Pat Oliphant for September 16, 2009

@scottfreitas:

Hmmm, pretty big claims to be attaching to a guy you’ve never met. Washington was a Freemason, and they tended (and still tend) to be pretty big on the whole “public service” and “public good” concepts. So, you know, your presumptions of what Washington might or might not have done are at best guesses, and could easily be completely wrong.

Plus, you might just want to read up on Washington’s highly controversial handling of smallpox vaccines for the Continental Army. Yes, soldiers weren’t civilians, but he did quite clearly take control of soldiers’ health care, irregardless of their views on the treatment.

Lighten up Scottie, it’s satire. Ye olde national health insurance was not proposed until Monroe’s second term.

Good one, Charlie, & Thanks, I thought it was John Quincy Adams who first proposed it. He was way ahead of his time. Now Andrew Jackson would have come down to the floor of the house & beat the stuffings out of Jerkus. He promised to hang a certain South Carolina politician of his day, let’s see, oh yes, that was his Vice President, John C. Calhoun, who had much better manners, even though Calhoun was a rotten rebel before his time, than the current controversial Carolinian. Calhoun would have never interrupted the president before a joint session of Congress, but then, he was something our current Jerkus is not, that is, a gentelman.

funny toon … Oliphant is a gem of an editorial cartoonist

My old Dad always said that the only responsibilities of a government should be national defense and moving the mail.

That said, perhaps we should allow the President to put his beans on the table before we start shouting about how many of them make ten…

The thing is….under Washington’s successor, John Adams, the Alien and Sedition acts were passed….and people DID get thrown in jail for insulting the President.

I would suggest the responsibilities of the government are whatever we the people require. Building an interstate highway system was not really necessary (national defense was an excuse, no more). Maintaining National Parks is neither national defense nor postal service. There are many things the national government does for which I am thankful.

I watch all this health care stuff from up in Canada and it amazes me that you guys in the USA pay on average around 50% more for health care than the rest of the G8 and leave 48M uninsured and rank with Croatia for infant mortality. One of the reasons a lot of your jobs are being offshored is because American health care expenses per employee are too high and they are too high because the medical and drug company establishments are ethically on a par with Wall Street bankers and Enron’s past influence in the electricity market.

Those in opposition to universal healthcare truly are uninformed -or worse- mislead. Only a selfish ignoramus (I choose those words carefully) would fail to see the benefit of healthcare for all, or deliberately be selective who should benefit.

Hey Erlac, stop watching NBC and actually do some research. Elusivecentrist, irregardless is not a word you intelligent lefty.

GOOD JOB, fellow righties! You’ve knocked the dummies out with facts. Now watch them start attacking you personally, hurling their favorite labels starting with “RACIST”, then the familiar “RIGHTWINGNUT”, followed by “CRAZED-DROOLING-GUNLUVIN’-WIFE-BEATIN’-PUPPY-KICKIN’-AL FRANKEN-HATIN’-GREAT SATAN”!

On this, the sesquicentennial of our illustrious predecessor, Norton I’s, assumption of imperial authority, we, Fritz I, inheritor of the titles Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico, renew the call for enforcement of his decree of 12 October, 1859, dissolving the U.S. Congress. His Majesty’s grounds for this edict, that Congress’s “fraud and corruption prevent a fair and proper expression of the public voice; that open violation of the laws are constantly occurring, caused by mobs, parties, factions and undue influence of political sects; that the citizen has not that protection of person and property which he is entitled”, have not improved to any noticable degree in these past 150 years. Should immediate dissolution not take place, we will not hesitate in once again following Norton I’s example and directing the U.S. Army to proceed with suitable force to clear the Halls of Congress.

Although he would no doubt be gratified that his proclamation that a bridge be built from San Francisco to Oakland via Goat Island (now known as Treasure Island) has come to fruition, our far-seeing predecessor would be pained, could he see the division which now, like then, threatens to plunge this great nation into chaos and incivility.

We also renew his first proclamation upon attaining the purple: “[I]n virtue of the authority thereby in me vested, … hereby order and direct the representatives of the different States of the Union to assemble in Musical Hall, of this city [San Francisco], on the 1st day of Feb. next, then and there to make such alterations in the existing laws of the Union as may ameliorate the evils under which the country is laboring, and thereby cause confidence to exist, both at home and abroad, in our stability and integrity.”

