“Understanding of CO2 threat?” Not so much. For far too many people, and for politicians especially, the “Understanding” curve matches the “Action” curve. Indeed, now that I think of it, for those folks their “understanding” trends resolutely downward.
Toles is showing a very famous graph of carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere from the late 50’s to today as measured in Hawaii.(http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide.png). The level peaks every Spring because during the winter plant photosynthesis has been suppressed. Then in May the levels start to drop as photosynthesis (in the northern hemisphere) kicks in. But every year the CO2 levels edge higher and higher as humans dump more CO2 into the atmosphere than photosynthesis can remove. Since CO2 is one of the primary ‘greenhouse gasses’ that traps the sun’s energy in the form of heat anyone with half a brain will conclude that the “greenhouse effect” should be increasing, which all the data confirms that it is.
Interestingly, the greenhouse effect is what makes life on this planet possible. Without it the Earth would be frozen. The problem is that such huge quantities of CO2 are being dumped into the atmosphere in such a very short time (by historical/geological standards – see the graph) that the resulting increase in temperature is likely to occur faster than we can comfortably adjust to it (think droughts, flooded cities, huge financial cost, etc.). We won’t go extinct but many species will. And we will certainly suffer tremendous social, cultural and financial upheaval.
Climate deniers are a peculiar bunch that can probably be divided into two groups. First, there are those who through willful ignorance or cognitive blindness are simply unable to grasp the meaning of graphs such as the one Toles has replicated here. Then there are the much scarier group who understand perfectly well that what the scientists are saying is valid but for short-term financial gain are committed to sabotaging any attempts to fix the problem. I suspect that this later group includes many of our politicians who exploit the gullibility of the first group in order to keep their jobs.
There’s been no warming for 17+ years now. And the national polls show that its at or near the bottom of the list that people are concerned about.SQUIRREL!!!
Hi Harley! I knew GoreBull warming had to be forthcoming sooner or later. My man doesn’t disappoint! You have once again provided insightful and incisive commentary. It’s all nonsense, of course, especially when compared to Rp GG’s comment. So which one are you? Intentionally short term for financial gain? Or maybe you just don’t have the capacity to interpret scientific stuff. Do tell.
My friends and relatives say I’m too conservative. I carry an umbrella or rain coat if the weather service predicts rain. I check the spare tire often to make sure it’s inflated to the proper pressure. I leave early when the weather is stormy. I live below my means to assure that my retire savings will provide for me even if social security funds are torpedoed. I weigh all facts and view ideological based decisions skeptically …which excludes the irrational rantings of the two major political parties. I vote in every election for the individuals the I believe are the most knowledgeable in the long-term issues that matter to all of society. I go with evidence based policies myself and support politicians who do the same. As a conservative thinker, I cannot dismiss the evidence of climate change or its cause. I wonder why political conservatives aren’t as conservative?
Puleeze, Harley. Martins is not only correct, she actually understands the scientific method and lives with it on a day-today basis. You, on the other hand sit in your armchair and critique stuff you haven’t got a clue about. Get out a bit more. Actually study the evidence with an open mind. Oh, I forgot. It’s Harley GOREBULL warming we are dealing with here. Invincible willful ignorance on display…
I do not realy know why I keep doing this, perhaps I am masochistic by nature. But it has always seemed to me that the efforts to combat Rapid Global Climate Change are just one more reason to work hard and fast at heavily slowing down and eventually stopping the continued use of burning fosill fuels for both general energy and transporation. The reasons that I know of are:
(1) For the USA itself, helping to eliminate the use of such hydrocarbon materials obtained from unstable areas of the world (not just the middle east, but other areas as well). This would free the USA from getting involved in both stupid and useless wars just to ensure a continuing flow of such materials.
(2) This particular reason is often just skipped over totally by those that would have us continue the use of these very precious materials for just the purpose of burining them up into the atmosphere itself. Hydrocarbon materials are the very basis of our continuing civilization itself. They are used for the petro-chemical industry and therefore have a hand in the generation of almost all plastics. Think of just how much of such materials are used in you computer for instance?
Having a personal background in aerospace manufacturing, I can also state the vast uses of such materials for both lubricating materials for machines, and the cutting oil for the cooling of machining processes. Note that even the newer manufactuing uses of such processes as 3D printing use plastic types of materials. Heck, such materials are even used in medicines and the food industry! So they are far too precious to be just burned up into the atmosphere for just the generation of energy and transportation, especially when other means of achieving these goals of mankind are becomming more and more available all the time!!
(3) Then there is the simple process of the air breathing of such a species as our own. Burning these hydrocarbon materials up into our thin and precious atmosphere is slowly but surely killing millions upon millions of our people right here on this limited spaceship earth. There are even economic models that show that stopping the burning of such materials could almot be paid for by the benifits to the costs of the lung diseases caused by such burning to the health csare industry of ths country alone!
