I feel for my great grand children (yet to be born). One of the things I would like to leave them are directions to the trumpster’s grave. I know they would eagerly join the line of those waiting to p on his grave.
President Trump and his enablers have developed a consistent tactic when he’s criticized: say that someone else is worse. It’s called whataboutism.
The idea behind whataboutism is simple: Party A accuses Party B of doing something bad. Party B responds by changing the subject and pointing out one of Party A’s faults — “Yeah? Well what about that bad thing you did?” (Hence the name.)
The idea is that a populist leader wants to keep his supporters on his side. Getting too specific on a policy or a position risks creating rifts within that base of support. Pointing to a common enemy, on the other hand, is a great way to unify a group.
Famously, Trump even did a reverse version of this — smearing the U.S., and defending Russia — when he told Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly about his “respect” for Russian President Vladimir Putin. When O’Reilly countered that “Putin is a killer,” Trump responded, “There are a lot of killers. You got a lot of killers. What, you think our country is so innocent?”
This particular brand of changing the subject is “whataboutism” — a simple rhetorical tactic heavily used by the Soviet Union / Russia, and now in the U.S.
Maybe those who took advantage of the free frontal lobotomies that political parties offer for registering with them, have affected the quality of congress?
At least for the time being, one is free in America to ‘believe’ anything one wants. I ‘believe’ in the world’s scientific community, which speaks with one voice. Man made AGW is as real as it comes.
@Lovelandclay: Nope. The idea that findings of THOUSANDS of scientists in numerous fields all point the same way is some kind of massive, coordinated hoax is merely nonsensical. As Ben Franklin put it: “three people can keep a secret — if two of them are dead.” Doesn’t happen.
The first proposal that increased CO2 generated by human activity would increase the warmth of the world was in 1896 by the great scientist Svante Arrhenius. Using relatively simple math, he even came up with a decent estimate. Ever since then, especially in the last fifty years, we have been getting better and better data and doing better and better analyses. It’s now a certainty: the Earth is warming, and the primary cause is increased CO2 from human activity. Of the ten hottest years on record, ALL are 1998 or later. We’ve had a top-three for the past four years running.
If you are in fact open to documented, researched information, and are not simply an ignorant (or paid) troll, here are some useful links you can look at for yourself:
The earth’s climate has continued to change since it was formed. To stop it from changing entirely as Mr. Breen suggests in today’s cartoon is folly. Citizens of the world do not need to wait for their government to compel them to pollute less, they can start now.
Whataboutism flattens moral nuances into a black-and-white worldview. But in this worldview, it’s very difficult to be the good guy; idealism is the ultimate naïveté, and anyone who dares to criticize another can be “unmasked” as a hypocrite. This creates a useful moral equivalency: if nobody is perfect, there’s license to do all sorts of imperfect things.
GEEZER ABOUT 3 HOURS AGO
It’s not about moral equivalency; it’s about hubris. Some of us believe that human beings are no more able to stop the climate from changing than we are able to stop the continents from drifting.
GIGAGROUCH ABOUT 2 HOURS AGO
@Geezer
If there were enough people in the world with that attitude, humanity would truly be doomed.
If one believes that there is nothing to be done, nothing will be done. This is the route to damnation.
GEEZER ABOUT 2 HOURS AGO
If one believes that there is nothing to be done, nothing will be done.
What are you doing to stop continental drift?
STAN CORRECTED ABOUT 1 HOUR AGO
@Geezer
Not doing anything to stop continental drift, nothing we can do. But then it is happening on a extraordinarily long scale time, and it does not pose a threat to civilization, so there is nothing we would have to do. Further, there is nothing we are doing that is hastening drift, like our spewing of GHG is hastening global warning. Why do I get the feeling I am wasting my time? Too easy…
We have to continue to refute the deniers even if we can’t change their minds. If all people ever read are denier comments without them being refuted, then more could believe their unscientific nonsense. “Nothing humans can do” is ridiculous and requires ignoring smog, Cuyahoga river burning, affects from dams, and even the changes in environment that happened when wolves removed and then reintroduced in Yellowstone.
It’s the usual failure of the deniers to recognize the importance of rate of change as a factor. You’d think they could figure out that something coming at you at 60 mph is a greater danger than something coming at you at 0.06 mph, but Nooo, that just passes them by…
@WestNYC, the “normal” climate is shaped by three main cycles (called the “Milankovitch cycles”) involving the Earth’s orbit around the sun, axial tilt and precession. Following past history (as determined by geological evidence) the Earth SHOULD be cooling down as it approaches another ice age. Since the Earth’s AVERAGE temperature is RISING, something is not normal. It is possible that normal cooling cycle is keeping Global Warming from being worse.
