Tom Toles for February 25, 2013

Those who think the “mainstream media” is “Left”, understand neither left nor the mainstream. There is “media” on the left, but it doesn’t belong to corporate interests and certainly doesn’t include the NY Times. At most they are center right and Joe Nocera is the Opt ed business columnist.

And Rush Limbaugh and other ultra conservative commentators would totally agree with him. Taking one commentator from the left and stating that this opinion is the general opinion of all on the left is just as bad as taking one commentator on the right and stating that all such commentators agree with that right wing commentator. That is not a valid argument.

In the first place it is not the hydrocarbon fuels themselves that are the real evil here, it is the burning up of them into our limited world atmosphere that is the real evil. Let me attempt to explain.

There are many valid reasons why such burning up of fossil fuels is bad for the US (or the rest of the world for that matter).

One: For the US in particular, one such evil is the dependency upon such totally unstable areas of the world as the Middle East, with its fanatical religious idiocy!

Two: The commentator from the Times was correct in one particular, and that is that these fissile fuels are the very stuff of the existence of our modern civilization. Oil is the major lubricant in every piece of our moving machinery. It is used extensively in the cutting of metals by our machine tools. It is the entire material upon which our plastics industry is based upon. It is used in everything from medicines to food. Get the picture here? This material is far too precious to be just burned up into the atmosphere for energy or transportation!

Three: When so burned up into the atmosphere it creates a choking pollution that is literally killing missions of our fellow Americans with various lung disorders. And thus is one of the major factors that not only contributes to untold of human misery, but also is a major factor in the heavily rising cost of medical care. If you could tell me that air pollution is good for human beings, (as well as other breathing creatures) then I would withdraw reason three, but if you are honest, then I do not think that you can do that!!

And all of this is totally without the very real threat of Rapid Global Climate Change brought about by the increase in human generated Greenhouse gases.

Somewhat sorry about the length of this post, but this is NOT a sound bite issue by any means!!

Michael wmeAre you trying to capture the heady days of Swift’s A Modest Proposal for Preventing the Children of Poor People From Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Publick?

Yup, it’s just too bad that we have had no warming for the last 10+ years. Even with the warmest March ’12 we still did not set any high temp records for Apr, May, Jun, July or Aug.

Best true bumper sticker I ever saw: Where Are We Going, and Why Am I in This Handbasket?

And again Paul wants to cherry pick the figures.

Politics and science are incompatible in capitalism.

Climate change is real, and whether one believes it is man made or part of a cycle, science shows there are things to be done that can slow and even reverse it. With education, innovation, and experimentation, the USA can lead the world in this effort and create jobs and improve lives while doing so. Droughts effecting over 50% of America’s farmland and the growing severity of storms, tornadoes, etc. are going to continue to have negative effects on the economy even if one doesn’t care to consider the toll it takes on human and animal lives. The frog is in the water and the water is getting hot and the frog doesn’t know its in danger.Feelin’ froggy,C.

“And that’s the view from the mainstream Left.”

Er, no. That’s the view from one grossly undereducated journalist, who (as others here are pointing out) is not representative of the Left in general.

Joe Nocera made a stupid mistake in his column, and has retracted it. Fossil fuels do contribute to climate change. If you don’t believe that, you need to deny all measured data and all basic science. No problem for you, of course.

Believe it or not, the climate is ALWAYS changing and has done so since this planet was formed some 4.5 Billion Years ago.…And anybody who tells you differently is full of you-know-what.…Sooner or later, we will all be dead and if the fossil record is correct, sometimes all that death happens at once because of a cataclysmic change, or it happens in increments, like when one generation of life forms dies off while subsequent generations live on and in the greater scheme of things going on in the universe, our existence seems insignificant and even inconsequential to anybody or anything other than ourselves.…Now knowing that climate change is actually a constant on this planet we live on, about the only thing that we as living beings can do is adapt to the change as it presents itself, just like life always has done ever since life began on this planet.…There was life on this planet, even a climate on this planet, long before there were people populating this planet and if the fossil record is an indication, there may even be life on this planet and even a climate on this planet long after the last human being becomes extinct, because in the great scheme things, extinction is the way of all species of life here on Planet Earth, too, and that if we can not adapt to the situations here as they present themselves, then we too should die out and make way for the life that remains, because it did adapt to the changes.

Skip, you are so full of ..<ahem> poop, that your eyes are brown.

Nocera really represents what used to be the mainstream right. He just got left behind when conservatism went off the deep end.

Skippy, everyone knows there are natural cycles in climate. According to the overwhelming majority of scientists, what’s going on now is above and beyond that produced by any natural cycle. You people keep trotting out the “natural cycles” argument as though no one – particularly scientists who’ve studied climate their entire careers – has ever heard of it. Maybe this is big news in the conservative world, but it’s a given everywhere else. Try to address the facts at hand instead of simply blowing smoke, and sounding ridiculous in the process.

Renewable energy is one issue and that’s a matter of practicality. I’m a Slim Pickens fan for that issue, at least to really get things going in the most cost efficient manner. I wouldn’t spend another nickel on climate change until you can get China and India on board. They are polluting so massively that until they really take serious measures to control it anything we do is miniscule to the larger issue.

Several decades of stalling on alternative energy, is not a good way to look at this. I predict that the countries that get to renewable energy quickest, will have significant competitive advantages as the price of oil continues to rise.http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/09/china-power-capacity-idUSL4N0AE5Q520130109http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/08/germany-has-five-times-as-much-solar-power-as-the-u-s-despite-alaska-levels-of-sun

I think Tom Toles has a great idea. If the government puts off doing something with the climate, it will be further down the road before they screw up the climate and cost us a fortune, all at the same time.

masterskrain said, about 10 hours ago“And anyone who believes that we have an “Unlimited Supply” of ANYTHING is an idiot! Oil, coal, fresh air, water, whatever… The Earth is a CLOSED ECOSYSTEM! There is a finiteamount of everything! The only possible exception is solar radiation, and eventually even THAT will end. Granted, it will be several Billion years down the road, but eventually it WILL end.”-what a gloom and doom view of the future, when faith in God’s Word, the Bible, tells us that the Creator who brought this material universe into being, will sustain it and at some point in the future will RECYCLE this earth…a renovation…and the New Earth is designed to be Eternal.God supplies every need of Mankind….and God will not allow this earth to “end”….God the Son will return to Zion and set up His earthly kingdom and end this 6th Age of Men-in-charge (under God’s sovereignty) for an Age of Peace as promised, with Jerusalem and the nation of Israel to rule under the Living Christ and resurrected King David.-why choose “doom”?

@digusted taxpayer said;

“God supplies every need of Mankind….”

including doctors that provide abortions, when they’re NOT being hunted and murdered by your ilk, and of course, planned parenthood.

Night-Gaunt49 and ahab (and others): .Thank you for your posts today. I get very discouraged reading others who are either willfully ignorant or apparent shills for energy companies. I could link a few dozen articles to counter their opinions, but they wouldn’t agree with them no matter what. .Read “National Geographic,” not “The National Review,” for the real science related to climate change. As Kurt Vonnegut wrote in GALAPAGOS, a novel set in the far future, “We could have saved [the Earth] but we were too damned cheap.”

GOP Fact – No worry over the climate, it’s a liberal trick.

One of our largest problems IS folks like disgusted who think a “god” exists that solves all problems and gives a rat’s patootie about as ignorant a populace as “believers” too stupid to look around them, recognize that science IS a part of that mysterious force that not even the most intelligent people can explain, creation, yet depend on some Jew’s mythology, with latter day morons distorting even THAT myth to justify being stupid, and destroying the planet.