Actually, it wasn’t even much of a religious holiday in America until the 19th century. Christians stole most of it from the cult of Mithras, which originated in Persia but had a following in Rome.
“To what, then, can I compare the people of this generation? What are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling out to each other:
” ‘We played the flute for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge,
and you did not cry.’
Luke 7:31-32
Oooh, and for those of you demanding a personal appearance, you will have one, just not on your own terms.
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11
“Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to [Jesus], ‘Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you.’ He answered, ‘A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here’ ” (Matthew 12:38-41).
Jesus said this to people who had already seen him heal the sick and raise the dead. No proof or sign or appearance will convince someone who doesn’t want to believe. But that’s why it’s called ‘belief,’ b/c one has the option to reject any idea, even one’s -own- existence. Food for thought.
Sometime seein is believing, sometimes believing is seeing! And then again, I’m told my social security cash is in a lock box somewhere… I’ll believe that when I see it! ;(
Judgment, judgment, judgment. I like all the scripture quotations. It’s too bad it’s not okay with the quoters that anyone question God. I thought God was big enough to handle folks who were searching for Truth. After all, he did it for Paul.
Show me where I passed judgment, DesultoryPhillipic. If I stand in a place in my life where I see Christians who use Scripture more to be mean than to be kind, is that a judgment or an observation?
This very ‘rational’ argument is a good example of wooly thinking
——————————————–
DesultoryPhillipic says:
Are you saying that Jesus never existed? If that’s so, then you probably believe the holocaust was a myth also!
——————————————–
Come on! If you are going to be mean, you should at least try to base your insults on the facts available. No where do they mention anything about thier views on the Nazi attitude to the Jews and further more there is no connection between the two subjects. Besides it’s not very christian to imply that people you know nothing about are antisemitic, that’s very judgemental, which is as I understand it the domain of your god not his subjects… Looks like you could be on your way to somewhere nice and warm for that attitude (unless you are of the catholic persuasion then you will probably just ask to be forgiven)
If God is an element unknown to human reason, and one comes to His existence only through a leap of faith, then how can a mortal man judge another for either accepting or rejecting the notion of His existence? One cannot, for that would be the very antithesis of reason.
Oh how I love the irony of this…….. I was thinking the very same thing Elwoodman, especially since there has been the predictable flurry of rhetoric that followed your opening post.
To all those who forget this IS just a comic strip and your comments are just 1’s and 0’s in an electrostatic cloud (something akin to put your hand in a bucket of water, then pull it out and see how much of an impression you have left), here’s a little verse for you: {to be accompanied by a catchy rythym played on tambourine and timbales}
Oh Jesus Jesus
Come and please us
For we are your faithful….. ahhh nevermind.
“Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God exists… If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists.” – Blaise Pascal
“God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves?” – Frederich Nietzche
Ah, Calvin, you’ve taken one of your first intellectual steps toward enlightenment. It actually chokes me up a little bit. Our little guy is growing up!
More and more people are having the courage to ask the same questions and not just blindly accept what comes out of books of mythology.
On a serious note, when historians look back on the invention of the Internet, it will be noted that it’s biggest influence was making atheism the dominant worldview. The biggest thing young people need to cast off the shackles of religion are examples of other people who have done it.
To bring this back to C&H, think how remarkable this comic strip. It’s a COMIC STRIP questioning God! Imagine such a thing back in the 1900s or even 1950s. Now it’s amusing, but back then it would have been shocking to the core.
Religion will never be completely dead, of course, but I predict that by 2050, the non-believers will outnumber the believers.
Interestingly enough, that is what Christmas is all about. God became a man, lived as a man, died as a man with our sin on Him and rose again from the dead, conquering sin and death so that all who believe in Him and receive Him could be with God for all eternity.The mystery is revealed to all who will believe
@jcmarshall2 – Actually, what Christmas was “really” all about was the priests wanting to create a holiday in competition with the Pagan festival of Yule.
The birthday of Jesus is so important to God that the bible never mentions it, except to drop hints that it was in the spring.
So from a strict literal biblical point of view, Christmas is not religious at all, and in fact it might be considered a mockery of God, since we absolutely know it’s the wrong day of Jesus’s birth, and the original motivation for celebration was not even Jesus.
[I know, I know, trying to apply logic and reason to religion is futile, even in support of glorifying God.]
Afriend said “God does not exist.” I said, “Suppose you are right. Live a good life anyway, then if you are wrong, you may apologise and not be subject to severe penalty.”
I beg to differ on the origins of Christmas, Nairebis, if I may.
You said, “Actually, what Christmas was “really” all about was the priests wanting to create a holiday in competition with the Pagan festival of Yule….”
Yes, perhaps it was assigned to match the time of Saturnalia. What choice did the Christians have but to disguise their holidays under pagan feasts, since they were under threat of death? Another reason for giving Jesus the December birthdate, when the Gospel of Luke (shepherd in the fields during lambing in the spring, not in winter) was what John the Baptist said, “He must increase while I must decrease.” So John’s birthday is celebrated when the sun’s light begins to decrease (June 24) while Jesus is with the increase (Dec. 25), just six months apart, as Luke says.
As for taking over the rituals of Mithras, or Saturnalia, it has also been said that today’s feast of Candlemas/the Presentation of Jesus in the Temple is modeled after the Lupercalia (in the Encyclopedia Britannica, no less). Let’s see… a feast that is timed according to the Law of Moses (40 days for purification after giving birth, as this is the 40th day from Christmas), in which the images are given in the Gospel as light and glory (see Simeon’s Canticle), modeled after a group of upper class youths running around Rome with blood on their forehead causing havoc after sacrificing a dog and a goat? Yes, lots of similarity there! Rather, again, it was providential that there was another pagan feast to provide cover, but the Christians who wanted to celebrate and remember their history and the life of their founder did not “create” it in competition with the Lupercalia, any more than Christmas was to compete with the Saturnalia. They wanted more to celebrate Jesus. And, it came about from a demand of the laity. The priests would have preferred to stress Easter with its vigil. At Rome, Christmas was quite low key for several centuries, until into the Dark Ages. In fact, in the early books, it’s the feast of the Martyr and Virgin Anastasia, if I remember correctly.
Further, over the centuries, it snowballed. Gifts were given on the Epiphany, since that’s when the coming of the Magi with their gifts was celebrated. St. Nicholas, celebrated December 6th, also gave gifts; he came (through the Dutch) as Sinter Klaus, or Santa, and was added to Chrismas, often for commercial reasons.
So, yes, it was once a religious holiday. In a way, I’m not sad that we anticipate Christmas so much, from Thanksgiving to (maybe, if we are lucky) December 25. Perhaps, having gotten the secular and commercial out of the way, we who believe can properly celebrate again the coming of our Savior, taking on our human nature to be with us and make us divine through him.
I apologize for the length of this monologue, but I have tried to clear up a few historical misconceptions.
Wow - seems this strip becomes more complex with reading over the ages. I wonder if this is how religions get started in the first place.
And now, a musical interlude from Todd Rundgren (from his Liars album - buy extras to share with friends)…
God Said
Nearly everyone I know claims to have heard your voice
And every time they do, I know I should rejoice
Because one day I’m sure you’ll break your silence
And speak just to me
But I feel like time’s running out
My heart is, my heart is filling with doubt
And god said…
I don’t dwell upon you, I dwell on something else
I am not really here, so get over yourself
I’ve tried to follow every rule they said you handed down
And spread the sacred testimony all around
But still the others seem to have your ear but never will I
Have I displeased you somehow?
Can’t help, can’t help feeling left out
And god said…
There’s no anger in me, you must mean someone else
Cause it’s not me that you see, you’re looking at yourself
And I won’t give you a prize instead of someone else
Cause I don’t play favorites, so get over yourself
Just get over yourself
Is it my fear, is it my pride, is it my vanity?
Should your name just be denied to save my sanity?
What is the price I need to pay to have what others seem to grasp so easily?
Pity your servant your slave
Who’ll kiss, who’ll kiss your feet to be saved
Save me, save me
God said…
You are not serving me, you’re serving something else
Cause I don’t need to be pleased, just get over yourself
You can’t suck up, up to me, I know you all too well
But I don’t dwell upon you, so get over yourself
Cause you’re not praying to me, you’re praying to yourself
And you’re not worshipping me, you’re worshipping yourself
And you will kill in my name and heaven knows what else
When you can’t prove I exist, so get over yourself
Just get over yourself
Label: SANCTUARY CLASSIC
Copyright: 2004 ALCHEMEDIA PRODUCTIONS INC SUBLICENSED EXCLUSIVELY TO SANCTUARY RECORDS GROUP INC UNDER EXCLUSIVE LICENSE TO SANCTUARY RECORDS GROUP LTD
If the metric of what to believe is fear of being wrong, then the way to bet is with the Egyptian god Ra. He predates the Abrahamic God by thousands of years. And worshipping him didn’t do too bad for the Ancient Egyptians, considering they had one of the most powerful civilizations in history.
