Pat Oliphant for March 14, 2012

Amen, brother.

U.S. OUT OF AFGHANISTAN—-NOW!

But I do appreciate having to learn how to spell AFGHANISTAN!

Right on, Gresch!

I’m sure there is an equivalent to Agent Orange for just poppies.

Maybe the farmers will be forced to support the country, food wise, and not depend on western drug cartels for their incomes. Sadly, The politicians in Kabul are right at the top of the sales pyramid. The kickbacks are absolutely huge!

After the 9-11 attacks, someone said, “this changes everything.” I replied, no, how we respond will change everything. At the time, I had the naive and crazy idea that we should ship so much food and so many trinkets to Afghanistan that the Taliban government would be destabilized and become irrelevant. If we wanted to invade something it should be the terrorist training bases themselves. Somehow the idea doesn’t sound so crazy today. (Even if it didn’t work it would be cheaper and no worse.).Iraq was an even dumber invasion. Just because people get to dye their fingers blue doesn’t mean they have a democracy. Maybe it did push the country in the right direction, but tell that to the families of the hundreds of thousands who died there. We’ll see how it works out. (Or maybe I woun’t since I’m pretty old.) On the other hand, over population is the biggest problem facing the world…

Another appropriate cartoon would show an Afghanistan tribesman huddling in the ruins of his house, and as the Americans depart to the West, look in the opposite direction and call out, “Next.”

And invading Afghanistan helped any of that how?That was Michael Moore’s weakest film, and the best he could come up with was that Bush hushed things up for a week so some Saudis could skip town.

Actually, Dick Cheney still claims Saddam was behind 9/11. It took a year or two for the rest of the Bush administration to admit it was a lie, but Cheney’s a die-hard.

Anybody with a brain knew ten years ago that there is no answer.

this country has done this for over 200 years. my father has medals from assault and occupation forces in eastern Japan from 1940-41! and we were “shocked” that Japan counter-attacked us at Pearl and the P.I. the next year. sneak attack my ass. big oil? VietNam. big oil? iraq. big oil? although fomenting a revolution in north colombia, CIA creating panama and then building a canal to “help” them was a tad different….

Re the cartoon itself: A beautiful concept, beautifully executed.

Mr. Oliphant, I raise my hat to you. You’re the best.

There MIGHT have actually been an answer, but we never asked the right question. And considering that the Taliban and Al Quaida were almost as close as Siamese twins, a police action wouldn’t have worked. (Of course, there’s still no excuse at all for the Iraq war……..)

AMF

Baslim: just finished “Twilight”, very good review. The sad part is that Ritter and Pitt laid out all the lies in 2002, but the Congress and public were both conned by the administration’s lies.

For those who want to destroy Afghanistan, might I point out that WE invaded THEM, and they didn’t know any better than we did where Osama was, and we SHOULD have bombed Saudi Arabia instead? Also, it was George Orwell’s father representing the British, who’s job was to INCREASE opium production in Afghanistan to supply their “conquest” in China!!

If we laid the ignorance of the right, like dominoes, out in a line, it might be that bridge to the moon Newt wants? (or maybe Mars for the “W Expressway”, toll road of course.)

We should leave Afghanistan because we are not wanted there and we’re causing more harm than good. As to your point 1.- You would probably sound a lot less stupid if you tried thinking before you said things. "Only “libs” (sic) claim Saddam was behind 9/11. Really? How is anyone to take you seriously when you make statements like that? And, just so you know for the next stupid comment you want to make, it’s spelled LIBERAL, not “lib”. It’s hard for you stups to get that, but try it sometime, it’s really quite easy.

It’s kind of neck and neck don’t you think?

Some of you might think it’s a fine idea to just pull out and leave the mess behind. But imagine the chaos that will result, the settling back to old, rough customs of retribution and revenge. The city creatures will flee and tribesmen will sort it out and once again will be heard, “Cry ‘Havoc!’ and let slip the dogs of war.”

Powerful civilizations are fueled by hubris. I get a kick from the section of CATCH-22 where the old man in the brothel tells Nately that the strength of Italy is in being weak. When Nately protests, the old man explains that mighty Rome fell and the USA won’t last, either. The common frog has lasted 200 million years, he says – will any country last as long?

Long-term survival is in adaptation and bending to current situations. National adventurisms will gradually diminish as cultural entropy clogs the human heart. I have no doubt that Afghans will exist thousands of years after the civilizations that once conquered them are gone. Survival need not be at a high level to qualify as such. (Read Stephen Baxter’s EVOLUTION for a view of human remnants in the far future.)

Even if humanity eventually survives to leave Earth this principle will pertain. I recall with pleasure the Bruce Sterling story, “Swarm.” A race of large insect-like creatures inhabit nests in the asteroid debris around Betelgeuse. They are well adapted to space and apparently unintelligent, so human corporations determine to exploit them. The surprise is that the situation was expected ages ago, and so an intelligence is generated to repel the latest invader, or rather to absorb it. Intelligence is only a tool, explains the embodied Swarm:

“You are a young race and lay great stock by your own cleverness,” Swarm said. “As usual, you fail to see that intelligence is not a survival trait.”

Afriel wiped sweat from his face. “We’ve done well,” he said. “We came to you, and peacefully. You didn’t come to us.”

“I refer to exactly that,” Swarm said urbanely. "This urge to expand, to explore, to develop, is just what will make you extinct. You naively suppose that you can continue to feed your curiosity indefinitely. It is an old story, pursued by countless races before you. Within a thousand years perhaps a little longer your species will vanish.

“Intelligence is very much a two-edged sword, Captain-Doctor. It is useful only up to a point. It interferes with the business of living. Life, and intelligence, do not mix very well. They are not at all closely related, as you childishly assume.”

Wow, did I get off the track this time. Must be the coffee talking …

And here we go again. Siding with jihadi lunatics against the government of Syria while backing the Khalifa regime of Bahrain against the interests of the majority of Bahrainis. http://viableopposition.blog.com/2012/03/what-may-lie-ahead-for-syria.html

Sorry, interesting but here is the correct website:http:///www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NB15Ak03.html

You seem to be quite mad. Wherever did you get the idea that only liberals claim Saddam was behind 9/11? This is obviously your single opinion unsupported by any facts. You seem to forget that it was President W argued this before the UN. I agree with you, though, that we should leave Afghanistan.

We ought to leave as soon as possible. 2014 is not soon enough.

manifest destiny?

Nothing has been fixed. Afghanistan is just as unstable, and the Taliban just as strong, as it was 12 years ago.