Republican elephant: We're going to blame Obama for the oil spill until he... Man: Now? Elephant: No. That's government interference in the private market. But he can stay down there and observe.
No one blamed the storm on the president. We blamed the complete and total inaction with over a week’s warning and several weeks after on the president.
Didn’t make any difference that the folks running New Orleans and the State sat on their thumbs, that was Bush’s fault also. WHY MUST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DO FOR US WHEN WE ARE CAPABLE OF DOING FOR OURSELVES?
Okay Crocho. You fight off the starving-hungry mobs off your property when a disaster hits your area. Let’s see how long you last before you call the police…oh wait! They’re part of the government.
Corcho, the Federal Government has FEMA to address natural disasters. Katrina was a natural disaster affecting thousands - and there were things the federal government could do quickly and easily to alleviate suffering. It responded very slowly and very unwillingly.
This oil spill is a man-made disaster with a specific responsible party, namely BP. It is BP’s responsibility to fix and clean up – and pay. The current administration may have been slow on addressing it, but the situation was not as clear-cut immediately. And they are acting - if only anyone knew what action was going to work.
BTW, I’ve heard the silly comments that blame the mean left for making those nice oil companies drill so deep down so they wouldn’t be up close to the fragile coast lands. Of course, if the spill had occurred closer, the damage would have been disastrous immediately even if the spill could be stopped quickly. It was not the environmentalists who made BP drill down there – that was BP’s decision. They could also have chosen not to go with such a risky thing – but of course, that would have meant forgoing profit….
corcho99: “Didn’t make any difference that the folks running New Orleans and the State sat on their thumbs, that was Bush’s fault also. WHY MUST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DO FOR US WHEN WE ARE CAPABLE OF DOING FOR OURSELVES?”
If “we’re” capable of doing it ourselves, we should, but even if “we” should be doing it, the Feds have an obligation to step in if “we” aren’t.
Whether Katrina or the Gulf spill, the costs (I’m not merely talking about $) of delay in action are such that it’s unconscienable for the Feds NOT to respond in whatever way is necessary to deal with the crisis. Apportion responsibility after the fact, seek recompense where appropriate, but the U.S. Government has the resources (money, manpower, logistics) to “get ‘er done.”
fritz – I agree in general with what you say, but in this instance the government doesn’t have the resources to get the job done. The government is not in the oil business, nor should it be.
Unfortunately, it’s not clear that anyone has the resources to get this job done quickly. I hope we learn something from this mess.
It was pointed out yesterday that the Clean Water Act allows for a fine of $1100 per barrel of oil spilled, with a provision in the case of gross negligence for that fine to jump to as much as $4300 per barrel.
It’s no wonder BP doesn’t want anyone doing any kind of survey of how much oil has been/will be spilled in this disaster – at the maximum rate they could be on the hook for more than $10billion just in fines to the EPA. That doesn’t include any damages awarded in civil trials or the cost of cleanup, or even the royalties owed for the oil they’ve removed (spilled).
Perhaps Robert Reich has it right – put BP into receivership now and allow the federal government to take over the cleanup using BP’s resources to “get ‘er done.”
BP’s “Expert” Engineers haven’t done this type of disaster control before. Suppose one could describe their failed attempts as well as their next one as R&D… Ravage & Destroy!
The old adage: “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$#!T ☜some of the BP news conferences.
For a look at what’s happening below the Gulf Water’s surface (posted May 25) - ABC’s Good Morning America
lonecat: “fritz – I agree in general with what you say, but in this instance the government doesn’t have the resources to get the job done. The government is not in the oil business, nor should it be.”
I agree with you in general as well, but my concern is with people (on either side) who say “It’s BP’s problem, let BP deal with it”. Both the public sector and the private should be working diligently (and cooperatively) to (a) stop the leak, and (b) protect the ecosystem. That’ll take taxpayer money, and will involve “government interference”. If BP doesn’t WANT gov’t interference, that’ll be another incentive to act quickly.
It’s not the government’s job to fix the leak, it’s just their responsibility to insure that BP and its partners do so. At least while we still have a government.
According to recent reports, BP has not only been VERY slow to act, and there are many things it could be doing but has avoided for profit reasons – e.g., they should get every doggone tanker they’ve got in the region pumping oil out of the water, they should stop spreading toxic dispersants which does nothing for the ultimate problem but makes it look better from space, they should put more concerted efforts on relief bores instead of stopping it for whatever gimmick they have now – but they had an astonishing number of “willful” safety violations – something like 790 compared to single-digits for all the other big guys.
I don’t know that the Feds are going to do a better job of plugging the hole, but they can do a better job of lighting a fire under BP – “get this done, or we ban your stations and your business and repo your refineries for the cost of the cleanup and sell them to American companies with better safety records!” For example…
tcolkette, anything that’s “not the government’s job” BECOMES the government’s job if (a) it NEEDS to be done, and (b) those whose job it is AREN’T DOING IT.