As Musical Hall is no longer standing, We propose that this conclave instead be held at the Fillmore Auditorium. Alcoholic refreshments will be available for purchase and consumption on the premises. Delegates’ dogs must remain outside.

FRITZ I

First, George Washington is not fool enough to believe that garbage, much less say it.

Second, Barack Obama is NO George Washington…not by a long shot. Washington knew what American freedom cost first hand and would not sell it so easy.

Third, Wilson, though out of order was saying what a lot of Americans think and the CBO knows…there is no way that can be deficit-neutral….no way in hell.

DrC, aren’t you all mixed up again? The colonists who wanted to stay loyal to the King fled to Canada. Patriots(conservatives) led the fight for freedom from tyrrany, just as they are doing today. The great Thomas Jefferson constantly wrote about “Republicanism” and identified himself as a “Republican”. His arch-enemy, the vile Alexander Hamilton, was in favor of crowning George Washington as King. Cheers, old boy!

Pat Oliphant was out of focus on this one…..the American people want someone to challenge Washington, DC. We should all remember that our forefathers were criminals in the eyes of England and they would have been hanged as traitors if the Colonist’s hadn’t won the war. We are a people who stand up against liars!

@ Smackallica - MSNBC may say what it want - it may be somewhat more accurate than FOX, but that’s not exactly the best measuring stick. However, here is what the OECD has to say on the topic( linky - http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/46/2/38980580.pdf ) :

In 2007 (last year with data) the total US expenditures on healthcare were $7290 per capita (measured in 2007 USD, adjusted for purchasing power parity), for a total of some 16% of its GDP. That amount includes the uninsured - so the actual people paying insurance paid notably more. In comparison, here is how several other countries, most with comparable and sometimes even slightly better-rating healthcare, did:

Japan: $2581 per capita, 8.1% of the country’s GDP (data for 2006, the rest of the countries are 2007)

Italy: $2686, 8.7%

UK: $2992 per capita, 8.5 %

Germany: $3588, 10.4%

France: $3601, 11%

Canada: $3895, 10.1%

Norway: $4763, 8.9%

And once again, to summarize, the US: $7295, 16% . Are we really supposed to believe that it’s worth it paying THAT much more?

I can’t know if Erlac, or you, did a lot of research, but these are basic facts. The American healthcare system is remarkably ineffective compared to the universal ones, and is likely to become even more expensive soon. This is why I find it sad that the public option, or indeed any non-profit option, probably won’t materialize in the US anytime soon - it appears to be simples, most efficient method to drive prices down.

The problem is we only voted the Republican office holders out of office. There’s not much we can do about their sleazy partisan media lackeys such as Fox “News”. You also have the problem of the Dems being largely spineless since the Clinton Administration.

Do you see the Republicans cowing to artificially generated public opinion? No, they’re the ones who generate it to suit their own selfish needs.

^ picking up on this comment … you know what I think would be a good idea? Each commentator speaking on the various news programs, including the Sunday morning shows, should have an accuracy meter up in one corner that reflects how many right or wrong predictions and statements they make. Remember how many insisted, almost to the last moment, that H. Clinton would win the Dem. nomination? More were adamant she would be the nominee, she was too powerful and had too much party support, than correctly predicted Obama would be the nominee. I know some pundits who are wrong far more than they are right. If their missteps and wrong guesses were kept track of, maybe they would be more careful, more thoughtful, more reasoned before they spoke.

Dr C…You must enjoy Krauthammer if you are watching him all the time (that is what always means right?), or do you get this from left wing blogs? Oh and “Faux News” is such a witty phrase. I chuckle almost as often as I hear PMSNBC News. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

BCS…I agree that people should be held accountable for their “predictions” on both sides of the aisle. It would be very interesting, but it would be very drawn out as well. Sports pundits are just about as bad with way out predictions that you only hear again if they came true. What I find interesting is that you say people predicted H Clinton would win, but when she didn’t and Obama got into office he grabbed so many from the B Clinton administration to be his advisors and cabinet people. I don’t think it was for very long though in the primary race because she was out of it pretty early and made a late but inconsequential comeback at the end.

The “Faux News” jab has been around for a while now, but it’s still fairly accurate. The Fox “News” network is largely opinion and punditry. MSNBC isn’t far off and CNN seem to be following suit more and more.

“Borrowing” members of previous Presidents’ administrations isn’t unheard of. G W Bush borrowed heavily from the administrations of G H W Bush, Reagan, and I think a few from Nixon/Ford as well.

