Unique individual personal history, experiences and life goals
Can NOT be frozen, stored for years, and revived (sorry cryogenitists)
.
Fertilized embryo:
Not biologically autonomous
No EEG brain waves; no sentience; no consciousness; incapable of feelings
Zero individual personal history, experience; incapable of goals or plans
CAN be frozen, stored for years, and revived
[If the end of life and the point at which organs can be removed for transplant is the CESSATION of EEG brain waves, it defies reason to say that the beginning of functional human life prior to the ONSET of EEG brain waves.]
An embryo is human LIFE (as are human sperm and ovum cells) but not a human PERSON. But even if it were, it would violate basic human rights to force a woman to use her body to keep it alive.
An adult male is clearly a fully-formed human person. But if he needs a bone marrow transplant, which is minimally invasive and which fully regenerates for the donor, and it was difficult to find a compatible donor match and, when finally found, refused to donate, there is no place in the United States where you could force someone to use their body — just for a few hours, not NINE MONTHS — even to keep alive a human PERSON whose personhood is not in dispute.
Barney Frank, the ex-Mass. Congressman, famously irascible, opinionated, and cranky, put it so succinctly when he said “Republican concern with life begins at conception. -————- And ends at birth.”
Legislators need to care for the living – the children in foster care, the impoverished and homeless – and worry less about a woman’s private affairs. Her body, her health ( mental and physical), her finances, her business.
Where the penalty given a doctor “fixing” the problem of a rape (or incest) is considerably higher than the penalty given the assailant.. You know you are in one strange country.. led by men who like the good old days when rape and incest were accepted rights of the elite.
Read this somewhere. In these red states where they are re-branding abortion-as-murder. If a fetus is miscarried, can “host” be arrested for involuntary manslaughter?
And while we’re at it, if the fetus is human, will they get a social secruity number? And if that fetus miscarries, can the mother claim a social security death benefit?
Experimental science has established that an entity’s genome defines what kind of organism it is. The human zygote, embryo, or fetus are all entities with a complete human genome. They are all human beings, albeit immature ones at different stages of development. As it develops, both before and for years after birth, the earliest human being retains its genome, essentially unchanged. Nor does it ever turn into some other kind of entity during its existence.
(As an example of these facts, please consider this scenario: Suppose you want to grow pumpkins. You might buy the seeds at the garden shop. What would you think if the salesperson told you that the seeds weren’t guaranteed to grow pumpkins, that they might produce some other kind of plant, say, oak trees, instead. You’d probably wonder what he’d been smoking or conclude he was crazy. Well the pumpkin seed contains a pumpkin embryo and, when nurtured properly develops into a mature pumpkin vine. Likewise, a human embryo, when nurtured properly develops into a mature human being. I am ignoring accidents and genetic interferences such as CRISPR here!)
Constitutional “personhood” of a human zygote, embryo, or fetus is open to argument. But because all those entities possess a complete human genome they are all human beings, innocent ones in fact. Since the temporal event of birth does not cause an essential change in the kind of thing a fetus is, it has the same right to life before it’s born (and then clearly becomes a Constitutionally protected “person”) as does its mother. To paraphrase Abe Lincoln (on slavery): If abortion isn’t wrong, then nothing is wrong. On the other hand, if by the strictest Constitutional “interpretation” (an oxymoron to be sure) we make the case that birth does cause an essential change in the kind of thing a fetus is (from non-person to person vis-a-vis the Constitution), then the whole abortion debate is mooted; there is no objection to any abortion prior to birth.
I still fail to see how the party that is so vehemently pro-life, is also anti-vaccination and pro-war. Moreover, they want guns in every class room and cut social-security, educational & health benefits. I do not have the mental or moral flexibility to reconcile all those in one value system.
Missing from the list of options is a large, faceless, mindless, conscienceless artificial entity called a corporation. Conservatives think those are people, too — people with more rights than you and me, because they’re potentially immortal, can’t be imprisoned, and are allowed to own their own Congressmen.
These past years since the GOP has come into its own (insanity) have been stunning. I did not realize how many men have absolutely no idea about the development of a zygote to a blastocyst to an embryo to a fetus to delivery when the fetus breathes on its own and is a baby human being. Or the “workings” of women’s insides. Ignorance is most certainly not bliss.
The self-proclaimed pro-life* crowd is entirely too obsessive about the imaginary people they claim to be concerned about. They need to calm down, switch off their circuit diagrams, get out of their blueprints, sit in the shade of their acorns, listen to the pleasant songs of the eggs, and stop to smell the pollen.
According to some it is most certainly not A. The pro-lifers want to keep women from being anything more than breeders. I find this reprehensible and disgusting.
DD Wiz Premium Member almost 5 years ago
Adult human female:
Biologically autonomous
Fully sentient and conscious
Unique individual personal history, experiences and life goals
Can NOT be frozen, stored for years, and revived (sorry cryogenitists)
.
Fertilized embryo:
Not biologically autonomous
No EEG brain waves; no sentience; no consciousness; incapable of feelings
Zero individual personal history, experience; incapable of goals or plans
CAN be frozen, stored for years, and revived
[If the end of life and the point at which organs can be removed for transplant is the CESSATION of EEG brain waves, it defies reason to say that the beginning of functional human life prior to the ONSET of EEG brain waves.]
An embryo is human LIFE (as are human sperm and ovum cells) but not a human PERSON. But even if it were, it would violate basic human rights to force a woman to use her body to keep it alive.
An adult male is clearly a fully-formed human person. But if he needs a bone marrow transplant, which is minimally invasive and which fully regenerates for the donor, and it was difficult to find a compatible donor match and, when finally found, refused to donate, there is no place in the United States where you could force someone to use their body — just for a few hours, not NINE MONTHS — even to keep alive a human PERSON whose personhood is not in dispute.