Of course, if you like morality, then I would say the Greek Gods would be the better bet. They were (probably) created about the same time as the Abrahamic God, but the ancient Greeks achieved an incredible level of civilization and planted the seeds of moral government that we still study and use today.
Christianity is a relatively “newfangled” religion. It hasn’t really accomplished much, comparatively speaking, to the cultures that worshiped other Gods (though it has created some nice gold-drenched cathedrals).
So if Pascal is right, we’d all better set up our shrine to Ra and Zeus. Hmm, better include Athena as well, she has a notoriously bad temper at being disrespected.
Seems the religious ones do draw the most comments. Though it’s sad that it creates arguments. I will only add one little comment of my own. “If you’re living like there’s no God, you’d better be right.”
Show me where I passed judgment, DesultoryPhillipic.
It’s too bad it’s not okay with the quoters that anyone question God.
There’s your judgmental statement.
DreamScourge says:
Come on! If you are going to be mean, you should at least try to base your insults on the facts available.
Just carrying things to their logical extreme, bud. Besides, I qualified my remark with the word “probably”, which is more than I can say about your (lack of good) judgment
I have voiced my opinion enough on this site re my Christian beliefs. I would merely suggest that all read your KING JAMES VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. Go to the following scriptures in this order if you please: John 11:25-26; Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:8-12; and 1 Peter 1:5. There is much more I could share with you, but won’t. If you don’t believe in God, there are two possibilities. One is that you’re right, and you can be re-incarnated, become a wood nymph, a cow , a flower, or whatever else you choose to convince yourself that you can be. Or, conversely, you can believe that you will simply cease to exist, SO GET IT ALL IN NOW! However, if you are wrong, God is a LOVING and a RIGHTEOUS God. You WILL be condemned to an everlasting lake of fire. Revelation 20:15. Hope you bring your sunscreen!
In 336 A.D. the Catholic church declared December 25th to be the date of Jesus’ birth. They did this in order to replace the pagan holiday, Saturnalia. The pagans celebrated Dec 25th in honor of their “sun” god and the Catholics began to celebrate Dec 25 in honor of the “Son” of God.
Jesus was 30 years old when He began His ministry. He was 33 ½ when He was crucified on Passover, a Spring holiday (He was the Passover Lamb). So if we count back 6 months (for the ½ year) that would put the time of His birth in the Fall. A significant holiday during the Fall is the Feast of Tabernacles (or Sukkot), a seven day observance. Some people believe that Jesus was born during that week.
After Jesus returns to set up His kingdom here (on the Mount of Olives), Zechariah 14 tells us that only one festival will be celebrated by the faithful of all the nations. That festival is the Feast of Tabernacles. This feast is celebrated now by some as it pertains to being watchful for Jesus’ return.
P.S. There is no “everlasting” fire. The wicked will be consumed by fire until they are no more. The Bible translators didn’t always use the best definition in some cases, especially in this case.
When I was a kid and my mom told me about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, I asked her when she was going to tell me about God. She assured me that God was real, but not something that could be easily put into description. She was a deep thinker about these things, and I followed in those footsteps, and am still doing so many years later.
carmy-I totally agree with you. As near as we can figure it, Jesus was born sometime in what we now call October (trying to adapt heathen calendars to the method that God would have used to count days) Interestingly, as it was pointed out previously God (The Bible being His Holy Word) never tells us specifically when that blessed birth occurred. However, that is not the point. We should celebrate the “entire package” as it were, of Jesus, every day. The Birth, the Death, and the Resurrection. Without the Birth our Blessed Saviour could not have walked this Earth to teach us. Without the death, our sins could not be washed away with His blood. Without the Resurrection, we would not have God’s assurance that Christ’s sacrifice and penance for OUR sins was accepted. I will also accept your perception on the lake of fire as regards “everlasting” However, it must exist for some period of time in order for all the lost to be cast into it. That should take quite a while, if this forum is any indicator! God Bless, 1RF
How old are you. I mean Calvin is supposed to be 6.
~I understand that tongue in cheek does not always translate well through the medium of a comics board. My meaning was that I did not care to get into a religious debate, especially at 11:30 pm. How old are you?
My fave comic of all time. I had the same doubts as Calvin at about the same age and was superstition-free by 12.
Christianity is such an easy target for ridicule in part because Christians don’t seem to be able to keep their dogma straight. What does the Bible really say awaits us after death: nonexistence (as in “thou shall not PERISH but have everlasting life”) or eternal life in either heaven or hell? Frankly, either hell or oblivion is fine with me, compared to being sentenced to an eternity of boredom with “good Christians” like those who post here and elsewhere.
Really, folks, there’s no argument you can use on atheists that hasn’t already been tried and refuted countless times, so please find some other way of validating your shaky faith than haranguing nonbelievers.
SanityJane-you are totally right about your statement re atheists. As Christians we are taught to love our fellow humans, and be concerned for their eternal destiny. “Perish but have everlasting life” is our promise of spending eternity with God, and our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Likewise, your atheism is your promise of a lake of fire. Hope you like equatorial climates, because that’s just a “warm-up”! But the Good News is that it is never too late. If you accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour and acknowledge that he died for your (and my) sin, you too can have eternal life. Any questions, seek out your nearest Baptist church and they can help you before it is too late. I CARE!
1 redskins fan: Seriously now - you have such a poor grasp of Christian theology, yet you have the chutzpa to claim that something you don’t really understand is the one and only answer to everything?? Don’t you remember reading somewhere that “Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall”? (Proverbs 16:18, in case it doesn’t ring a bell.)
I was raised in the Baptist church and give it credit for helping me realize that Christianity is a scam. Since you just don’t get it, let me spell it out in the smallest available words:
I would rather spend eternity burning in a lake of fire with interesting, intelligent people like Carl Sagan than even a week in heaven with small-minded, arrogant twits such as yourself.
The comments are every bit as entertaining as the comic. I’m willing to leave those who believe they are better than the rest of us to whatever fate awaits them. I only ask that they do the same for me.
SanityJane-Unfortunately, You will be too busy screaming in agony to be able to dissect Carl Satan’s mind. Besides, your god, Satan, probably has already beat you to it. I’m very familiar with Proverbs as I read them daily, and it is not “Pride” but concern that forms my opinion. If you were raised in a Baptist environment, then I have to question the validity of that “Baptist” environment, as they certainly showed no concern for your eternal soul. Perhaps they used you for what abilities you could bring to the church, instead of nurturing your spirit. As regards your “twit” comment, I’m sure that part of your Baptist upbringing advised against name-calling. 2 Peter warns us against false prophets and false teachers that will come out of the churches. I suppose I have finally run across one. God Bless 1RF
Yes, let’s raise the level of discourse by challenging the proselytizers to stop threatening nonbelievers with eternal torture. They don’t get a pass just because they say they’re doing it out of “love [for] our fellow humans.”
(In)SanityJane- I Agree! In the spirit of peaceful discourse, did you read the comics today? I thought NonSequitur was very humorous.BTW can you explain in civil terms LULZ? Don’t get that one. Since we won’t be together after this life, let’s just get along in this one (and I’ll pray for you) Still would refer you to 2PET though
Christians, thanks for your comments. and those of you with page-long comments (you know who you are). I just have to say if Christ said the things He said and did what He did, you can logically only assume 3 things: Either he was lying the entire time, he was completely insane, or He truly was God. If he was lying, though, why did he let himself be crucified? how could someone die nailed to a cross just for a lie they made up themselves, and then forgive the killers? obviously, he was not lying. If he was crazy, though, how did he have 5000 sane, sound-minded people as followers? Crazy people don’t preach sermons powerful enough to amaze 5000 people and convert them for life. If you read John and look at what He said, you can tell he wasn’t nuts. Then, logically, Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Even more logically than ‘apes turn into people.’
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
– Marcus Aurelius
Of course, the Born Agains will probably just take this as proof I’m going to Hell, thereby completely missing the point.