My personal favorite pre-election prediction was when Limbaugh exuberantly (to be polite about it) predicted that Hillary would make sure she was Obama’s running mate so that after he won, she could kill him and become President through succession.

wminfield, there were dozens of pundits who said Hillary Clinton would get the nomination and they kept it up about the “super delegates” to the end. Bill Kristol, the conservative commentator who has his job because he’s his father’s son, gets about 1 out of 10 predictions correct. He has one of those who had no doubt the nominee would be Clinton. I don’t watch Krauthammer, I have a particular dislike of him after watching him one too many times make perfect nonsense.

I think they should create an accuracy meter. Rate them on the same questions/predictions so the comparisons would be fair. I mean wouldn’t it be useful to know that the pundit spouting off on XYZ topic is far more wrong than right?

Hmmmm … I think I’ll write some letters suggesting this…

DrCanCan: of course I know my own history and you are obviously confused about it (as usual). The brave souls who decided to take on the greatest (and most disturbingly arrogant & corrupt power at that time) were most certainly not “liberal” as we use the term today, and fought to establish a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy. Read Ben Franklins’ opinion concerning democracies. The Crown loyalists are seen as spineless cowards, willing to pay ever-higher taxes to the King in order to be allowed to just get along. Doesn’t that make you think of today’s liberal democrat who seems to think it’s just dandy to pay more & more taxes, as long as a “nanny” Government promises to take care of them? Hmmmmmm?

Dr C: I can read. Can you read? I asked if you weren’t watching him all the time, were you were getting the information, that he is always wrong, from some left wing blog. I do know the difference, and I was just trying to learn how you come to your conclusions.

I find it hard to believe he is ALWAYS wrong. I have seen instances where he is right, and I don’t think the companies where he is published or where he is on air with would pay him if he is always wrong. Please don’t assume I am defending him. I stated previously I would like to see what TRUE accuracies of predictions are not distortions from either side.

What’s the matter, Dr C, did my biting, factual retort leave you speechless? Surely you have some smarmy, twisted, convoluted, smart-ass comment to make. Bring it!

Uh, is this toon comparing Obama to George Washington? Yeah, not even close!

Well, seeing that conservatives are equated with preserving the status quo it stands to reason that they would be identified with those who wanted to remain under the crown. Modern liberals want to reform the health care system so all can share the luxury of good health. It is always liberals fighting for human and equla rights for all i.e. civil rights, womens sufferage ect. It is always the conservative mantra that things are great and need not be changed.

Those on Fox News are paid to spout propaganda to support the status quo. This is their reason for being. CNN is now countering some of their falsehoods because Fox is portraying CNN (and MSNBC) as puppets of the liberals. Reality is constantly challenged by Fox because they think saying something is so will eventually make it a fact. The Bush Administration used this mind set to win elections and determine policy in this country for 8 long weary years until things got so bad that reality could no longer be denied.

DrKook: Have people ever said to you, “talking to you is like talking to a brick wall”? Just wondering. Short enough?

Dr C has now proven conclusively that when someone in a debate resorts to insult & name-calling, they’ve lost! Just what kind of Dr. are we supposed to believe you are, anyway? OOPS! (more than 3 lines)

Pilotx, you need to get past these mostly meaningless labels (“conservative”, “liberal”) and the things you’ve been brain-washed to believe they mean. If they were defined by one of your teachers who favored one political view over another, do you think you’d have an honest viewpoint?

Tell the Big Lie often enough, and people will begin to believe it. This was proven in Germany in the ’30s; Heinrich Himmler had the data, and he knew how to use it. Sadly, the US has become so under- or un-educated that verifying the data has become an exception, and Himmler’s successors here (largely, but not all, under Emperor Murdoch) are enjoying the lack of discernment.

@4uk4ata: Thanks for the EOCD link; eye-opening stuff!

@ bikemaster: “Doesn’t that make you think of today’s liberal democrat who seems to think it’s just dandy to pay more & more taxes, as long as a “nanny” Government promises to take care of them? Hmmmmmm?”

I am not sure if you know, but at present income tax rates seem to be at a very low level historically. If Obama does allow Bush’s tax cuts to expire, they will be back at the Clinton levels. That is actually lower (especially for the richer stratum) than ANYTHING from 40s until Reagan’s second term. Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford - all of them had taxes on the rich much higher than anything Obama. What does that make you think?

