Tom Toles for August 15, 2017

From what I have read of Robert E. Lee, he would have been incensed that this activity was carried out in his name.

Considering all the Civil War units in the National Park Service, the statues aren’t the problem, history is history after all. The real problem is those who forget who won, and contaminate history. Andersonville is a lesson in southern brutality, but both sides had more than their fair share. At least Custer let his arrogance get him in the end.

From what I’ve read Robert E. Lee was a traitor to his Country and betrayed the Union in the cause of preserving the rights of rich men to make themselves richer by enslaving other men and women. Did he feel sympathy for the poor white men and boys he sent to their deaths to preserve his lifestyle? I don’t know; I wasn’t there; don’t really care. I’ve said this before, Tolls does his best work when he draws elephants. Drawing an elephant (and no one does it better) seems to help him see the important issues.

“BASE” DESCRIBES THE BASE – {a rhyme}

These statues’ bases are “base”

in the sense of ignobly “debased",

of civic value no trace.

America’s disgraced

that they crowd our space.

OFF they ought to be chased.

======

Remove the base, and who would vote Republican??

SILENCE IN VIOLENCE – {Rhyme}

Like frightened lambs, we’re in frightened silence

while it escalates, – the Far-Rightists’ violence.

Meanwhile the “right" for goons to wield guns

leaves freedom threatened by descendants of Huns.

We tremble at Evil’s gestation

toward Evil’s consummation.

========

Germany has done a much better job of facing their evil past. Charlottesville would have never happened there. We need to take a page from their book.

I don’t know why some people in the US insist that their culture and way of life is threatened by the removal of statues to the largest group of traitors in US history. If your way of life is threatened by the success of the US in war and the stable union, maybe you’re still a national traitor and need to find a new country.

Let’s not forget that the Civil War was as much about “State’s rights” as it was about the Slavery issue…

As a displace New Englander (roots back to 1623) now living in Virginia for many decades, and having earned a second graduate degree from UVA I will repeat: Robert E. Lee was a Virginian first and foremost, a plantation owner, along with the slaves and everything else that owning a plantation in the mid-nineteenth century entailed. His father, Light-horse Harry Lee was one of George Washington’s favored generals during the Revolution. Robert E. married into the Washington family and inherited the lands belonging to Martha’s daughter (by Martha’s first husband). They were confiscated by the union and turned into burial grounds, and later consecrated as Arlington National Cemetery, never to be returned to the Lee family. Here in Virginia, he is revered as a tragic hero. When I grew up in New England, he was reviled as the ultimate traitor. In the middle, he was a human being, who fought for his state.

Before the Civil War, our nation was a conglomeration of states, and people felt duty to their state. It wasn’t until AFTER that dreadful war that we began to feel a sense of National pride, and started calling ourselves “Americans”. Prior to 1860, if asked, a person would claim to be a Virginian, a New Yorker, or a Vermonter; after 1865 the response would be “I am an American.” Robert E. Lee made the decision to fight for his home, family, and State. I had 2 great great … uncles who fought for the north against their cousins from Tennessee. My XXXX uncles died in Fredericksburg, Virginia fighting against Lee’s army.

@Jensolo02. Some tweaks to your message. The language of the Constitution made it clear from the beginning that it was now the UNITED States of America – states were giving up their individual sovereignty. Slavery drove a wedge between some states, who asserted their right to sovereignty anyway (and do today, even though that issue is as dead as King Tut).

Americans DID start to refer to “United States” as singular rather than plural post-Civil-War, as it happens.

I am a New Englander of Puritan descent on one side who grew up in the South (with family everywhere), who reads a lot about the Civil War. Lee was not a tragic hero, though he had his share of tragedy. He consciously chose to side with his state over the Union even though he was not a secessionist. That made him a traitor to the nation on behalf of his state, but he knew what he swore to when he joined the Army. He was not the “good massa” that people like to claim; he was a die-hard white supremacist who treated his slaves badly not only by the standards of the time, but by the standards of his own family. After the Civil War, he was very permissive of white supremacist acts, including lynchings.

He was an excellent tactician (not a strategist, myths notwithstanding), who defended his home state, at the cost of his nation, and as a consequence was directly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans, and indirectly responsible for evenmore, as he enabled the Confederacy to last longer than it might have otherwise.

@masterkrain: No, the Civil War was NOT “just as much about about states’ rights” EXCEPT insofar as it permitted slavery. It was about slavery, first, foremost, and always. Any statement otherwise came AFTER the war, by certain people whitewashing the history.

It’s very easy to prove this: look at the various declarations of succession. EVERY SINGLE ONE cites slavery as the main cause. Alexander Stephens, the Vice-President of the Confederacy, in his “Cornerstone” speech made it quite clear that that was the cause.

You can even examine their Constitution, which was exactly the same as the then-current US Constitution except for two things: it made slavery immutable, and it increased states’ rights. It was an issue, yes, but slavery was always primary.

Why would the republicans want to get rid of their white racist base? It is how they get elected. Racists, Russia and cheating. If it was up to the popular vote, Americans and people who aren’t racists, they wouldn’t have a chance with their tax cuts to the wealthy.

Republicans love their racist base, they feed them constantly.

I was born and raised in Texas. I consider myself of humankind as a species and of Earth or Terra. Then my country. Once we start thinking that way we might save ourselves from our own imposed destruction. I don’t see it happening.

I believe the “elephant’s” usual response is," I’ll get back to you in a coupola weeks, on that!"

My family has no oral tradition regarding the 1860s. Members were not only on both sides in the war, but on two occasions, in the same battle. To keep the peace, such matters were just not discussed. However, my loyalty is to the United States of America, even though that loyalty must be expressed in opposition to the current government where it is contrary to the Constitution it swore to uphold and protect.

It’s all about the bass.

But if I don’t have that base, I can’t win elections – GOP

They lost the war, we let them keep their statues. Now they are getting abusive and too racist so the statues have to go, losers.

…but…but…what about (hushed voice) those people who are not like us…u know “them”. Those people scare me. NO! Don’t look right at them! tHey sEe U. I bet they are laughing at us rite now. That’s why you vote GOP. They will protect us from THEM.