@PaulAtreides: You said, “Crazy people don’t preach sermons powerful enough to amaze 5000 people and convert them for life.”
To be a bit more serious here… Tragically, you are very, very wrong. And he converted them literally “for life”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
There’s actually a tape you can find if you Google around of Jim Jones last sermon, telling everyone they needed to commit suicide. The power of religion is very, very strong to make people do things.
History is loaded with maniacs who convinced people to follow them. I think with a few minutes of thought, you can probably come up with your own examples, both religious sects and political movements.
Nairebis-unfortuntely for your perception of salvation; it is through Grace not Works. Therefore the only prayer that will save anyone is the prayer of acceptance that Jesus died for all of our sins and the begging of forgiveness. No tooth fairies, no santa (Notice how easily santa can be changed to satan). Simply acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice for us on the cross, and the resurrection that signifies God’s acceptance of that sacrifice. Aranicum we see where the Roman’s belief in other gods got them. Good deeds to not bring us salvation. Salvation comes through faith by grace. Christ told us that if we believe on him we shall not perish but have eternal life.
redskins fan: The Romans got a distinct civilization spanning over 1000 years, a beacon of learning in the ancient world, and one of the fundamental bases of modern Western culture and society. I’d say they did pretty well.
And that quote isn’t even advocating following the Roman gods. It’s effectively a criticism of Pascal’s Wager and the relevance of following any deity on moral grounds.
Arcanum-I respectfully defer to your greater knowledge of the Roman Empire. I am just now re-reading “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” as a personal study, for enjoyment (Go ahead, laugh) particularly as it relates to the growth of early Christianity (sidenote to SanityJane do not sell short that which you do not know). There is no doubt the contributions the Roman empire made to modern knowledge in all aspects. Aqueducts immediately come to mind, as they provided sanitary water to many who never had it. However, my point was from a Biblical perspective. Their complete tolerance of ANY religion eventually led to God striking them down. For minor support, where are they now? Where were they in WWII. Another false god (Mussolini) was allowed to rise up, and it led to their eventual downfall. This is such a stimulating conversation for a comics page, don’t you think?
“We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”- Richard Dawkins
Seriously, if you’re going to deny the existence of thousands of gods that other people have believed in; why can’t you deny the existence of one more? Why is that so hard?
It has been my firm belief for years now that religion is the basis for everything that is wrong in this world.
Religion causes wars, genocide, fear, bigotry, and anger. It gives people false hope and a false sense of comfort.
Go to youtube and search “george carlin religion”, he makes some excellent points.
Nairebis-pointless point! You choose to select one minor aside that I stated in order to ignore the “meat” of my premise! You go Girl!
Alexielrieth-George Carlin-may he rest in H** was a potty-mouthed atheist. I care even less for his opinion than I do for InSanityJanes’s
PaulAtreides: “If religion is so evil, why did our founding fathers gaurantee its freedom in the first amendment?”
If there is one religion/denomination/sect/cult that has an irrefutable corner on the truth and salvation market, then why did the founders of our country not establish it as our national religion?
Well, I have read all these posts, some made very little sense to me! It’s a shame that this cute little strip has caused such derision! That being said, either you believe in God (which I do!) (and by the way, being a Catholic, someone made some crude comments awhile back about Catholics, WHICH I DID NOT APPRECIATE!) or you don’t believe in God! I’m certainly no one to judge others, I have enough of my own baggage, but if you non-bellievers are wrong . . , well, good luck! and going back to someone elses remark about the internet and the rise in atheism, a certain quote comes to mind! Nikita Kruchev (an atheist) said back in the 50’s, “we will bury you!” He wasn’t talking about nuclear weapons! He knew our society would become so greedy and evil, that we would bury ourselves! Man was he right!
But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task? Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.
2 Corinthians 2:14-17
“And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
Isaiah 66:24
If we believe that the new heavens and the new earth will last forever (see v.22 & 23) then we must likewise understand that the lake of fire is forever. The issue is our understanding of fairness and righteousness and right judgment, as well our the concept of time. There will not be night and day and month and year in hell, or in heaven (cf. Rev. 22:5), just “now”.
So what I want to know is when Christians will actually start living according to the Bible. Some favorite quotes:
Leviticus 20:9: “If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.”
Leviticus 20:10: “If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.”
Exodus 35:2: “For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.”
Cue the Christians coming up with all sorts of rationalizations about how this applied in the long past, but doesn’t apply now, and God wants it that way.
Note also that Leviticus is the typical book used to condemn homosexuality (“Oh, that one’s okay, but they others are obsolete”).
I love the religious! They’re so deliciously hypocritical. If you don’t follow every single word the bible exactly as God laid out, then you are a hypocrite. You either believe it all, or you don’t.
It’s pretty obvious that Bill Watterson had every intention to create this debate.
I feel sad because atheists see “miracle workers and healers” claiming to have spoken to God and such… it’s all wrong and it has nothing to do with religion.
If others can’t accept God then fine (I don’t impose my faith on anyone), but please stop expecting the world to drop its faith because it’s much stronger than you think. Surely, in this modern world we can both live peacefully.
I am continually horrified by the number of self-proclaimed Christians who would rather spew vitriol about how all those who don’t believe the way they do are going to Hell, instead of acting on the second Great Commandment. “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Show me where I passed judgment, DesultoryPhillipic. If I stand in a place in my life where I see Christians who use Scripture more to be mean than to be kind, is that a judgment or an observation?
People have been misquoting and bending the Bible to fit their needs ever since they first saw it.
I keep noticing that there usually ends up being a religious debate almost every day on here. Is it so much to ask that people just enjoy the comic strip about a boy and his tiger? It’s about a boy and his imagination. Not about setting of religious arguments.
Calvin has grasped the highly enlightened idea that gods are not real and that would mean all those spewing this god/Human hybrid Jesus bleeep around, wouldn’t impress him either.
Have to check this out. When one goes to Las Vegas they can play a game involving dice called craps. If the game comes up being called “bleeps”, I’ll get a chuckle.
Calvin will grow up to become a scientist. Though it is pretty interesting to read the arguments (most of which are with no grounds), I would like to point out that may be up to 80-90% of Scientists doubt the existence of god/whatever superpower (well I don’t know why the rest are still believers). The National Academy of Sciences (US) is made up of 94% atheists. Maybe there is link between reading and understanding scientific literature, designing machines, curing diseases, determining your calories intake, weather forecasting … and loss of Faith in God. Interestingly most of them were brought up in families of faith.
redsheri, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!! BUT SOMETIMES, YOU HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF! Go back and read my post the first few lines, yes it’s a shame this beautiful comic strip brings so much derision to some people. I have all the Calvin & Hobbes books and I laugh out loud all the time. Maybe I should just ignore these people all together. Everyone is entitled to their opinion AND WE REALY SHOULDN’T BRING THEM HERE! There are other venues out there for this stuff!
DrystyhaPro says:…I have all the Calvin & Hobbes books and I laugh out loud all the time. … Everyone is entitled to their opinion AND WE REALY SHOULDN’T BRING THEM HERE!…
My opinion is, as long as comments are related to the comic, its fine.
Comment can lead to see the comic in a different light than some people always used to do.
And for those who don’t want to think, this might be a good opportunity to at least see what others think.
Obviously, its not mandatory to read the comments if they are not to your taste.
redsheri
Calvin is a boy with imagination who makes good arguments, when he does against religion its not as direct as this one.
@ #1 Redskins fan: How can you believe in a loving God who tortures people in a lake of fire for eternity? Sounds more like a s.a.d.i.s.t to me.
@ dusoltory-phillip: I appreciate your zeal, but picking fights with people only makes thing worse. “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth makes the whole world blind and toothless”- Mahatma Ghandi
I have wondered if “Santa” is the Anti-Christ. All the myth of Santa has done is make poor children feel like they are bad, and make the rest give in to greed. “Santa” has nearly replaced the Christ Mass, or Christmas. God is God. I think He talks, if we listen, we will hear.
PaulAtriedies: “I just have to say if Christ said the things He said and did what He did, you can logically only assume 3 things: Either he was lying the entire time, he was completely insane, or He truly was God”
I think this is a false trichotomy. There is another possibility.
He was simply a fallible human who was mistaken. Why isn’t that possible? You don’t have to be crazy to be mistaken.
@TheInquisitor – the whole “Jesus lying / insane / really God” thing is a Christian cliche you may not have heard before. It makes no sense, but for whatever reason people seem to think it sounds really profound.