(If anyone is interested, you can see more details at http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=19 or http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213 )

4uk4ata: Thanks for the informative post. Income tax, however, is only part of the story. Social Security tax, Medicare Tax, property tax, sales tax, “luxury” tax, excise tax, fed. access fees, etc. all add up to take a whopping bite out of our incomes. The worst of these has to be the insidious “property” tax. This evil invention means that unlike everything else you purchase, pay sales tax on and then own, you never really “own” your home, and State, County, City governments demand ever-increasing amounts of money from you, all based on some supposed value established by…..a government agency! How’s THAT for a racket? I’d like to blame it on the democrats, but to be fair & balanced…oops…(that’s Faux…er…Fox News’s line)…fair & honest, property tax has no political label. It’s just WRONG!

As opposed to today’s Republican who looks the other way when a Republican President borrows more and more money to the point this buddies in Congress have to change the law to raise the limit the national debt can legally reach, waste hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of American lives invading and badly occupying a country based on “evidence” his own administration most likely made up, handing out 700 billion dollars to mega banks with no strings attached, increasing unwarranted government intrusion into citizens’ private lives under the phony guise of protection, all while cutting taxes on the rich so that the working class of the future (if there will be any left) can pay for it all well after he leaves office?

I’m not a Democrat. I’m not a big fan of Obama and I didn’t vote for him. Having said that, most of the “conservative” opposition to Obama is blatant partisan BS. All these people worked up over Obama’s deficit spending more than happily looked the other way for 8 years while Bush did it. You would have most likely continued to look the other way if McCain followed Bush’s lead. You only care now because Obama’s not a Republican and isn’t pandering to your BS issues. Well, that and because Limbaugh and Fox “News” tells you to.

This country has real problems that will never get fixed because too many people on both sides of the political divide are too stupid to wake up and stop being a pawn in the partisan game. Look at GM and look at the Roman Empire. There is no such thing as too big to fail. If we citizens don’t end the BS partisanship, the our country may be the next in line to fall. Unlike GM, I don’t think anyone will be bailing us out.

Mr. Bike I have not been brainwashed to believe any philosophy it was you who stated “Patriots (conservatives)” who led the fight for freedom against tyranny” and “good job fellow righties knocking the dummies out with facts”. Shall I go on? So using your own logic have you been brainwashed by your teachers and do you have an honest viewpoint? That last question is misleading because yes I am a progressive/liberal and I am very honest about my viewpoints. I also agree that in this discussion labels would be misleading as the founding fathers owned human beings as property so they could not have been too enlightened.

Actually, bikemaster, I believe the estate/inheritance tax only applies (on the federal level) for inheritance of over 3.5 million, more in cases of couples or in other cases. AFAIK that means that most people won’t ever be subject to it; if I ever inherit more than that I will bear it somehow. I’m not very sure how it works on the state level - iirc some states accept the federal exemption, others do not. As for the others - I admit they drive the general tax rate up, but even then the US is far from the most heavily taxed place on Earth, especially for those who are better off.

It depends on what your position on taxes in general is, of course. Personally, I would not mind paying a higher tax as long as a) I am still able to live comfortably afterwards and b) the money I pay is used well. There are people who would prefer as low a tax as possible, but I think that the state can be an efficient agent in some areas.

What are the taxes used for? I certainly think if the infrastructure, the school system, the health care system, is improved, then the taxes are doing their job. Taxes are the price of civilization. And people got along very well in the 1960’s if they had a decent job.

jase wrote: ”most of the “conservative” opposition to Obama is blatant partisan BS. All these people worked up over Obama’s deficit spending more than happily looked the other way for 8 years while Bush did it. You would have most likely continued to look the other way if McCain followed Bush’s lead. You only care now because Obama’s not a Republican and isn’t pandering to your BS issues. Well, that and because Limbaugh and Fox “News” tells you to.”

well said, Jase, as is this line: ”If we citizens don’t end the BS partisanship, the our country may be the next in line to fall.”

I truly appreciate when moderate Reps or independents acknowledge the things you just stated. Thanks for that.

4uk4ata, good post, but I didn’t discuss the estate/inheritance tax. That’s another discussion. I was talking about the property tax payed by anyone who buys a home. It is collected by the County government and can be increased by the county assessor AND by levy rates. It never stops, always goes UP and if you lose your job & can’t pay it,YOU ARE HOMELESS!