Nixon resigned under threat of impeachment. Clinton, like Andrew Johnson, was impeached, but not convicted, in a political witch hunt.
If you knowingly hire illegal workers, they should take your farm or factory, or Brentwood estate. Sell it & pay the proceeds on the national debt.
Doesn’t Arizona have enough immigration employees? They’ve asked me for my papers often enough. California, too. It gets annoying, & trying to get a birth certificate from Hawaii is a pain in the…
The Republicans want a large stream of undocumented citizens to work cheaply, not receive benefits and not join unions.
The Democrats want a large stream of undocumented workers to register and vote Democratic, pay union dues and actively support a liberal political government.
The stupid government of Arizona is actually trying to enforce the law and our constitution. They should be ashamed.
“Impeachment” isn’t a criminal proceeding, so “conviction” cannot possibly be a result. Clinton was successfully impeached. Removal from office is a separate (although not unrelated) procedure. Criminal prosecution resulting in any sort of conviction is likewise separate.
Nixon resigned before he could be impeached, but that did nothing to safeguard him against any criminal proceedings, should they have been brought. Ford’s pardon made that question moot, however.
Impeachment in the House may lead to an indictment taken to trial in the Senate- and the Senate may punish or remove from office.
Nixon resigned before being impeached on actual criminal counts. “W” skated on several potential counts. Both those presidents should have taken hits for acts taken by their key people. It should be noted that Nixon’s AND REAGAN’s people WERE convicted of criminal activities. (Even though the Reagan folks had their convictions overturned by Reagan appointed judges.) Where IS Scooter by the way, and whose orders was he following?
Andrew Johnson underwent an impeachment trial because he ticked off the Radical Republicans. Clinton underwent an impeachment trial because he ticked off the modern Republicans - there was no legitimate cause there. Nixon bailed out before an impeachment trial would have inevitably removed him from office (in the opinion of his fellow Republicans). Amazingly, he could have pardoned himself of all criminal charges had he wanted to – there are no limits on the Presidential pardoning power – but that would have been a clear violation in terms of exceeding his authority, so he could have been impeached and removed from office anyway, which is why he chose not to do it. (According to Ehrlichman, he did consider it.) Instead, he appointed Ford, who pardoned him, leaving his Presidential pension, ill-gotten gains, and everything else intact. They didn’t call him “Tricky Dick” for nothing!
There are far more important issues that are far more pressing than generating more hysteria and misinformation pertaining to HB1070 in AZ.
Read the bill…………………………..
This is a nation of laws and law abiding citizens; if you are here legally you have nothing to fear, if you are here illegally you need to leave and return legally………………
^So let me see if I understand this. I can get stopped at any time for as many times as the police want, I cannot sue the government for treating me like a second class citizen, I can be arrested without cause, If I drive with my familia to the park I can be pulled over for alleged human trafficking, and If I leave my papers at home for whatever reason I can be charged as an illegal immigrant?
^ Simple solution. If you are driving your car and get stopped just show them your Arizona drivers license or automobile registration. Voila- off the hook, free and clear. Why is that so difficult? Of course if you are an undocumented worker and don’t have a license, auto registration, voters card and/or social security card or passport then you have some explaining.
No one is asking for a license Bruce. What they are asking for is a birth certificate. Almost no one carries that kind of information. But that’s not the issue. The issue is about pulling Latinos over on a daily basis based on their looks. That in itself is racial profiling and it is wrong. No one, not even AZ’s governor, can describe what an illegal immigrant looks like. Does that make any sense to you?
^ No one is asking for a Birth Certificate. Don’t know where you get your facts.
Police department has a lot of work. I doubt they would start pulling all Latinos on a daily basis. However, if they do stop you for any reason (whether you are driving or walking), they might ask for documentation. And a driver’s license is just fine. Please read the bill before throwing a fit.
even if you have your passport, driver’s license, green card, birth certificate, social security card, last seven years tax returns, utility bills, etc…. all the officer has to say is “I think they’re fake” and he’ll run you in.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/27/MNND1886J0.DTL
I knew that truck incident is what WarBush was referring.
I love it when folks comment about issues on which they don’t have the faintest clue. If you have ever driven a truck, you would know that just a CDL is not sufficient to get you past a checkpoint. You would need to carry a secondary identity - and by the way - a social security card is not an identification.
So in this case, if the logs/manifests are even slightly messed up and papers/identities are not in order, it follows that the guy would end up being detained for further questioning.
davesmithsit about 14 years ago
Wages in AZ. havent gone up significantly for over 30 years due to illeagals. So if this law makes them want to leave YAAAAAAAHH!!!!!
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
Zing!!
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
And dave old boy, who’s hiring them?
WarBush about 14 years ago
Herr State!
MurphyHerself about 14 years ago
^Sigh.
ChukLitl Premium Member about 14 years ago
Nixon resigned under threat of impeachment. Clinton, like Andrew Johnson, was impeached, but not convicted, in a political witch hunt.