I’m from the land of Bhagavad Gita. In this the Hindu Lord Krishna expostulates to his disciple Arjuna that we human beings just have illusion of control over our lives and its not us that acts but the supreme being who acts through us.
We also believe in karma. Karma states that whatever we do - Good or Bad - will come back to us.
Combining these two principles if I committed murder, iwould be innocent at two levels:
God made me do it.
The person who got killed probably racked up enough ‘Bad Karma’ points, that he had it coming.
But The 10 commandments from christian theology do not support murder.
Now lets just say I led my entire life based on what the dominant religion of my land taught me. Suddenly I come into new knowlwdge, courtesy, you christians. So, for argument’ sake lets say there really is only one true god who spoke through christ. then I’m eternally damned just by virtue of being born into a land whose dominant religion is not christianity. Then how can this god person be called impartial to all his children? he created me with brown skin and then damned me for being brown.
the point is that god and religion is just a system of ‘Carrots and Sticks’ that would keep ‘the Great Average’ (read people) from going out of control. Such a system can only work by being unverifiable. If you put the texts and sub-texts of all the religions of the world together, it would make such a wonderfully F*ed up volume of baloney that the religion scam should be obvious to anyone who would but pause and think.
You fail to realize that God is still being impartial because, as you said yourself, you came into a new knowledge courtesy of the christian message. Your being born in a country that has a predominately hindu belief system has nothing to do with it but rather your acceptance or rejection of Christ’s message. I believe that if you die never having been given that option, then you’ll be judged by a different standard. What that standard might be is beyond my ability to conceive. Only God Himself knows.
So what you’re saying is that someone who lived and died as, let’s say, a native of south america 1000 years ago will be judged differently by god? There is no mention of that in the bible. In fact it explicitly states that EVERYONE will go to heaven if they believe in Jesus.
What if a person who just happened to be a christian killed someone in my family? That would be enough for me not to believe. Is that then reason enough for ME to go to hell- after all, I do not believe in Jesus. Further, if he was a christian than he would go to heaven and I would go to hell, even though it was his fault that I was not a believer.
There are too many logical fallacies in religion. There are none from an atheist’s point of view- just questions.
“You fail to realize that God is still being impartial because, as you said yourself, you came into a new knowledge courtesy of the christian message. Your being born in a country that has a predominately hindu belief system has nothing to do with it but rather your acceptance or rejection of Christ’s message. I believe that if you die never having been given that option, then you’ll be judged by a different standard. What that standard might be is beyond my ability to conceive. Only God Himself knows.”
Oh! It’s nice to know that I’m going to be judged by the system that I’m born into. I’m not going to be eternally damned after all Phew! But if everyone is going to be judged by their own system, then why spread the christian message calling it the path to true salvation? My ‘Actions’ are going to lead me to true salvation in my own system of belief right? How do you justify the billions of dollars spent each year on spreading the christian message then? huh?! huh!!? Do you feel it?!?!
Nairebis says:
“…but the ancient Greeks achieved an incredible level of civilization and planted the seeds of moral government that we still study and use today…”
“Moral Government”? Isn’t that an oxymoron? Like “Jumbo Shrimp” and “Military Intelligence”? (yes, I borrowed those from George Carlin - so sue me)
I say that going nuts over a religious debate is quite pointless. Atheists argue that there is no proof that God exists, but, if you think about it, there is no proof that God does not exist. Also, there is also no proof that this world is not just a hallucination that your brain his created. If you think about it, there really is no proof for anything. And since we seem to be unable to hold a debate if there is no proof, I say let’s just drop it and enjoy the comic.
Thank you for reading this comment and have a nice day :)
margueritem over 15 years ago
This is too deep for me…
Elwoodman over 15 years ago
Oh how I love the irony of this.
We’ve only just managed to rid this forum of religious debate when out of the annuls of history, Bill pops up with a question of his own.
Touche Mr Watterson, Touche.
jimeguess over 15 years ago
No, Mr. Watterson didn’t believe it when God showed himself 2000 years ago and he wants a personal appearance. Sigh …
wndrwrthg over 15 years ago
“Hairy Thunderer or Cosmic Muffin”, you decide.
JTRaine over 15 years ago
oh god, (ha), here comes the religious debate again.
Edcole1961 over 15 years ago
Actually, it wasn’t even much of a religious holiday in America until the 19th century. Christians stole most of it from the cult of Mithras, which originated in Persia but had a following in Rome.
Zippy007 over 15 years ago
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
John 20:29
Zippy007 over 15 years ago
“To what, then, can I compare the people of this generation? What are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling out to each other: ” ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not cry.’ Luke 7:31-32
Zippy007 over 15 years ago
Oooh, and for those of you demanding a personal appearance, you will have one, just not on your own terms.
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11
windrunner over 15 years ago
Wow Calvin…Somebody woke up on the “Deep” side of the bed this morning!!
rentier over 15 years ago
He makes himself recognizable to some people, not to all, but to some!
si_rat over 15 years ago
margueritemPro says: This is too deep for me…
How old are you. I mean Calvin is supposed to be 6.
si_rat over 15 years ago
no debate yet…
Bassa over 15 years ago
I am over here!!
wndrwrthg over 15 years ago
It is quite inane to quote the sayings of a nonexistant entity.
kiMoi over 15 years ago
hahahah, my favourite for a while
hi9 over 15 years ago
“Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to [Jesus], ‘Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you.’ He answered, ‘A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here’ ” (Matthew 12:38-41).
Jesus said this to people who had already seen him heal the sick and raise the dead. No proof or sign or appearance will convince someone who doesn’t want to believe. But that’s why it’s called ‘belief,’ b/c one has the option to reject any idea, even one’s -own- existence. Food for thought.
dbeer01 over 15 years ago
Why is December strips being shown inFeb?
Unclebup over 15 years ago
Sometime seein is believing, sometimes believing is seeing! And then again, I’m told my social security cash is in a lock box somewhere… I’ll believe that when I see it! ;(
Raven1971 over 15 years ago
Six-year olds have every right to question; organised religion can be confusing, even to adults. Rejoice, o young man, in thy youth!
Ecc. 11:19, quoted brilliantly by Oliver Stone in “Platoon”
DesultoryPhillipic over 15 years ago
wndrwrthgPro says:
It is quite inane to quote the sayings of a nonexistant entity.
Are you saying that Jesus never existed? If that’s so, then you probably believe the holocaust was a myth also!
DesultoryPhillipic over 15 years ago
And so Thinker8 passes judgment.
Thinker8 over 15 years ago
Judgment, judgment, judgment. I like all the scripture quotations. It’s too bad it’s not okay with the quoters that anyone question God. I thought God was big enough to handle folks who were searching for Truth. After all, he did it for Paul.
Thinker8 over 15 years ago
Show me where I passed judgment, DesultoryPhillipic. If I stand in a place in my life where I see Christians who use Scripture more to be mean than to be kind, is that a judgment or an observation?
SamFP over 15 years ago
Isn’t most holidays religiously connected and filled with hypocrisy and scripturally interpreted?
Ex.33:20.
t.battey over 15 years ago
Me too
tirnaaisling over 15 years ago
Ahh religeous debate, this stuff cracks me up ;)
This very ‘rational’ argument is a good example of wooly thinking
——————————————– DesultoryPhillipic says: Are you saying that Jesus never existed? If that’s so, then you probably believe the holocaust was a myth also! ——————————————–
Come on! If you are going to be mean, you should at least try to base your insults on the facts available. No where do they mention anything about thier views on the Nazi attitude to the Jews and further more there is no connection between the two subjects. Besides it’s not very christian to imply that people you know nothing about are antisemitic, that’s very judgemental, which is as I understand it the domain of your god not his subjects… Looks like you could be on your way to somewhere nice and warm for that attitude (unless you are of the catholic persuasion then you will probably just ask to be forgiven)
iknowtruthismine over 15 years ago
God is the end result of a failed search for truth by a very shallow mind.
BirishB over 15 years ago
If God is an element unknown to human reason, and one comes to His existence only through a leap of faith, then how can a mortal man judge another for either accepting or rejecting the notion of His existence? One cannot, for that would be the very antithesis of reason.
JonD17 over 15 years ago
Elwoodman says:
Oh how I love the irony of this…….. I was thinking the very same thing Elwoodman, especially since there has been the predictable flurry of rhetoric that followed your opening post. To all those who forget this IS just a comic strip and your comments are just 1’s and 0’s in an electrostatic cloud (something akin to put your hand in a bucket of water, then pull it out and see how much of an impression you have left), here’s a little verse for you: {to be accompanied by a catchy rythym played on tambourine and timbales} Oh Jesus Jesus Come and please us For we are your faithful….. ahhh nevermind.