Those who don’t believe in human-caused climate change are free to post arguments to the contrary. If they don’t, then there’s nothing to respond to. At this point, there’s not much left for deniers to say. But let them say it, if they wish. If they don’t say it, I assume that they don’t have anything to say.
We have had our first “condensate” spill – where the fire burned out of control on the ocean for 3 days – and then plumed out a toxic cloud. The cruder than crude condensate is particularly poisonous to coral reefs. The toxins should be able to dissipate in the water – and because they are not soluble will go on to poison ocean life.
But it isn’t like we can affect our environment right? Just like we can’t affect our government?
Boo, Down all this rationalist nonsense. The Rapture is nigh. Screw Green Peace! Light your Menorahs with whale oil. Put oil derricks on Temple Mount. All is fair in Holy War…I read it it in Galatians 2;01 or so such: you know know the part where she comes out of the Dead Sea all crusty and such….
^ Yes, I read that book; it’s very good. It shows that because DOING anything about climate change is expensive, that proves there is no such thing as climate change.
Dtroutma over 6 years ago
The Constitution, and all rule of law are also being burned.
lopaka over 6 years ago
I feel for my great grand children (yet to be born). One of the things I would like to leave them are directions to the trumpster’s grave. I know they would eagerly join the line of those waiting to p on his grave.
Joe1962 Premium Member over 6 years ago
The Constitution and rule of law were being burned by Obama!
Guy Fawkes over 6 years ago
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° ↑
President Trump and his enablers have developed a consistent tactic when he’s criticized: say that someone else is worse. It’s called whataboutism.
The idea behind whataboutism is simple: Party A accuses Party B of doing something bad. Party B responds by changing the subject and pointing out one of Party A’s faults — “Yeah? Well what about that bad thing you did?” (Hence the name.)
The idea is that a populist leader wants to keep his supporters on his side. Getting too specific on a policy or a position risks creating rifts within that base of support. Pointing to a common enemy, on the other hand, is a great way to unify a group.
Famously, Trump even did a reverse version of this — smearing the U.S., and defending Russia — when he told Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly about his “respect” for Russian President Vladimir Putin. When O’Reilly countered that “Putin is a killer,” Trump responded, “There are a lot of killers. You got a lot of killers. What, you think our country is so innocent?”
This particular brand of changing the subject is “whataboutism” — a simple rhetorical tactic heavily used by the Soviet Union / Russia, and now in the U.S.
lonecat over 6 years ago
Climate change and nuclear weapons are the two greatest dangers we face. If we don’t solve these problems, we are toast.
Masterskrain Premium Member over 6 years ago
Stop it? Hell, they are HELPING IT!!
Geezer over 6 years ago
STOP CONTINENTAL DRIFT!
superposition over 6 years ago
Maybe those who took advantage of the free frontal lobotomies that political parties offer for registering with them, have affected the quality of congress?
Radish the wordsmith over 6 years ago
The Republicans love to destroy the American government.
Their evil guru told them to shrink it enough so they can drown it in a bathtub.
They will end all entitlements if they get their way.
The Republican donor class needs your money so they can keep Republicans in power.
Guy Fawkes over 6 years ago
@Geezer
At least for the time being, one is free in America to ‘believe’ anything one wants. I ‘believe’ in the world’s scientific community, which speaks with one voice. Man made AGW is as real as it comes.
lovelandclay Premium Member over 6 years ago
Climate change is a hoax. Get with it, Breen!!!
wirepunchr over 6 years ago
LOVELANDCLAY: go ahead and think what your ity-bity mind wants to because for right now you still have that freedom.
retpost over 6 years ago
Trump never reeds: just burn it for heat.
Motivemagus over 6 years ago
@Lovelandclay: Nope. The idea that findings of THOUSANDS of scientists in numerous fields all point the same way is some kind of massive, coordinated hoax is merely nonsensical. As Ben Franklin put it: “three people can keep a secret — if two of them are dead.” Doesn’t happen.
The first proposal that increased CO2 generated by human activity would increase the warmth of the world was in 1896 by the great scientist Svante Arrhenius. Using relatively simple math, he even came up with a decent estimate. Ever since then, especially in the last fifty years, we have been getting better and better data and doing better and better analyses. It’s now a certainty: the Earth is warming, and the primary cause is increased CO2 from human activity. Of the ten hottest years on record, ALL are 1998 or later. We’ve had a top-three for the past four years running.