If it’s the public sector’s job, they should be DOING it. If it’s a State government’s job, they should be DOING it. If you don’t want the Federal gov’t “meddling” in environmental protection, consumer rights, securites exchange markets, insurance, whatever, then POLICE YOURSELVES BETTER.
Obama stepped up and said he is responsible for the response and the stopping of the leak. What part of that did Toles not understand. Politically it was really really stupid of BHO to do that. He can stomp his feet and yell at an aide “Stop the bleeep leak” all he wants but it isn’t going to get done. He is not God believe it or not. Then BHO goes and sends his enforcer down to intimidate BP. What kind of idiot do we have for a President? BP was responsible and BP will be the one responsible to fix the leak and conduct the clean up. Their stock has taken a 75 Billion hit. They are spending billions on this. If I were them I would say FU after his non-stop BA bashing and head for bankruptcy court. Obama was not responsible for the leak and is not going to stop it and won’t clean up one square foot of beach. He is just playing politics. As usual. He is not a leader. He is a community organizer. What people like Toles and other did to Bush starting 48 hours after Katerina hit was unconscionable and was the usual partisan anti-Bush rhetoric that continues to this day. Bush, in case you didn’t know, didn’t cause Katrina (or the oil spill, the Icelandic eruption, or the Haitian earthquake) and up until that point in our history states were responsible for cleaning up after natural disasters with some help from the federal government in the background. La and NO had the most incompetent governments you can imagine, making it necessary for massive federal aid to keep people from dying. Look at what occurred in Florida and Mississippi and Texas over the years.
rekam,
get real, there’s 30,000 working wells in the gulf.
(u want $7.99 a gallon gasoline?).
it is a huge mistake by the Royals(BP owned by the Queen), esp after 30 years of PR hype being for “alternative energy” solar wind, all those “eco” non solutions.
ON a practical note, i see clean -up crews NOT using full haz mat suits….and am reminded of those friends i had in Alaska “clean-up”who have died breathing in this poison.
Is carol browner sitting on her hands? wtf? This is a “super site” cleanup, the largest we have had….WHERE is the HAZ mat direction?
so not touch it, breathe it, be NEAR it. IT is poison, and the benzene cause cancers in soft tissue organs- where it ‘settles’.
IF it is killing birds, fish, it will CERTAINLY kill people.
Get off the beaches and stop showing people handling it, squeezing tar balls etc. slow motion death.
Jayhawk; Obama is not God. EXACTLY! then why blame somebody for nox fixing something he can’t fix?
The part of government responsible for oil drilling should have thought twice before authorizing that well, but as long as I’ll remember the republican croud chanting “Drill, Baby, Drill” at the convention in 2008, I won’t think they would have done any better.
“… What kind of idiot do we have for a President? … As usual. He is not a leader. He is a community organizer. … was the usual partisan anti-Bush rhetoric”
The criticisms of Bush were for the reaction to Katrina, which was well within his powers: not mobilizing the force that was already in place for exactly such issues (FEMA), and also for gutting FEMA of its experts and replacing them with incompetent and untrained party donors (e.g., “Brownie,” who gave a lot of money and knew horses). Yes, the governments of NO and LA have their share of blame, but let’s face it, it’s not like Bush didn’t know the hurricane was coming and had to wait to be asked. He didn’t wait on other issues, did he? FEMA was in his control, and he mismanaged it.
Obama can’t magically fix the leak, but he can light a fire under BP, as I said. Since OTHER oil companies and former oil company CEOs have come forward and said BP is not doing what they could and should be doing, I’m willing to take them at their word! When the oil companies are criticizing their own, it says all it needs to for me.
Radish: say what? No way we know how to create hurricanes. Do you know the power involved??
riley05 almost 14 years ago
How true is that?
We demand small, non-intrusive non-regulatory government.
Unless there’s a gulf oil leak with a Democrat administration.
Aquarianne almost 14 years ago
We want what we want when we want it. And you are going to be wrong no matter what you do, President Obama.
Note that we had nothing to say when the Bush-Cheney two-headed monster pillaged the country.
meetinthemiddle almost 14 years ago
No one blamed the storm on the president. We blamed the complete and total inaction with over a week’s warning and several weeks after on the president.
corcho99 almost 14 years ago
Didn’t make any difference that the folks running New Orleans and the State sat on their thumbs, that was Bush’s fault also. WHY MUST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DO FOR US WHEN WE ARE CAPABLE OF DOING FOR OURSELVES?
SuperGriz almost 14 years ago
Fine. Let it rot, then.
WarBush almost 14 years ago
Okay Crocho. You fight off the starving-hungry mobs off your property when a disaster hits your area. Let’s see how long you last before you call the police…oh wait! They’re part of the government.