BirishB over 15 years ago
More food for thought:
“Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God exists… If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists.” – Blaise Pascal
“God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves?” – Frederich Nietzche
Nairebis over 15 years ago
Ah, Calvin, you’ve taken one of your first intellectual steps toward enlightenment. It actually chokes me up a little bit. Our little guy is growing up!
More and more people are having the courage to ask the same questions and not just blindly accept what comes out of books of mythology.
On a serious note, when historians look back on the invention of the Internet, it will be noted that it’s biggest influence was making atheism the dominant worldview. The biggest thing young people need to cast off the shackles of religion are examples of other people who have done it.
To bring this back to C&H, think how remarkable this comic strip. It’s a COMIC STRIP questioning God! Imagine such a thing back in the 1900s or even 1950s. Now it’s amusing, but back then it would have been shocking to the core.
Religion will never be completely dead, of course, but I predict that by 2050, the non-believers will outnumber the believers.
luvfun over 15 years ago
OMG!i’m sure our smart li’ll calvin never knew he’s openin a pandoras box here with his “deep” questions!
jcmarshall2 over 15 years ago
Interestingly enough, that is what Christmas is all about. God became a man, lived as a man, died as a man with our sin on Him and rose again from the dead, conquering sin and death so that all who believe in Him and receive Him could be with God for all eternity.The mystery is revealed to all who will believe
Nairebis over 15 years ago
@jcmarshall2 – Actually, what Christmas was “really” all about was the priests wanting to create a holiday in competition with the Pagan festival of Yule.
The birthday of Jesus is so important to God that the bible never mentions it, except to drop hints that it was in the spring.
So from a strict literal biblical point of view, Christmas is not religious at all, and in fact it might be considered a mockery of God, since we absolutely know it’s the wrong day of Jesus’s birth, and the original motivation for celebration was not even Jesus.
[I know, I know, trying to apply logic and reason to religion is futile, even in support of glorifying God.]
cleokaya over 15 years ago
Hear, hear doctortoon.
aerwalt over 15 years ago
Afriend said “God does not exist.” I said, “Suppose you are right. Live a good life anyway, then if you are wrong, you may apologise and not be subject to severe penalty.”
halneufmille over 15 years ago
Kaye Jeltema: “Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish”
Wow, Jesus smoked good pot.
bmonk over 15 years ago
I beg to differ on the origins of Christmas, Nairebis, if I may.
You said, “Actually, what Christmas was “really” all about was the priests wanting to create a holiday in competition with the Pagan festival of Yule….”
Yes, perhaps it was assigned to match the time of Saturnalia. What choice did the Christians have but to disguise their holidays under pagan feasts, since they were under threat of death? Another reason for giving Jesus the December birthdate, when the Gospel of Luke (shepherd in the fields during lambing in the spring, not in winter) was what John the Baptist said, “He must increase while I must decrease.” So John’s birthday is celebrated when the sun’s light begins to decrease (June 24) while Jesus is with the increase (Dec. 25), just six months apart, as Luke says.
As for taking over the rituals of Mithras, or Saturnalia, it has also been said that today’s feast of Candlemas/the Presentation of Jesus in the Temple is modeled after the Lupercalia (in the Encyclopedia Britannica, no less). Let’s see… a feast that is timed according to the Law of Moses (40 days for purification after giving birth, as this is the 40th day from Christmas), in which the images are given in the Gospel as light and glory (see Simeon’s Canticle), modeled after a group of upper class youths running around Rome with blood on their forehead causing havoc after sacrificing a dog and a goat? Yes, lots of similarity there! Rather, again, it was providential that there was another pagan feast to provide cover, but the Christians who wanted to celebrate and remember their history and the life of their founder did not “create” it in competition with the Lupercalia, any more than Christmas was to compete with the Saturnalia. They wanted more to celebrate Jesus. And, it came about from a demand of the laity. The priests would have preferred to stress Easter with its vigil. At Rome, Christmas was quite low key for several centuries, until into the Dark Ages. In fact, in the early books, it’s the feast of the Martyr and Virgin Anastasia, if I remember correctly.
Further, over the centuries, it snowballed. Gifts were given on the Epiphany, since that’s when the coming of the Magi with their gifts was celebrated. St. Nicholas, celebrated December 6th, also gave gifts; he came (through the Dutch) as Sinter Klaus, or Santa, and was added to Chrismas, often for commercial reasons.
So, yes, it was once a religious holiday. In a way, I’m not sad that we anticipate Christmas so much, from Thanksgiving to (maybe, if we are lucky) December 25. Perhaps, having gotten the secular and commercial out of the way, we who believe can properly celebrate again the coming of our Savior, taking on our human nature to be with us and make us divine through him.
I apologize for the length of this monologue, but I have tried to clear up a few historical misconceptions.
Northwoodser over 15 years ago
If you don’t believe in God, you’d better hope he’s forgiving.
IGoPogo2 over 15 years ago
Wow - seems this strip becomes more complex with reading over the ages. I wonder if this is how religions get started in the first place.
And now, a musical interlude from Todd Rundgren (from his Liars album - buy extras to share with friends)…
God Said
Nearly everyone I know claims to have heard your voice And every time they do, I know I should rejoice Because one day I’m sure you’ll break your silence And speak just to me But I feel like time’s running out My heart is, my heart is filling with doubt
And god said…
I don’t dwell upon you, I dwell on something else I am not really here, so get over yourself
I’ve tried to follow every rule they said you handed down And spread the sacred testimony all around But still the others seem to have your ear but never will I Have I displeased you somehow? Can’t help, can’t help feeling left out
And god said…
There’s no anger in me, you must mean someone else Cause it’s not me that you see, you’re looking at yourself And I won’t give you a prize instead of someone else Cause I don’t play favorites, so get over yourself
Just get over yourself
Is it my fear, is it my pride, is it my vanity? Should your name just be denied to save my sanity? What is the price I need to pay to have what others seem to grasp so easily? Pity your servant your slave Who’ll kiss, who’ll kiss your feet to be saved Save me, save me
God said…
You are not serving me, you’re serving something else Cause I don’t need to be pleased, just get over yourself You can’t suck up, up to me, I know you all too well But I don’t dwell upon you, so get over yourself Cause you’re not praying to me, you’re praying to yourself And you’re not worshipping me, you’re worshipping yourself And you will kill in my name and heaven knows what else When you can’t prove I exist, so get over yourself
Just get over yourself
Label: SANCTUARY CLASSIC Copyright: 2004 ALCHEMEDIA PRODUCTIONS INC SUBLICENSED EXCLUSIVELY TO SANCTUARY RECORDS GROUP INC UNDER EXCLUSIVE LICENSE TO SANCTUARY RECORDS GROUP LTD
txmystic over 15 years ago
Beer is proof that God exists, and that He loves us…
Nairebis over 15 years ago
If the metric of what to believe is fear of being wrong, then the way to bet is with the Egyptian god Ra. He predates the Abrahamic God by thousands of years. And worshipping him didn’t do too bad for the Ancient Egyptians, considering they had one of the most powerful civilizations in history.
Of course, if you like morality, then I would say the Greek Gods would be the better bet. They were (probably) created about the same time as the Abrahamic God, but the ancient Greeks achieved an incredible level of civilization and planted the seeds of moral government that we still study and use today.
Christianity is a relatively “newfangled” religion. It hasn’t really accomplished much, comparatively speaking, to the cultures that worshiped other Gods (though it has created some nice gold-drenched cathedrals).
So if Pascal is right, we’d all better set up our shrine to Ra and Zeus. Hmm, better include Athena as well, she has a notoriously bad temper at being disrespected.
JonD17 over 15 years ago
“I spoke to God and God said to me: Don’t ask me what I think of you “cuz I might not tell ya waht ya want me to…… Oh well……… Fleetwood Mack 1968
Teageek over 15 years ago
Lord, do I miss this strip. This is my altime favorite.
alondra over 15 years ago
Seems the religious ones do draw the most comments. Though it’s sad that it creates arguments. I will only add one little comment of my own. “If you’re living like there’s no God, you’d better be right.”
DesultoryPhillipic over 15 years ago
Thinker8 says:
Show me where I passed judgment, DesultoryPhillipic.
It’s too bad it’s not okay with the quoters that anyone question God. There’s your judgmental statement.