So, there are plenty of good reasons to stop the burning up of mankinds precious hydrocarbon materials up into our atmosphere that have nothing to do with Rapid Global Climate Change in itself. And indeed, (as the ultra conservatives keep saying over and over again) the climate of the earth itelf has changed drastically over time in the past.
However, geologic changes have taken some millions of years to make drastic changes in the earth itself. and even climate changes have taken thousands of years to change the eath’s climate in the past also. But the latest climate changes are taking place in only a couple of hundred years since the advent of the industiral revolution of mankind. So, it is NOT that such changes have taken place that is our human caused problem, but the RATE of such changes that show that we have had a direct affect in such changes!
Either we have to start to do things rapidly to work within the changes that we ourselves have caused, or/and work to slow and eventually stop our contibution ot such changes. If we do not, then our species is eventually doomed. Is that what we would wish upon our decendants? I think NOT!!!!
First you claim the hockey stick is a myth, when it has been decisively proven — and martens showed you as much. Then, when she correctly calls you on it, you dodge and try to claim it is religion.There’s only one reality-denying faith around here, and it ain’t marten’s.
The thing is this, those who refute science don’t care. The people who believe the anti-science group don’t care.The ones who DO Care, well, it’s already past the point of no return.These is going to be a an extinction.Earth will be rid of the animals and the Ticks, We are the Ticks.
The political argument over Global Warming no longer matters. Renewables are cheaper than coal. Now that it is a matter of real money, investors and utilities both are abandoning coal. Even voters who have bought the Denialist propaganda about Global Warming like saving money on electricity, just like there are people who hate Obamacare but love being insured under the ACA. Rapid improvements in batteries will soon make electric cars cheaper than gas guzzlers. We are following much the same path that we did on lead in gasoline paint and so on; on cigarettes causing cancer; on acid rain destroying forests; and so on. At some point, people start ignoring the junk science, and a bit later, the junk science collapses and dies.
Alexander the Good Enough almost 9 years ago
“Understanding of CO2 threat?” Not so much. For far too many people, and for politicians especially, the “Understanding” curve matches the “Action” curve. Indeed, now that I think of it, for those folks their “understanding” trends resolutely downward.
rpG Premium Member almost 9 years ago
Toles is showing a very famous graph of carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere from the late 50’s to today as measured in Hawaii.(http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide.png). The level peaks every Spring because during the winter plant photosynthesis has been suppressed. Then in May the levels start to drop as photosynthesis (in the northern hemisphere) kicks in. But every year the CO2 levels edge higher and higher as humans dump more CO2 into the atmosphere than photosynthesis can remove. Since CO2 is one of the primary ‘greenhouse gasses’ that traps the sun’s energy in the form of heat anyone with half a brain will conclude that the “greenhouse effect” should be increasing, which all the data confirms that it is.
Interestingly, the greenhouse effect is what makes life on this planet possible. Without it the Earth would be frozen. The problem is that such huge quantities of CO2 are being dumped into the atmosphere in such a very short time (by historical/geological standards – see the graph) that the resulting increase in temperature is likely to occur faster than we can comfortably adjust to it (think droughts, flooded cities, huge financial cost, etc.). We won’t go extinct but many species will. And we will certainly suffer tremendous social, cultural and financial upheaval.
Climate deniers are a peculiar bunch that can probably be divided into two groups. First, there are those who through willful ignorance or cognitive blindness are simply unable to grasp the meaning of graphs such as the one Toles has replicated here. Then there are the much scarier group who understand perfectly well that what the scientists are saying is valid but for short-term financial gain are committed to sabotaging any attempts to fix the problem. I suspect that this later group includes many of our politicians who exploit the gullibility of the first group in order to keep their jobs.
Reppr Premium Member almost 9 years ago
If the data don’t match your dire predictions, massage the data some more until it does. NOW the pause went away! How convenient.
Don Winchester Premium Member almost 9 years ago
There’s been no warming for 17+ years now. And the national polls show that its at or near the bottom of the list that people are concerned about.SQUIRREL!!!
lonecat almost 9 years ago
There was a very good show on CBC last night about ocean acidification. There has been no pause in that, and it’s certainly part of climate change.
twclix almost 9 years ago
Hi Harley! I knew GoreBull warming had to be forthcoming sooner or later. My man doesn’t disappoint! You have once again provided insightful and incisive commentary. It’s all nonsense, of course, especially when compared to Rp GG’s comment. So which one are you? Intentionally short term for financial gain? Or maybe you just don’t have the capacity to interpret scientific stuff. Do tell.