Good luck to ya.
cdward almost 14 years ago
Corcho, the Federal Government has FEMA to address natural disasters. Katrina was a natural disaster affecting thousands - and there were things the federal government could do quickly and easily to alleviate suffering. It responded very slowly and very unwillingly.
This oil spill is a man-made disaster with a specific responsible party, namely BP. It is BP’s responsibility to fix and clean up – and pay. The current administration may have been slow on addressing it, but the situation was not as clear-cut immediately. And they are acting - if only anyone knew what action was going to work.
BTW, I’ve heard the silly comments that blame the mean left for making those nice oil companies drill so deep down so they wouldn’t be up close to the fragile coast lands. Of course, if the spill had occurred closer, the damage would have been disastrous immediately even if the spill could be stopped quickly. It was not the environmentalists who made BP drill down there – that was BP’s decision. They could also have chosen not to go with such a risky thing – but of course, that would have meant forgoing profit….
fritzoid Premium Member almost 14 years ago
corcho99: “Didn’t make any difference that the folks running New Orleans and the State sat on their thumbs, that was Bush’s fault also. WHY MUST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DO FOR US WHEN WE ARE CAPABLE OF DOING FOR OURSELVES?”
If “we’re” capable of doing it ourselves, we should, but even if “we” should be doing it, the Feds have an obligation to step in if “we” aren’t.
Whether Katrina or the Gulf spill, the costs (I’m not merely talking about $) of delay in action are such that it’s unconscienable for the Feds NOT to respond in whatever way is necessary to deal with the crisis. Apportion responsibility after the fact, seek recompense where appropriate, but the U.S. Government has the resources (money, manpower, logistics) to “get ‘er done.”
lonecat almost 14 years ago
cdward – thanks for an intelligent post.
fritz – I agree in general with what you say, but in this instance the government doesn’t have the resources to get the job done. The government is not in the oil business, nor should it be.
Unfortunately, it’s not clear that anyone has the resources to get this job done quickly. I hope we learn something from this mess.
jhouck99 almost 14 years ago
It was pointed out yesterday that the Clean Water Act allows for a fine of $1100 per barrel of oil spilled, with a provision in the case of gross negligence for that fine to jump to as much as $4300 per barrel.
It’s no wonder BP doesn’t want anyone doing any kind of survey of how much oil has been/will be spilled in this disaster – at the maximum rate they could be on the hook for more than $10billion just in fines to the EPA. That doesn’t include any damages awarded in civil trials or the cost of cleanup, or even the royalties owed for the oil they’ve removed (spilled).
Perhaps Robert Reich has it right – put BP into receivership now and allow the federal government to take over the cleanup using BP’s resources to “get ‘er done.”
Jaedabee Premium Member almost 14 years ago
He walked on water out to the leak then descended to the ocean floor through a pillar of holy light, then plugged the hole with Divine Providence.
This, in turn, re-energizes the birthers and the claims of the anti-Christ.
GJ_Jehosaphat almost 14 years ago
BP’s “Expert” Engineers haven’t done this type of disaster control before. Suppose one could describe their failed attempts as well as their next one as R&D… Ravage & Destroy!
The old adage: “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$#!T ☜some of the BP news conferences.
For a look at what’s happening below the Gulf Water’s surface (posted May 25) - ABC’s Good Morning America
fritzoid Premium Member almost 14 years ago
lonecat: “fritz – I agree in general with what you say, but in this instance the government doesn’t have the resources to get the job done. The government is not in the oil business, nor should it be.”
I agree with you in general as well, but my concern is with people (on either side) who say “It’s BP’s problem, let BP deal with it”. Both the public sector and the private should be working diligently (and cooperatively) to (a) stop the leak, and (b) protect the ecosystem. That’ll take taxpayer money, and will involve “government interference”. If BP doesn’t WANT gov’t interference, that’ll be another incentive to act quickly.
Jaedabee Premium Member almost 14 years ago
^ Agreed.
tcolkett almost 14 years ago
It’s not the government’s job to fix the leak, it’s just their responsibility to insure that BP and its partners do so. At least while we still have a government.
Motivemagus almost 14 years ago
According to recent reports, BP has not only been VERY slow to act, and there are many things it could be doing but has avoided for profit reasons – e.g., they should get every doggone tanker they’ve got in the region pumping oil out of the water, they should stop spreading toxic dispersants which does nothing for the ultimate problem but makes it look better from space, they should put more concerted efforts on relief bores instead of stopping it for whatever gimmick they have now – but they had an astonishing number of “willful” safety violations – something like 790 compared to single-digits for all the other big guys. I don’t know that the Feds are going to do a better job of plugging the hole, but they can do a better job of lighting a fire under BP – “get this done, or we ban your stations and your business and repo your refineries for the cost of the cleanup and sell them to American companies with better safety records!” For example…
fritzoid Premium Member almost 14 years ago
tcolkette, anything that’s “not the government’s job” BECOMES the government’s job if (a) it NEEDS to be done, and (b) those whose job it is AREN’T DOING IT.