DreamScourge says: Come on! If you are going to be mean, you should at least try to base your insults on the facts available.
Just carrying things to their logical extreme, bud. Besides, I qualified my remark with the word “probably”, which is more than I can say about your (lack of good) judgment
briankblough over 15 years ago
I have voiced my opinion enough on this site re my Christian beliefs. I would merely suggest that all read your KING JAMES VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. Go to the following scriptures in this order if you please: John 11:25-26; Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:8-12; and 1 Peter 1:5. There is much more I could share with you, but won’t. If you don’t believe in God, there are two possibilities. One is that you’re right, and you can be re-incarnated, become a wood nymph, a cow , a flower, or whatever else you choose to convince yourself that you can be. Or, conversely, you can believe that you will simply cease to exist, SO GET IT ALL IN NOW! However, if you are wrong, God is a LOVING and a RIGHTEOUS God. You WILL be condemned to an everlasting lake of fire. Revelation 20:15. Hope you bring your sunscreen!
lazygrazer over 15 years ago
Notice how the mention of “God” stirs things up bigtime no matter where we go.
To me, that’s proof positive that something pretty big, deep and powerful is nagging at every one of us one way or another.
What, besides God, could manage to do such a thing?
carmy over 15 years ago
In 336 A.D. the Catholic church declared December 25th to be the date of Jesus’ birth. They did this in order to replace the pagan holiday, Saturnalia. The pagans celebrated Dec 25th in honor of their “sun” god and the Catholics began to celebrate Dec 25 in honor of the “Son” of God. Jesus was 30 years old when He began His ministry. He was 33 ½ when He was crucified on Passover, a Spring holiday (He was the Passover Lamb). So if we count back 6 months (for the ½ year) that would put the time of His birth in the Fall. A significant holiday during the Fall is the Feast of Tabernacles (or Sukkot), a seven day observance. Some people believe that Jesus was born during that week. After Jesus returns to set up His kingdom here (on the Mount of Olives), Zechariah 14 tells us that only one festival will be celebrated by the faithful of all the nations. That festival is the Feast of Tabernacles. This feast is celebrated now by some as it pertains to being watchful for Jesus’ return.
P.S. There is no “everlasting” fire. The wicked will be consumed by fire until they are no more. The Bible translators didn’t always use the best definition in some cases, especially in this case.
carmy over 15 years ago
pookid, I am the Lizard Queen? hee hee, but you look like a groundhog.
chromosome Premium Member over 15 years ago
When I was a kid and my mom told me about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, I asked her when she was going to tell me about God. She assured me that God was real, but not something that could be easily put into description. She was a deep thinker about these things, and I followed in those footsteps, and am still doing so many years later.
briankblough over 15 years ago
carmy-I totally agree with you. As near as we can figure it, Jesus was born sometime in what we now call October (trying to adapt heathen calendars to the method that God would have used to count days) Interestingly, as it was pointed out previously God (The Bible being His Holy Word) never tells us specifically when that blessed birth occurred. However, that is not the point. We should celebrate the “entire package” as it were, of Jesus, every day. The Birth, the Death, and the Resurrection. Without the Birth our Blessed Saviour could not have walked this Earth to teach us. Without the death, our sins could not be washed away with His blood. Without the Resurrection, we would not have God’s assurance that Christ’s sacrifice and penance for OUR sins was accepted. I will also accept your perception on the lake of fire as regards “everlasting” However, it must exist for some period of time in order for all the lost to be cast into it. That should take quite a while, if this forum is any indicator! God Bless, 1RF
margueritem over 15 years ago
si_rat says:
margueritemPro says: This is too deep for me…
How old are you. I mean Calvin is supposed to be 6.
~I understand that tongue in cheek does not always translate well through the medium of a comics board. My meaning was that I did not care to get into a religious debate, especially at 11:30 pm. How old are you?
SanityJane over 15 years ago
My fave comic of all time. I had the same doubts as Calvin at about the same age and was superstition-free by 12.
Christianity is such an easy target for ridicule in part because Christians don’t seem to be able to keep their dogma straight. What does the Bible really say awaits us after death: nonexistence (as in “thou shall not PERISH but have everlasting life”) or eternal life in either heaven or hell? Frankly, either hell or oblivion is fine with me, compared to being sentenced to an eternity of boredom with “good Christians” like those who post here and elsewhere.
Really, folks, there’s no argument you can use on atheists that hasn’t already been tried and refuted countless times, so please find some other way of validating your shaky faith than haranguing nonbelievers.
watsduo over 15 years ago
Calvin’s a lot brighter than he realizes.
carmy over 15 years ago
1RF, thank you. I agree with what you have posted as well. God’s blessings to you and yours.
briankblough over 15 years ago
SanityJane-you are totally right about your statement re atheists. As Christians we are taught to love our fellow humans, and be concerned for their eternal destiny. “Perish but have everlasting life” is our promise of spending eternity with God, and our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Likewise, your atheism is your promise of a lake of fire. Hope you like equatorial climates, because that’s just a “warm-up”! But the Good News is that it is never too late. If you accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour and acknowledge that he died for your (and my) sin, you too can have eternal life. Any questions, seek out your nearest Baptist church and they can help you before it is too late. I CARE!
briankblough over 15 years ago
carmy-thank you and God Bless you as well. We shall meet, if not now, then certainly in the future! <:-)
tabbylynn over 15 years ago
im staying out of this one.
carmy over 15 years ago
hewie2 says:
Calvin’s a lot brighter than he realizes.
I agree with that. I love panel 4 showing Hobbes’ little puff of breath, because he’s REAL.
SanityJane over 15 years ago
1 redskins fan: Seriously now - you have such a poor grasp of Christian theology, yet you have the chutzpa to claim that something you don’t really understand is the one and only answer to everything?? Don’t you remember reading somewhere that “Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall”? (Proverbs 16:18, in case it doesn’t ring a bell.)
I was raised in the Baptist church and give it credit for helping me realize that Christianity is a scam. Since you just don’t get it, let me spell it out in the smallest available words:
I would rather spend eternity burning in a lake of fire with interesting, intelligent people like Carl Sagan than even a week in heaven with small-minded, arrogant twits such as yourself.
esconopeles65 over 15 years ago
The comments are every bit as entertaining as the comic. I’m willing to leave those who believe they are better than the rest of us to whatever fate awaits them. I only ask that they do the same for me.
briankblough over 15 years ago
SanityJane-Unfortunately, You will be too busy screaming in agony to be able to dissect Carl Satan’s mind. Besides, your god, Satan, probably has already beat you to it. I’m very familiar with Proverbs as I read them daily, and it is not “Pride” but concern that forms my opinion. If you were raised in a Baptist environment, then I have to question the validity of that “Baptist” environment, as they certainly showed no concern for your eternal soul. Perhaps they used you for what abilities you could bring to the church, instead of nurturing your spirit. As regards your “twit” comment, I’m sure that part of your Baptist upbringing advised against name-calling. 2 Peter warns us against false prophets and false teachers that will come out of the churches. I suppose I have finally run across one. God Bless 1RF
SanityJane over 15 years ago
IGoPogo2 over 15 years ago
Well folks - we’ve gone from discussing C&H to dogma/theology to outright rude and nasty behavior.
How about we keep this civil and not try to take an opposing viewpoint as a personal affront?
SanityJane over 15 years ago
Yes, let’s raise the level of discourse by challenging the proselytizers to stop threatening nonbelievers with eternal torture. They don’t get a pass just because they say they’re doing it out of “love [for] our fellow humans.”
briankblough over 15 years ago
(In)SanityJane- I Agree! In the spirit of peaceful discourse, did you read the comics today? I thought NonSequitur was very humorous.BTW can you explain in civil terms LULZ? Don’t get that one. Since we won’t be together after this life, let’s just get along in this one (and I’ll pray for you) Still would refer you to 2PET though
PaulAtreides over 15 years ago
Christians, thanks for your comments. and those of you with page-long comments (you know who you are). I just have to say if Christ said the things He said and did what He did, you can logically only assume 3 things: Either he was lying the entire time, he was completely insane, or He truly was God. If he was lying, though, why did he let himself be crucified? how could someone die nailed to a cross just for a lie they made up themselves, and then forgive the killers? obviously, he was not lying. If he was crazy, though, how did he have 5000 sane, sound-minded people as followers? Crazy people don’t preach sermons powerful enough to amaze 5000 people and convert them for life. If you read John and look at what He said, you can tell he wasn’t nuts. Then, logically, Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Even more logically than ‘apes turn into people.’