If you are in fact open to documented, researched information, and are not simply an ignorant (or paid) troll, here are some useful links you can look at for yourself:
http://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/graphics/the-10-hottest-global-years-on-record
https://skepticalscience.com
WestNYC Premium Member over 6 years ago
The earth’s climate has continued to change since it was formed. To stop it from changing entirely as Mr. Breen suggests in today’s cartoon is folly. Citizens of the world do not need to wait for their government to compel them to pollute less, they can start now.
Guy Fawkes over 6 years ago
@Geezer
Whataboutism flattens moral nuances into a black-and-white worldview. But in this worldview, it’s very difficult to be the good guy; idealism is the ultimate naïveté, and anyone who dares to criticize another can be “unmasked” as a hypocrite. This creates a useful moral equivalency: if nobody is perfect, there’s license to do all sorts of imperfect things.
GEEZER ABOUT 3 HOURS AGO
It’s not about moral equivalency; it’s about hubris. Some of us believe that human beings are no more able to stop the climate from changing than we are able to stop the continents from drifting.
GIGAGROUCH ABOUT 2 HOURS AGO
@Geezer
If there were enough people in the world with that attitude, humanity would truly be doomed.
If one believes that there is nothing to be done, nothing will be done. This is the route to damnation.
GEEZER ABOUT 2 HOURS AGO
If one believes that there is nothing to be done, nothing will be done.
What are you doing to stop continental drift?
STAN CORRECTED ABOUT 1 HOUR AGO
@Geezer
Not doing anything to stop continental drift, nothing we can do. But then it is happening on a extraordinarily long scale time, and it does not pose a threat to civilization, so there is nothing we would have to do. Further, there is nothing we are doing that is hastening drift, like our spewing of GHG is hastening global warning. Why do I get the feeling I am wasting my time? Too easy…
Guy Fawkes over 6 years ago
NANCE19OPED GC INSIDER 32 MINUTES AGO
@Stan Corrected
We have to continue to refute the deniers even if we can’t change their minds. If all people ever read are denier comments without them being refuted, then more could believe their unscientific nonsense. “Nothing humans can do” is ridiculous and requires ignoring smog, Cuyahoga river burning, affects from dams, and even the changes in environment that happened when wolves removed and then reintroduced in Yellowstone.
.https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem
MARTENS 27 MINUTES AGO
@Stan Corrected
It’s the usual failure of the deniers to recognize the importance of rate of change as a factor. You’d think they could figure out that something coming at you at 60 mph is a greater danger than something coming at you at 0.06 mph, but Nooo, that just passes them by…
RAGs over 6 years ago
@WestNYC, the “normal” climate is shaped by three main cycles (called the “Milankovitch cycles”) involving the Earth’s orbit around the sun, axial tilt and precession. Following past history (as determined by geological evidence) the Earth SHOULD be cooling down as it approaches another ice age. Since the Earth’s AVERAGE temperature is RISING, something is not normal. It is possible that normal cooling cycle is keeping Global Warming from being worse.
lonecat over 6 years ago
Those who don’t believe in human-caused climate change are free to post arguments to the contrary. If they don’t, then there’s nothing to respond to. At this point, there’s not much left for deniers to say. But let them say it, if they wish. If they don’t say it, I assume that they don’t have anything to say.
robnvon over 6 years ago
They will bury it beneath the slag unearthed by the first pass of a Bagger. A fitting memorial to Donald Trump… maybe it be his last.
Mr. Blawt over 6 years ago
We have had our first “condensate” spill – where the fire burned out of control on the ocean for 3 days – and then plumed out a toxic cloud. The cruder than crude condensate is particularly poisonous to coral reefs. The toxins should be able to dissipate in the water – and because they are not soluble will go on to poison ocean life.
But it isn’t like we can affect our environment right? Just like we can’t affect our government?
robnvon over 6 years ago
Boo, Down all this rationalist nonsense. The Rapture is nigh. Screw Green Peace! Light your Menorahs with whale oil. Put oil derricks on Temple Mount. All is fair in Holy War…I read it it in Galatians 2;01 or so such: you know know the part where she comes out of the Dead Sea all crusty and such….
Geezer over 6 years ago
https://www.amazon.com/Climate-Change-Facts-Jennifer-Marohasy/dp/0909536031
NeoconMan over 6 years ago
^ Yes, I read that book; it’s very good. It shows that because DOING anything about climate change is expensive, that proves there is no such thing as climate change.