superposition almost 9 years ago
My friends and relatives say I’m too conservative. I carry an umbrella or rain coat if the weather service predicts rain. I check the spare tire often to make sure it’s inflated to the proper pressure. I leave early when the weather is stormy. I live below my means to assure that my retire savings will provide for me even if social security funds are torpedoed. I weigh all facts and view ideological based decisions skeptically …which excludes the irrational rantings of the two major political parties. I vote in every election for the individuals the I believe are the most knowledgeable in the long-term issues that matter to all of society. I go with evidence based policies myself and support politicians who do the same. As a conservative thinker, I cannot dismiss the evidence of climate change or its cause. I wonder why political conservatives aren’t as conservative?
twclix almost 9 years ago
Puleeze, Harley. Martins is not only correct, she actually understands the scientific method and lives with it on a day-today basis. You, on the other hand sit in your armchair and critique stuff you haven’t got a clue about. Get out a bit more. Actually study the evidence with an open mind. Oh, I forgot. It’s Harley GOREBULL warming we are dealing with here. Invincible willful ignorance on display…
frodo1008 almost 9 years ago
I do not realy know why I keep doing this, perhaps I am masochistic by nature. But it has always seemed to me that the efforts to combat Rapid Global Climate Change are just one more reason to work hard and fast at heavily slowing down and eventually stopping the continued use of burning fosill fuels for both general energy and transporation. The reasons that I know of are:
(1) For the USA itself, helping to eliminate the use of such hydrocarbon materials obtained from unstable areas of the world (not just the middle east, but other areas as well). This would free the USA from getting involved in both stupid and useless wars just to ensure a continuing flow of such materials.
(2) This particular reason is often just skipped over totally by those that would have us continue the use of these very precious materials for just the purpose of burining them up into the atmosphere itself. Hydrocarbon materials are the very basis of our continuing civilization itself. They are used for the petro-chemical industry and therefore have a hand in the generation of almost all plastics. Think of just how much of such materials are used in you computer for instance?
Having a personal background in aerospace manufacturing, I can also state the vast uses of such materials for both lubricating materials for machines, and the cutting oil for the cooling of machining processes. Note that even the newer manufactuing uses of such processes as 3D printing use plastic types of materials. Heck, such materials are even used in medicines and the food industry! So they are far too precious to be just burned up into the atmosphere for just the generation of energy and transportation, especially when other means of achieving these goals of mankind are becomming more and more available all the time!!
(3) Then there is the simple process of the air breathing of such a species as our own. Burning these hydrocarbon materials up into our thin and precious atmosphere is slowly but surely killing millions upon millions of our people right here on this limited spaceship earth. There are even economic models that show that stopping the burning of such materials could almot be paid for by the benifits to the costs of the lung diseases caused by such burning to the health csare industry of ths country alone!
So, there are plenty of good reasons to stop the burning up of mankinds precious hydrocarbon materials up into our atmosphere that have nothing to do with Rapid Global Climate Change in itself. And indeed, (as the ultra conservatives keep saying over and over again) the climate of the earth itelf has changed drastically over time in the past.
However, geologic changes have taken some millions of years to make drastic changes in the earth itself. and even climate changes have taken thousands of years to change the eath’s climate in the past also. But the latest climate changes are taking place in only a couple of hundred years since the advent of the industiral revolution of mankind. So, it is NOT that such changes have taken place that is our human caused problem, but the RATE of such changes that show that we have had a direct affect in such changes!
Either we have to start to do things rapidly to work within the changes that we ourselves have caused, or/and work to slow and eventually stop our contibution ot such changes. If we do not, then our species is eventually doomed. Is that what we would wish upon our decendants? I think NOT!!!!
Motivemagus almost 9 years ago
First you claim the hockey stick is a myth, when it has been decisively proven — and martens showed you as much. Then, when she correctly calls you on it, you dodge and try to claim it is religion.There’s only one reality-denying faith around here, and it ain’t marten’s.
pam Miner almost 9 years ago
The thing is this, those who refute science don’t care. The people who believe the anti-science group don’t care.The ones who DO Care, well, it’s already past the point of no return.These is going to be a an extinction.Earth will be rid of the animals and the Ticks, We are the Ticks.
Mokurai almost 9 years ago
The political argument over Global Warming no longer matters. Renewables are cheaper than coal. Now that it is a matter of real money, investors and utilities both are abandoning coal. Even voters who have bought the Denialist propaganda about Global Warming like saving money on electricity, just like there are people who hate Obamacare but love being insured under the ACA. Rapid improvements in batteries will soon make electric cars cheaper than gas guzzlers. We are following much the same path that we did on lead in gasoline paint and so on; on cigarettes causing cancer; on acid rain destroying forests; and so on. At some point, people start ignoring the junk science, and a bit later, the junk science collapses and dies.