Nairebis over 15 years ago
Okay, so let me see if I have this straight…
He’s making a list, and checking it twice… and if you’re naughty, the Loving Santa casts you into an eternal lake of fire?
Uh, God wants to give us coal in our stocking, unless we pray for presents… wait…
No, no, praying to Santa via a letter to the post office will cure cancer, but won’t cure amputees, because Santa hates amputees…
Wait! I’ve got it! Putting a tooth under my pillow for God will cause Santa to make my football team win.
I’m confused…
Arcanum over 15 years ago
My favorite quote about religion:
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” – Marcus Aurelius
Of course, the Born Agains will probably just take this as proof I’m going to Hell, thereby completely missing the point.
briankblough over 15 years ago
PaulAtriedes-thank you for expressing what (IN)SanityJane seems to feel I can not express as eloquently. God Bless
Nairebis over 15 years ago
@PaulAtreides: You said, “Crazy people don’t preach sermons powerful enough to amaze 5000 people and convert them for life.”
To be a bit more serious here… Tragically, you are very, very wrong. And he converted them literally “for life”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
There’s actually a tape you can find if you Google around of Jim Jones last sermon, telling everyone they needed to commit suicide. The power of religion is very, very strong to make people do things.
History is loaded with maniacs who convinced people to follow them. I think with a few minutes of thought, you can probably come up with your own examples, both religious sects and political movements.
briankblough over 15 years ago
Nairebis-unfortuntely for your perception of salvation; it is through Grace not Works. Therefore the only prayer that will save anyone is the prayer of acceptance that Jesus died for all of our sins and the begging of forgiveness. No tooth fairies, no santa (Notice how easily santa can be changed to satan). Simply acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice for us on the cross, and the resurrection that signifies God’s acceptance of that sacrifice. Aranicum we see where the Roman’s belief in other gods got them. Good deeds to not bring us salvation. Salvation comes through faith by grace. Christ told us that if we believe on him we shall not perish but have eternal life.
darwin4139 over 15 years ago
You are all crazy! crazy, you believe what you want and I’ll believe what I want and people should allow others to decide by themselves.
Arcanum over 15 years ago
redskins fan: The Romans got a distinct civilization spanning over 1000 years, a beacon of learning in the ancient world, and one of the fundamental bases of modern Western culture and society. I’d say they did pretty well.
And that quote isn’t even advocating following the Roman gods. It’s effectively a criticism of Pascal’s Wager and the relevance of following any deity on moral grounds.
Nairebis over 15 years ago
@Redskins Fan: you said, “Notice how easily santa can be changed to satan.”
Indeed. And look how easily “Jesus Christ” can be turned into: “I Crush Jests”.
And even more easily how “Jesus Christ God” can be turned into “Jugs Host Ciders”, “Cursed Jig Shots”… and my favorite, “Coeds Shirt Jugs”.
Make you think, my friend. Makes you think.
briankblough over 15 years ago
Arcanum-I respectfully defer to your greater knowledge of the Roman Empire. I am just now re-reading “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” as a personal study, for enjoyment (Go ahead, laugh) particularly as it relates to the growth of early Christianity (sidenote to SanityJane do not sell short that which you do not know). There is no doubt the contributions the Roman empire made to modern knowledge in all aspects. Aqueducts immediately come to mind, as they provided sanitary water to many who never had it. However, my point was from a Biblical perspective. Their complete tolerance of ANY religion eventually led to God striking them down. For minor support, where are they now? Where were they in WWII. Another false god (Mussolini) was allowed to rise up, and it led to their eventual downfall. This is such a stimulating conversation for a comics page, don’t you think?
alexielrieth over 15 years ago
“We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”- Richard Dawkins Seriously, if you’re going to deny the existence of thousands of gods that other people have believed in; why can’t you deny the existence of one more? Why is that so hard? It has been my firm belief for years now that religion is the basis for everything that is wrong in this world. Religion causes wars, genocide, fear, bigotry, and anger. It gives people false hope and a false sense of comfort. Go to youtube and search “george carlin religion”, he makes some excellent points.
briankblough over 15 years ago
Nairebis-pointless point! You choose to select one minor aside that I stated in order to ignore the “meat” of my premise! You go Girl! Alexielrieth-George Carlin-may he rest in H** was a potty-mouthed atheist. I care even less for his opinion than I do for InSanityJanes’s
SanityJane over 15 years ago
“George Carlin-may he rest in H** was a potty-mouthed atheist. I care even less for his opinion than I do for InSanityJanes’s”
That is a stunning compliment, and I thank you most sincerely, though I truly am not worthy to be mentioned in the same sentence as George Carlin!
PaulAtreides over 15 years ago
…anyone want to discuss Dilbert now?
SanityJane over 15 years ago
PaulAtreides: “If religion is so evil, why did our founding fathers gaurantee its freedom in the first amendment?”
If there is one religion/denomination/sect/cult that has an irrefutable corner on the truth and salvation market, then why did the founders of our country not establish it as our national religion?
PaulAtreides over 15 years ago
If religion is so evil, why did our founding fathers gaurantee its freedom in the first amendment?
Dry and Dusty Premium Member over 15 years ago
Well, I have read all these posts, some made very little sense to me! It’s a shame that this cute little strip has caused such derision! That being said, either you believe in God (which I do!) (and by the way, being a Catholic, someone made some crude comments awhile back about Catholics, WHICH I DID NOT APPRECIATE!) or you don’t believe in God! I’m certainly no one to judge others, I have enough of my own baggage, but if you non-bellievers are wrong . . , well, good luck! and going back to someone elses remark about the internet and the rise in atheism, a certain quote comes to mind! Nikita Kruchev (an atheist) said back in the 50’s, “we will bury you!” He wasn’t talking about nuclear weapons! He knew our society would become so greedy and evil, that we would bury ourselves! Man was he right!
Zippy007 over 15 years ago
But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task? Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God. 2 Corinthians 2:14-17
Zippy007 over 15 years ago
“And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
Isaiah 66:24
If we believe that the new heavens and the new earth will last forever (see v.22 & 23) then we must likewise understand that the lake of fire is forever. The issue is our understanding of fairness and righteousness and right judgment, as well our the concept of time. There will not be night and day and month and year in hell, or in heaven (cf. Rev. 22:5), just “now”.
esconopeles65 over 15 years ago
““Crazy people don’t preach sermons powerful enough to amaze 5000 people and convert them for life.””
I assume you are including Adolf Hitler among those who have not amazed 5000 people and converted them for life. Would that it had only been 5000!
lazygrazer over 15 years ago
Why do you Christians spend so much time, money and chatter trying to help, defend and save the very God you claim helps, defends and saves YOU??
Follow His Christ—not your ‘christianity’.
Nairebis over 15 years ago
So what I want to know is when Christians will actually start living according to the Bible. Some favorite quotes:
Leviticus 20:9: “If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.”
Leviticus 20:10: “If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.”
Exodus 35:2: “For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.”
Cue the Christians coming up with all sorts of rationalizations about how this applied in the long past, but doesn’t apply now, and God wants it that way.
Note also that Leviticus is the typical book used to condemn homosexuality (“Oh, that one’s okay, but they others are obsolete”).
I love the religious! They’re so deliciously hypocritical. If you don’t follow every single word the bible exactly as God laid out, then you are a hypocrite. You either believe it all, or you don’t.
green_engineer over 15 years ago
It’s pretty obvious that Bill Watterson had every intention to create this debate. I feel sad because atheists see “miracle workers and healers” claiming to have spoken to God and such… it’s all wrong and it has nothing to do with religion. If others can’t accept God then fine (I don’t impose my faith on anyone), but please stop expecting the world to drop its faith because it’s much stronger than you think. Surely, in this modern world we can both live peacefully.
Nebulous Premium Member over 15 years ago
I am continually horrified by the number of self-proclaimed Christians who would rather spew vitriol about how all those who don’t believe the way they do are going to Hell, instead of acting on the second Great Commandment. “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
alan_pae over 15 years ago
Show me where I passed judgment, DesultoryPhillipic. If I stand in a place in my life where I see Christians who use Scripture more to be mean than to be kind, is that a judgment or an observation?
