What are you saying here Mike? You can’t possibly think that NATO is a positive force which keeps the Russian threat to Western Democracy in check. That’s what a reasonable person who doesn’t support Il Douche would think!
“Is bigly complikated plan. Mister Tяump luring Bear with honey. Of course it is clearly obvious for all to see that plainly яussia and U.S. are enemies. We must trust our presidents. Only Stock Market is important!”
“…Americans stood up for what was right. We fought for moral reasons. We passed laws, struck down laws – for moral reasons. We waged wars on poverty, not on poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were and we never beat our chest. We built great, big things, made ungodly technological advances, explored the universe, cured diseases and we cultivated the world’s greatest artists and the world’s greatest economy.”
“We reached for the stars. We aspired to intelligence, we didn’t belittle it. It didn’t make us feel inferior. We didn’t identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election and we didn’t scare so easy.”
We were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed. First step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one.”
’You know why people don’t like liberals? Cause they lose. If liberals are so ※♮!%✼ smart, how come they lose so damned always?’
“Because liberals value morality more than money or hubris.” – Aaron Sorkin
@Maybe, just maybe — umm, just who are they (and the U.S. by treaty) defending themselves against?
First two guesses would n’t count — It’s яussia !
яussia has 20,300 battle tanks, 1,013,628 combat troops, and 4,300 nuclear warheads.
America is the only country on earth that can match that.
If Tяump’s bright idea is for European countries to bankrupt themselves by purchasing thousands of tanks and nukes (from us) in preparation for endless war… fugeddaboutit
3) inspiring sorrow, pity, scorn, or ridicule, as in:
Defending a country that gleefully exterminated 20+ millions of their own people. The Russian government - then and now – are the worst enemy humanity has. They’re not a bit sorry.
If and only if the partners start rebuilding their forces.
I suggest you take a look at the equipment lists for NATO nations. Pay particular attention to France and Germany. They are substantially deficient in armor and aircraft. The US has been forced to increase the amount of MBT’s and support equipment after a decade of draw downs.
I’m not fond of Wiki, but it does appear to have the only comprehensive lists readily available for quick comparison.
The United States formed NATO. We formed it – for our benefit. The world’s largest economy – the United States – and the world’s largest economic block – the European Union – have been mutually defending and protecting each other against authoritarian aggression for SEVENTY years. Deterring World War III, for SEVENTY years. Defending democracy and free-market capitalism for SEVENTY years. Economic prosperity for SEVENTY years.
Now Trump-Putin is smashing it. This is the greatest victory in Russian history.
We wouldn’t need a draft if we had trained from childhood for the military the way Switzerland, who copied us and did 5X better than we at Confederation.
I will point out that the EU did not exist when NATO was formed, did not exist until 1992. And the European partners began slacking off almost immediately following the dissolution of the USSR.
the European partners began slacking off almost immediately following the dissolution of the USSR
LOL! That’s supposed to make them look bad?
Every year for nearly four decades, one-quarter of a million troops were billeted in West Germany, but by 1993 the number had dropped to 105,254. In 2000, just 69,203 American military personnel remained.
I guess the US military was slacking off too. Wonder why? Could it possibly have had anything to do with a significant reduction in opposing forces as Eastern European countries went from being Soviet puppets to countries clamoring to join NATO, or asserting independence from Russia?
The fact is, that the break-up of the Soviet Union meant a greatly reduced threat in Western Europe.
A threat has only come back with mad Vlad, who wants his Soviet Union back. You know, Trump’s BFF!
Putin kept the threat level deliberately low for a while, but then tipped his hand in Georgia and then Ukraine. The Europeans have moved slowly because fast actions tend to trigger other fast(er) actions. And they have had the NATO alliance with the US’s willing participation as the “big stick” … until Trump.
We have invested a lot of money and not a few lives in the cause of a free, captialistic Europe. It was never done in the expectation of tax or tribute on those countries. It was done with the very real expectation that it is better to trade with like-minded friends than with enemies.
I repeat: Putin wants his Soviet Union again. And Trump seems to want to help him get it. That may not be treason, but it is stupid.
The European Coal and Steel Community DID exist. Which became the European Economic Community. Which became the EU. The point is the same. A 70-year old political, military and economic alliance of Western free-market democracies. And @Baslim answered your other point.
@Baslim the Beggar We all slacked off after the wall came down, but large parts of the US political establishment fought tooth and nail to keep the US from following in the footsteps of France and Germany.
Once Putin came to power, the old guard in NATO continued to draw down, even as the new NATO members poured money into building tanks and recruiting soldiers.
Bush got snowed for a couple years by his pal Putin but woke up to smell the coffee. The EU/NATO just walked away.
Daeder almost 6 years ago
What are you saying here Mike? You can’t possibly think that NATO is a positive force which keeps the Russian threat to Western Democracy in check. That’s what a reasonable person who doesn’t support Il Douche would think!
So what’s your angle here?
Brian G Premium Member almost 6 years ago
Unless that is a feed bag, I am not seeing how this fits into the new Trump Doctrine of Russia being an ally and Europe being an enemy.
DaBoogadie almost 6 years ago
What Ramirez is saying is…Free the bear from NATO oppression.
Guy Fawkes almost 6 years ago
“Is bigly complikated plan. Mister Tяump luring Bear with honey. Of course it is clearly obvious for all to see that plainly яussia and U.S. are enemies. We must trust our presidents. Only Stock Market is important!”
“…Americans stood up for what was right. We fought for moral reasons. We passed laws, struck down laws – for moral reasons. We waged wars on poverty, not on poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were and we never beat our chest. We built great, big things, made ungodly technological advances, explored the universe, cured diseases and we cultivated the world’s greatest artists and the world’s greatest economy.”