Meh~tdology, fka Pepelaputr almost 5 years ago
Brain-dead male senators do not count.
Dtroutma almost 5 years ago
And which is considered the males’ property?
Liverlips McCracken Premium Member almost 5 years ago
Barney Frank, the ex-Mass. Congressman, famously irascible, opinionated, and cranky, put it so succinctly when he said “Republican concern with life begins at conception. -————- And ends at birth.”
DIF20 almost 5 years ago
Legislation should stay away from women 100%. They are their own governments and no one else’s.
Jason Allen almost 5 years ago
I’m going to go with option B, but only until it’s born.
Masterskrain Premium Member almost 5 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM
ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!! NO ONE SAYS IT BETTER!!!!Jelliqal almost 5 years ago
Legislators need to care for the living – the children in foster care, the impoverished and homeless – and worry less about a woman’s private affairs. Her body, her health ( mental and physical), her finances, her business.
guyjen2004 Premium Member almost 5 years ago
All of the above should be correct answer
Alberta Oil Premium Member almost 5 years ago
Where the penalty given a doctor “fixing” the problem of a rape (or incest) is considerably higher than the penalty given the assailant.. You know you are in one strange country.. led by men who like the good old days when rape and incest were accepted rights of the elite.
goblue86 almost 5 years ago
Read this somewhere. In these red states where they are re-branding abortion-as-murder. If a fetus is miscarried, can “host” be arrested for involuntary manslaughter?
And while we’re at it, if the fetus is human, will they get a social secruity number? And if that fetus miscarries, can the mother claim a social security death benefit?
Bookworm almost 5 years ago
As stated, the answer to the question is B. But only until birth, when if the child is female, the answer is “None Of The Above.”
A# 466 almost 5 years ago
Experimental science has established that an entity’s genome defines what kind of organism it is. The human zygote, embryo, or fetus are all entities with a complete human genome. They are all human beings, albeit immature ones at different stages of development. As it develops, both before and for years after birth, the earliest human being retains its genome, essentially unchanged. Nor does it ever turn into some other kind of entity during its existence.
(As an example of these facts, please consider this scenario: Suppose you want to grow pumpkins. You might buy the seeds at the garden shop. What would you think if the salesperson told you that the seeds weren’t guaranteed to grow pumpkins, that they might produce some other kind of plant, say, oak trees, instead. You’d probably wonder what he’d been smoking or conclude he was crazy. Well the pumpkin seed contains a pumpkin embryo and, when nurtured properly develops into a mature pumpkin vine. Likewise, a human embryo, when nurtured properly develops into a mature human being. I am ignoring accidents and genetic interferences such as CRISPR here!)
Constitutional “personhood” of a human zygote, embryo, or fetus is open to argument. But because all those entities possess a complete human genome they are all human beings, innocent ones in fact. Since the temporal event of birth does not cause an essential change in the kind of thing a fetus is, it has the same right to life before it’s born (and then clearly becomes a Constitutionally protected “person”) as does its mother. To paraphrase Abe Lincoln (on slavery): If abortion isn’t wrong, then nothing is wrong. On the other hand, if by the strictest Constitutional “interpretation” (an oxymoron to be sure) we make the case that birth does cause an essential change in the kind of thing a fetus is (from non-person to person vis-a-vis the Constitution), then the whole abortion debate is mooted; there is no objection to any abortion prior to birth.
lonecat almost 5 years ago
If a fetus is a pre-birth baby, then we are all pre-death corpses.
NobodyAwesome Premium Member almost 5 years ago
I still fail to see how the party that is so vehemently pro-life, is also anti-vaccination and pro-war. Moreover, they want guns in every class room and cut social-security, educational & health benefits. I do not have the mental or moral flexibility to reconcile all those in one value system.
Radish the wordsmith almost 5 years ago
Under Republican law, A can be put to death for putting B to death.
ideations almost 5 years ago
Why is this even an issue….again?
kentmarx36 almost 5 years ago
Under the RepubliCONS, all rights belong to white males.
Addled Brain almost 5 years ago
In Alabama, dead people have more control over their bodies than do women and girls.
magicwalnut Premium Member almost 5 years ago
As I said when this issue first came up, Alabamian women should withhold sex until this law is changed.
Richard S Russell Premium Member almost 5 years ago
Missing from the list of options is a large, faceless, mindless, conscienceless artificial entity called a corporation. Conservatives think those are people, too — people with more rights than you and me, because they’re potentially immortal, can’t be imprisoned, and are allowed to own their own Congressmen.
Librarylady almost 5 years ago
These past years since the GOP has come into its own (insanity) have been stunning. I did not realize how many men have absolutely no idea about the development of a zygote to a blastocyst to an embryo to a fetus to delivery when the fetus breathes on its own and is a baby human being. Or the “workings” of women’s insides. Ignorance is most certainly not bliss.
Richard S Russell Premium Member almost 5 years ago
The self-proclaimed pro-life* crowd is entirely too obsessive about the imaginary people they claim to be concerned about. They need to calm down, switch off their circuit diagrams, get out of their blueprints, sit in the shade of their acorns, listen to the pleasant songs of the eggs, and stop to smell the pollen.
––––––
*short for “proliferators”
wiatr almost 5 years ago
According to some it is most certainly not A. The pro-lifers want to keep women from being anything more than breeders. I find this reprehensible and disgusting.
Concretionist almost 5 years ago
“B” but only until birth.
Addled Brain almost 5 years ago
“*short for ‘proliferators’” — Richard S Russell
+1