quit slouching in the last panel, stand up straight, & pull yer shoulders back! (Oh, and pull in the mommy-middle from whence your son sprung from! ;-)
Jabroniville Premium Member over 5 years ago
LOL, I knew this one would draw the negative comments.
Yeah, Ellie sounds a bit nuts here. “You OWE us!” is not a mature thing to say, and isn’t worded properly. But it’s treated as the God’s-honest-truth from Lynn, who clearly seems to believe this.
There ARE more clever ways to word this- stuff like “we pay you an allowance for things like this; raising a household is a lot of hard work, and it’s not too much to ask for you to help out periodically; this will teach you work ethic so you aren’t an unhireable nuisance to prospective employers”, etc. I mean, doing chores is expected and necessary of older children sometimes.
jpayne4040 over 5 years ago
And the young mind is blown! Love the look on Michael’s face in the last panel!
GirlGeek Premium Member over 5 years ago
My Mom never said the word owed. The older I got, the more responsibilities I was expected to take on. Yeah I fought a bit—I was a teen—but I still did them. A baby is never asked to be born, babies are only asked to grow up well and be able to take care of themselves in the world.
timsoft over 5 years ago
it certainly is a bit OTT as jabroniville says, but trying to discourage a “take” mentality is not a bad thing. As children start off being given everything (as is only to be expected), at some point in time they have to learn how to be a contributor. having said that, elly’s comments about being owed contribution of effort are probably couched in terms that mike might understand, even if, as has been pointed out, he didn’t choose to be born. In fact, unless we are taught to be contributors to society and its wealth and ability to support those unable to do so, then it is less likely society will be able to support itself. After all, laziness is a pre-disposition; it does not need to be taught :-)
Wren Fahel over 5 years ago
My parents took a different approach, which I approve of, and even did then. We all (7 kids) had our chores that we did, unpaid. When we were old enough to get a paying job, we started paying “rent” (some small token amount based on income…and neighborhood babysitting didn’t count). We all thought it was fair. My girls have their chores; they get a (very) small allowance, but it’s not based on their chores (it’s hard to explain).
chris_o42 over 5 years ago
It would have been much better for Elly to have said something like “We are a team here, and we all are pulling together to make things good for our family.” “Owe” is harsh and cold.
Donzi over 5 years ago
I think “owe” might have been the wrong word to use. I had chores, which I didn’t get paid for. I was told that I needed to do the chores (lawn mowing, dishes, etc.) as part of the house hold. I get to live there, I needed to do chores to keep it functioning. I never had a problem with that. If I wanted money, i had to babysit or get a job or whatever.
DarleenMB Premium Member over 5 years ago
First time I have EVER been disappointed in one of Lynn’s strips. What a horrible thing to say to your child … that they live in YOUR HOUSE and eat YOUR FOOD. Made my stomach clench just reading it.
masnadies over 5 years ago
Agree that “owe” is not the word I would choose, but kids who are expected to contribute to the family because their contributions are needed are happier and healthier than ones allowed to play all day.
My husband has the “It’s my house” attitude and I dislike it (partly because it does not include me). I had friends in the UK who say “our” about almost anything, and I like that, because the child does own part of the house and family (they will even say, like “our Tracy” meaning that person is “theirs”). However, because it’s “ours”, we do need to contribute to it, and yes, in that way, we “owe” the family our best selves and effort, including in chores.
The way it’s said, though, is a very 50s way and doesn’t sound right to modern ears. My father was brought up a lot “older” than I was, though he’s only 5 years different. My parents would have said that I had to do chores and it was good for me or the right thing to do, and I would have known that was true and done the chores, whereas my husband’s family focused on the fact that the parents paid the bills and owned the house, and your life was basically at their whim and you would be punished if you didn’t do as expected, and he would have gathered in the tobacco not because the family needed the money (which they did and was a good lesson), but because if not, his father would be furious and punish him. What a way to live!
trainnut1956 over 5 years ago
My grandma had the same belief. That you should be so grateful for all that she’s done for you that you should do an equivalent amount of chores for her without having to be asked. Talk about unrealistic expectations. I would always tell her that if she wanted me to help her out, I would always be happy to do so – but don’t expect me to pull my nose out of a book to mop floors or mow lawns or wash dishes without being asked, nor expect me to keep a log book of equivalent chores…
Robert Nowall Premium Member over 5 years ago
Does that mean if he runs away he wouldn’t have to mow the lawn?
tuslog1964 over 5 years ago
I heard a kid say that once, and someone added, does that mean you are going to support your kids for life?
chain gang charlie over 5 years ago
And now that we’ve heard from the choir, it’s time for the spoken word from Spencer Kennard….
Petemejia77 over 5 years ago
Just want hand to slap that face in 3rd panel!
CeceliaKilb over 5 years ago
This is a comic strip people – are some of you missing that?
SukieCrandall Premium Member over 5 years ago
When I grew up there was a mix of chores: the ones that were just expected, the ones that were associated with the allowance, and certain ones, like lawn mowing which were extra chores that had extra earnings attached.
Train 1911 over 5 years ago
1776july over 5 years ago
With a comment like that….over a comic!!…we pray you don’t live in our country…
capricorn9th over 5 years ago
There is a difference between responsibilities and entitlements. Our children need to learn what their responsibilities are, be a contributing member of the household, to develop household duties and skills, to earn an allowance in exchange for chores as a starting place of transition to the working world, and that they are not entitled to anything, that they have to earn/work for everything they want/need, that be education, job, home, food, etc. People seeking entitlements are basically useless people, raised by overly compensating/ indulging parents. Like I said already, children do not owe their lives to their parents – the parents owe everything to them to raise them to be productive and contributing members of the society. Parents who preach to them that they owe their lives to parents are parents who want control and instill guilt into their children in order to keep in them in line, to get them to do what they want them to do. A huge guilt trip. That is not moral. And it is religion’s ideology that says children owe their lives to parents because they encourage procreation for sake of human population growth, that people have a duty to procreate therefore children shall be thankful for their births to their parents. A twisted logic.
fstop8 over 5 years ago
I always asked my grandpa if I could mow his lawn – he had a riding mower
ajakimber425 over 5 years ago
In fact, more kids nowadays don’t even consider that.
Teto85 Premium Member over 5 years ago
Never nag a kid about what they "owe’ to you. They did not ask for the condom to break.
djhaisell Premium Member over 5 years ago
“You listen to me. You say you don’t want to tell me how to live my life. So what do you think you’ve been doing? You tell me what rights I’ve got or haven’t got, and what I owe to you for what you’ve done for me. Let me tell you something. I owe you nothing! If you carried that bag a million miles, you did what you’re supposed to do! Because you brought me into this world. And from that day you owed me everything you could ever do for me like I will owe my son if I ever have another.” – Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner
yvonnembf over 5 years ago
I never liked the ‘guilt trip’ method of parenting…my husband has a saying for our kids (used mostly when they try to get their way) “you don’t live in a democracy, you live in a benevolent dictatorship.” Lol. All family members in the household should try to pitch in to the best of their abilities. It’s not a matter of one party ‘owing’ another, but coming together to make the house run smoothly.