People have been misquoting and bending the Bible to fit their needs ever since they first saw it.
redsheri over 15 years ago
I keep noticing that there usually ends up being a religious debate almost every day on here. Is it so much to ask that people just enjoy the comic strip about a boy and his tiger? It’s about a boy and his imagination. Not about setting of religious arguments.
iknowtruthismine over 15 years ago
Calvin has grasped the highly enlightened idea that gods are not real and that would mean all those spewing this god/Human hybrid Jesus bleeep around, wouldn’t impress him either.
iknowtruthismine over 15 years ago
Have to check this out. When one goes to Las Vegas they can play a game involving dice called craps. If the game comes up being called “bleeps”, I’ll get a chuckle.
scruffyspiff over 15 years ago
Calvin will grow up to become a scientist. Though it is pretty interesting to read the arguments (most of which are with no grounds), I would like to point out that may be up to 80-90% of Scientists doubt the existence of god/whatever superpower (well I don’t know why the rest are still believers). The National Academy of Sciences (US) is made up of 94% atheists. Maybe there is link between reading and understanding scientific literature, designing machines, curing diseases, determining your calories intake, weather forecasting … and loss of Faith in God. Interestingly most of them were brought up in families of faith.
Dry and Dusty Premium Member over 15 years ago
redsheri, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!! BUT SOMETIMES, YOU HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF! Go back and read my post the first few lines, yes it’s a shame this beautiful comic strip brings so much derision to some people. I have all the Calvin & Hobbes books and I laugh out loud all the time. Maybe I should just ignore these people all together. Everyone is entitled to their opinion AND WE REALY SHOULDN’T BRING THEM HERE! There are other venues out there for this stuff!
si_rat over 15 years ago
DrystyhaPro says:…I have all the Calvin & Hobbes books and I laugh out loud all the time. … Everyone is entitled to their opinion AND WE REALY SHOULDN’T BRING THEM HERE!…
My opinion is, as long as comments are related to the comic, its fine. Comment can lead to see the comic in a different light than some people always used to do.
And for those who don’t want to think, this might be a good opportunity to at least see what others think.
Obviously, its not mandatory to read the comments if they are not to your taste.
redsheri
Calvin is a boy with imagination who makes good arguments, when he does against religion its not as direct as this one.
d0e8r over 15 years ago
@ #1 Redskins fan: How can you believe in a loving God who tortures people in a lake of fire for eternity? Sounds more like a s.a.d.i.s.t to me.
@ dusoltory-phillip: I appreciate your zeal, but picking fights with people only makes thing worse. “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth makes the whole world blind and toothless”- Mahatma Ghandi
Northfieldgunn over 15 years ago
According to the bible. God is responsible for 2,301,417 deaths. This does not include Noahs flood. Satan has a whopping 10, which he shares with God.
teaguemj over 15 years ago
I have wondered if “Santa” is the Anti-Christ. All the myth of Santa has done is make poor children feel like they are bad, and make the rest give in to greed. “Santa” has nearly replaced the Christ Mass, or Christmas. God is God. I think He talks, if we listen, we will hear.
JonD17 over 15 years ago
JTRaine says:
oh god, (ha), here comes the religious debate again.
Does’t thou knoweth what thy spake?
TheInquisitor over 15 years ago
PaulAtriedies: “I just have to say if Christ said the things He said and did what He did, you can logically only assume 3 things: Either he was lying the entire time, he was completely insane, or He truly was God”
I think this is a false trichotomy. There is another possibility.
He was simply a fallible human who was mistaken. Why isn’t that possible? You don’t have to be crazy to be mistaken.
Nairebis over 15 years ago
@TheInquisitor – the whole “Jesus lying / insane / really God” thing is a Christian cliche you may not have heard before. It makes no sense, but for whatever reason people seem to think it sounds really profound.
coffeeturtle over 15 years ago
another wasted thread…
krisch over 15 years ago
I’m from the land of Bhagavad Gita. In this the Hindu Lord Krishna expostulates to his disciple Arjuna that we human beings just have illusion of control over our lives and its not us that acts but the supreme being who acts through us.
We also believe in karma. Karma states that whatever we do - Good or Bad - will come back to us.
Combining these two principles if I committed murder, iwould be innocent at two levels:
God made me do it. The person who got killed probably racked up enough ‘Bad Karma’ points, that he had it coming.But The 10 commandments from christian theology do not support murder.
Now lets just say I led my entire life based on what the dominant religion of my land taught me. Suddenly I come into new knowlwdge, courtesy, you christians. So, for argument’ sake lets say there really is only one true god who spoke through christ. then I’m eternally damned just by virtue of being born into a land whose dominant religion is not christianity. Then how can this god person be called impartial to all his children? he created me with brown skin and then damned me for being brown.
the point is that god and religion is just a system of ‘Carrots and Sticks’ that would keep ‘the Great Average’ (read people) from going out of control. Such a system can only work by being unverifiable. If you put the texts and sub-texts of all the religions of the world together, it would make such a wonderfully F*ed up volume of baloney that the religion scam should be obvious to anyone who would but pause and think.
DesultoryPhillipic over 15 years ago
You fail to realize that God is still being impartial because, as you said yourself, you came into a new knowledge courtesy of the christian message. Your being born in a country that has a predominately hindu belief system has nothing to do with it but rather your acceptance or rejection of Christ’s message. I believe that if you die never having been given that option, then you’ll be judged by a different standard. What that standard might be is beyond my ability to conceive. Only God Himself knows.
Dudely over 15 years ago
DesultoryPhillipic-
So what you’re saying is that someone who lived and died as, let’s say, a native of south america 1000 years ago will be judged differently by god? There is no mention of that in the bible. In fact it explicitly states that EVERYONE will go to heaven if they believe in Jesus.
What if a person who just happened to be a christian killed someone in my family? That would be enough for me not to believe. Is that then reason enough for ME to go to hell- after all, I do not believe in Jesus. Further, if he was a christian than he would go to heaven and I would go to hell, even though it was his fault that I was not a believer.
There are too many logical fallacies in religion. There are none from an atheist’s point of view- just questions.
krisch over 15 years ago
DesultoryPhillipic says:
“You fail to realize that God is still being impartial because, as you said yourself, you came into a new knowledge courtesy of the christian message. Your being born in a country that has a predominately hindu belief system has nothing to do with it but rather your acceptance or rejection of Christ’s message. I believe that if you die never having been given that option, then you’ll be judged by a different standard. What that standard might be is beyond my ability to conceive. Only God Himself knows.”
Oh! It’s nice to know that I’m going to be judged by the system that I’m born into. I’m not going to be eternally damned after all Phew! But if everyone is going to be judged by their own system, then why spread the christian message calling it the path to true salvation? My ‘Actions’ are going to lead me to true salvation in my own system of belief right? How do you justify the billions of dollars spent each year on spreading the christian message then? huh?! huh!!? Do you feel it?!?!
bklyngal305 over 15 years ago
yesyesuk says:
Now this is a much deeper question for me than the question whether god exists (He doesn’t. Period.).
That’s your PERIOD, bub - not mine. Speak for yourself.
bklyngal305 over 15 years ago
Nairebis says: “…but the ancient Greeks achieved an incredible level of civilization and planted the seeds of moral government that we still study and use today…”
“Moral Government”? Isn’t that an oxymoron? Like “Jumbo Shrimp” and “Military Intelligence”? (yes, I borrowed those from George Carlin - so sue me)
teaguemj about 15 years ago
Bill Watterson introduced the topic of God here. If the “comic” was only a “comic”, It would have no dialogue, only visuals. He wants us to think…
ffireffly about 15 years ago
Thought for the day: God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts.
dsbairdks about 15 years ago
Questioning Santa & God
dsbairdks about 15 years ago
Does God exist if Santa doesnt?
iknowtruthismine almost 15 years ago
God is the end result of a failed search for truth by a very shallow mind.
Groversfather over 14 years ago
If you know the truth then, obviously, your shallow mind has had a successful end result in your failed search to find and know God.
The peace of the Lord be with you always.
girlinsing about 12 years ago
wow.. Calvin’s a smart kid..
Havelock_Vetinari almost 12 years ago
Fine, I will not quote you wndrwrthg
derp0potato over 10 years ago
I say that going nuts over a religious debate is quite pointless. Atheists argue that there is no proof that God exists, but, if you think about it, there is no proof that God does not exist. Also, there is also no proof that this world is not just a hallucination that your brain his created. If you think about it, there really is no proof for anything. And since we seem to be unable to hold a debate if there is no proof, I say let’s just drop it and enjoy the comic.
Thank you for reading this comment and have a nice day :)
MGreenwood1 about 5 years ago
Watterson could get profound.
An Average Comic Reader over 1 year ago
because