If you knowingly hire illegal workers, they should take your farm or factory, or Brentwood estate. Sell it & pay the proceeds on the national debt.
Doesn’t Arizona have enough immigration employees? They’ve asked me for my papers often enough. California, too. It gets annoying, & trying to get a birth certificate from Hawaii is a pain in the…
Libertarian1 about 14 years ago
The Republicans want a large stream of undocumented citizens to work cheaply, not receive benefits and not join unions.
The Democrats want a large stream of undocumented workers to register and vote Democratic, pay union dues and actively support a liberal political government.
The stupid government of Arizona is actually trying to enforce the law and our constitution. They should be ashamed.
fritzoid Premium Member about 14 years ago
“Impeachment” isn’t a criminal proceeding, so “conviction” cannot possibly be a result. Clinton was successfully impeached. Removal from office is a separate (although not unrelated) procedure. Criminal prosecution resulting in any sort of conviction is likewise separate.
Nixon resigned before he could be impeached, but that did nothing to safeguard him against any criminal proceedings, should they have been brought. Ford’s pardon made that question moot, however.
Dtroutma about 14 years ago
Impeachment in the House may lead to an indictment taken to trial in the Senate- and the Senate may punish or remove from office.
Nixon resigned before being impeached on actual criminal counts. “W” skated on several potential counts. Both those presidents should have taken hits for acts taken by their key people. It should be noted that Nixon’s AND REAGAN’s people WERE convicted of criminal activities. (Even though the Reagan folks had their convictions overturned by Reagan appointed judges.) Where IS Scooter by the way, and whose orders was he following?
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
Andrew Johnson underwent an impeachment trial because he ticked off the Radical Republicans. Clinton underwent an impeachment trial because he ticked off the modern Republicans - there was no legitimate cause there. Nixon bailed out before an impeachment trial would have inevitably removed him from office (in the opinion of his fellow Republicans). Amazingly, he could have pardoned himself of all criminal charges had he wanted to – there are no limits on the Presidential pardoning power – but that would have been a clear violation in terms of exceeding his authority, so he could have been impeached and removed from office anyway, which is why he chose not to do it. (According to Ehrlichman, he did consider it.) Instead, he appointed Ford, who pardoned him, leaving his Presidential pension, ill-gotten gains, and everything else intact. They didn’t call him “Tricky Dick” for nothing!
cfimeiatpap about 14 years ago
There are far more important issues that are far more pressing than generating more hysteria and misinformation pertaining to HB1070 in AZ. Read the bill………………………….. This is a nation of laws and law abiding citizens; if you are here legally you have nothing to fear, if you are here illegally you need to leave and return legally………………
TruthfulTheocracy about 14 years ago
^So let me see if I understand this. I can get stopped at any time for as many times as the police want, I cannot sue the government for treating me like a second class citizen, I can be arrested without cause, If I drive with my familia to the park I can be pulled over for alleged human trafficking, and If I leave my papers at home for whatever reason I can be charged as an illegal immigrant?
Libertarian1 about 14 years ago
^ Simple solution. If you are driving your car and get stopped just show them your Arizona drivers license or automobile registration. Voila- off the hook, free and clear. Why is that so difficult? Of course if you are an undocumented worker and don’t have a license, auto registration, voters card and/or social security card or passport then you have some explaining.
meetinthemiddle about 14 years ago
Seems to me we need to invoke Usenet debating club rules: The first person to bring up Hitler (or Stalin) loses.
WarBush about 14 years ago
No one is asking for a license Bruce. What they are asking for is a birth certificate. Almost no one carries that kind of information. But that’s not the issue. The issue is about pulling Latinos over on a daily basis based on their looks. That in itself is racial profiling and it is wrong. No one, not even AZ’s governor, can describe what an illegal immigrant looks like. Does that make any sense to you?
attyush about 14 years ago
^ No one is asking for a Birth Certificate. Don’t know where you get your facts.
Police department has a lot of work. I doubt they would start pulling all Latinos on a daily basis. However, if they do stop you for any reason (whether you are driving or walking), they might ask for documentation. And a driver’s license is just fine. Please read the bill before throwing a fit.
treered about 14 years ago
even if you have your passport, driver’s license, green card, birth certificate, social security card, last seven years tax returns, utility bills, etc…. all the officer has to say is “I think they’re fake” and he’ll run you in. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/27/MNND1886J0.DTL
attyush about 14 years ago
@Bruce:
I knew that truck incident is what WarBush was referring.
I love it when folks comment about issues on which they don’t have the faintest clue. If you have ever driven a truck, you would know that just a CDL is not sufficient to get you past a checkpoint. You would need to carry a secondary identity - and by the way - a social security card is not an identification.
So in this case, if the logs/manifests are even slightly messed up and papers/identities are not in order, it follows that the guy would end up being detained for further questioning.