“We reached for the stars. We aspired to intelligence, we didn’t belittle it. It didn’t make us feel inferior. We didn’t identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election and we didn’t scare so easy.”
We were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed. First step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one.”
’You know why people don’t like liberals? Cause they lose. If liberals are so ※♮!%✼ smart, how come they lose so damned always?’
“Because liberals value morality more than money or hubris.” – Aaron Sorkin
Radish the wordsmith almost 6 years ago
Trump wants to take that muzzle off.
Guy Fawkes almost 6 years ago
@Maybe, just maybe — umm, just who are they (and the U.S. by treaty) defending themselves against?
First two guesses would n’t count — It’s яussia !
яussia has 20,300 battle tanks, 1,013,628 combat troops, and 4,300 nuclear warheads.
America is the only country on earth that can match that.
If Tяump’s bright idea is for European countries to bankrupt themselves by purchasing thousands of tanks and nukes (from us) in preparation for endless war… fugeddaboutit
BeniHanna6 Premium Member almost 6 years ago
Sorry but Russia has historically been the defender in warfare not the aggressor state, like Germany, England, and France have been.
Guy Fawkes almost 6 years ago
@Sorry \ sär-ē \
Definition of sorry:
1) feeling sorrow, regret, or penitence
2) mournful, sad
3) inspiring sorrow, pity, scorn, or ridicule, as in:
Defending a country that gleefully exterminated 20+ millions of their own people. The Russian government - then and now – are the worst enemy humanity has. They’re not a bit sorry.
Andylit Premium Member almost 6 years ago
If and only if the partners start rebuilding their forces.
I suggest you take a look at the equipment lists for NATO nations. Pay particular attention to France and Germany. They are substantially deficient in armor and aircraft. The US has been forced to increase the amount of MBT’s and support equipment after a decade of draw downs.
I’m not fond of Wiki, but it does appear to have the only comprehensive lists readily available for quick comparison.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_level_of_military_equipment
braindead Premium Member almost 6 years ago
Why do Trump Disciples like Olongapojoe have to lie about every issue?
.
Russ-e-a not an aggressor state.
And the media is the enemy of the people.
Baslim the Beggar Premium Member almost 6 years ago
I’ll point out that France is apparently going to re-instate a military draft, and that Britain is also considering it.
corzak almost 6 years ago
The United States formed NATO. We formed it – for our benefit. The world’s largest economy – the United States – and the world’s largest economic block – the European Union – have been mutually defending and protecting each other against authoritarian aggression for SEVENTY years. Deterring World War III, for SEVENTY years. Defending democracy and free-market capitalism for SEVENTY years. Economic prosperity for SEVENTY years.
Now Trump-Putin is smashing it. This is the greatest victory in Russian history.
Night-Gaunt49[Bozo is Boffo] almost 6 years ago
We wouldn’t need a draft if we had trained from childhood for the military the way Switzerland, who copied us and did 5X better than we at Confederation.
Andylit Premium Member almost 6 years ago
@corzak
I will point out that the EU did not exist when NATO was formed, did not exist until 1992. And the European partners began slacking off almost immediately following the dissolution of the USSR.
Baslim the Beggar Premium Member almost 6 years ago
the European partners began slacking off almost immediately following the dissolution of the USSR
LOL! That’s supposed to make them look bad?
Every year for nearly four decades, one-quarter of a million troops were billeted in West Germany, but by 1993 the number had dropped to 105,254. In 2000, just 69,203 American military personnel remained.
https://www.heritage.org/defense/report/global-us-troop-deployment-1950-2003
I guess the US military was slacking off too. Wonder why? Could it possibly have had anything to do with a significant reduction in opposing forces as Eastern European countries went from being Soviet puppets to countries clamoring to join NATO, or asserting independence from Russia?
The fact is, that the break-up of the Soviet Union meant a greatly reduced threat in Western Europe.
A threat has only come back with mad Vlad, who wants his Soviet Union back. You know, Trump’s BFF!
Putin kept the threat level deliberately low for a while, but then tipped his hand in Georgia and then Ukraine. The Europeans have moved slowly because fast actions tend to trigger other fast(er) actions. And they have had the NATO alliance with the US’s willing participation as the “big stick” … until Trump.
We have invested a lot of money and not a few lives in the cause of a free, captialistic Europe. It was never done in the expectation of tax or tribute on those countries. It was done with the very real expectation that it is better to trade with like-minded friends than with enemies.
I repeat: Putin wants his Soviet Union again. And Trump seems to want to help him get it. That may not be treason, but it is stupid.
corzak almost 6 years ago
@andylit.
The European Coal and Steel Community DID exist. Which became the European Economic Community. Which became the EU. The point is the same. A 70-year old political, military and economic alliance of Western free-market democracies. And @Baslim answered your other point.
Andylit Premium Member almost 6 years ago
@corzak So terribly sorry, but the entity known as the EU was a massive departure from the relatively simple trade groups that pre-dated it.
That would be like saying NAFTA is the equivalent of a North American Confederation.
Andylit Premium Member almost 6 years ago
@Baslim the Beggar We all slacked off after the wall came down, but large parts of the US political establishment fought tooth and nail to keep the US from following in the footsteps of France and Germany.
Once Putin came to power, the old guard in NATO continued to draw down, even as the new NATO members poured money into building tanks and recruiting soldiers.
Bush got snowed for a couple years by his pal Putin but woke up to smell the coffee. The EU/NATO just walked away.