If it’s the public sector’s job, they should be DOING it. If it’s a State government’s job, they should be DOING it. If you don’t want the Federal gov’t “meddling” in environmental protection, consumer rights, securites exchange markets, insurance, whatever, then POLICE YOURSELVES BETTER.
MadJayhawk almost 14 years ago
Obama stepped up and said he is responsible for the response and the stopping of the leak. What part of that did Toles not understand. Politically it was really really stupid of BHO to do that. He can stomp his feet and yell at an aide “Stop the bleeep leak” all he wants but it isn’t going to get done. He is not God believe it or not. Then BHO goes and sends his enforcer down to intimidate BP. What kind of idiot do we have for a President? BP was responsible and BP will be the one responsible to fix the leak and conduct the clean up. Their stock has taken a 75 Billion hit. They are spending billions on this. If I were them I would say FU after his non-stop BA bashing and head for bankruptcy court. Obama was not responsible for the leak and is not going to stop it and won’t clean up one square foot of beach. He is just playing politics. As usual. He is not a leader. He is a community organizer. What people like Toles and other did to Bush starting 48 hours after Katerina hit was unconscionable and was the usual partisan anti-Bush rhetoric that continues to this day. Bush, in case you didn’t know, didn’t cause Katrina (or the oil spill, the Icelandic eruption, or the Haitian earthquake) and up until that point in our history states were responsible for cleaning up after natural disasters with some help from the federal government in the background. La and NO had the most incompetent governments you can imagine, making it necessary for massive federal aid to keep people from dying. Look at what occurred in Florida and Mississippi and Texas over the years.
rekam Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Motive, for a change I agree with you wholeheartedly. I still stay there should be no oil drilling anywhere along ANY of our coastline.
jaxaction almost 14 years ago
rekam, get real, there’s 30,000 working wells in the gulf. (u want $7.99 a gallon gasoline?).
it is a huge mistake by the Royals(BP owned by the Queen), esp after 30 years of PR hype being for “alternative energy” solar wind, all those “eco” non solutions.
ON a practical note, i see clean -up crews NOT using full haz mat suits….and am reminded of those friends i had in Alaska “clean-up”who have died breathing in this poison.
Is carol browner sitting on her hands? wtf? This is a “super site” cleanup, the largest we have had….WHERE is the HAZ mat direction?
so not touch it, breathe it, be NEAR it. IT is poison, and the benzene cause cancers in soft tissue organs- where it ‘settles’. IF it is killing birds, fish, it will CERTAINLY kill people. Get off the beaches and stop showing people handling it, squeezing tar balls etc. slow motion death.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Jayhawk; Obama is not God. EXACTLY! then why blame somebody for nox fixing something he can’t fix?
The part of government responsible for oil drilling should have thought twice before authorizing that well, but as long as I’ll remember the republican croud chanting “Drill, Baby, Drill” at the convention in 2008, I won’t think they would have done any better.
Jaedabee Premium Member almost 14 years ago
“… What kind of idiot do we have for a President? … As usual. He is not a leader. He is a community organizer. … was the usual partisan anti-Bush rhetoric”
Irony.Motivemagus almost 14 years ago
Jayhawk:
The criticisms of Bush were for the reaction to Katrina, which was well within his powers: not mobilizing the force that was already in place for exactly such issues (FEMA), and also for gutting FEMA of its experts and replacing them with incompetent and untrained party donors (e.g., “Brownie,” who gave a lot of money and knew horses). Yes, the governments of NO and LA have their share of blame, but let’s face it, it’s not like Bush didn’t know the hurricane was coming and had to wait to be asked. He didn’t wait on other issues, did he? FEMA was in his control, and he mismanaged it. Obama can’t magically fix the leak, but he can light a fire under BP, as I said. Since OTHER oil companies and former oil company CEOs have come forward and said BP is not doing what they could and should be doing, I’m willing to take them at their word! When the oil companies are criticizing their own, it says all it needs to for me. Radish: say what? No way we know how to create hurricanes. Do you know the power involved??
Simon_Jester almost 14 years ago
Let’s not forget something folks….
Bush refused to interrupt his vacation for not only Katrina, but also the Southeast Asian Tsunami
But for Terry Schiavo’s law, he came home right NOW.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Sooky Rottweiler says; SPAMMER!!! WOOH WOOH WOO!
CorosiveFrog Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Nope; Check in the Sherpa section.
Today; Sooky is picky about food and brings my beer into it.
SuperGriz almost 14 years ago
“He is not a leader. He is a community organizer.”
Community organizers are leaders. Twit.