I had a friend who had fought in WW II. He had such bad flashbacks that he nearly strangled his wife one night. After that, they slept in separate bedrooms.
My father served in Korea and he had flashbacks exactly like this as long as he lived. He never would talk about what they were about exactly, except that from occassional mumblings in his sleep they had something to do with someone sneaking into his tent in the middle of the night. Later in life, he turned to alcohol to help deal with them. It didn’t seem to work.
Don’t worry, Yukoneric. It’s easy enough to get post-traumatic stress disorder without being in a war. Any ordinary violent crime will do the job just as well.
mblase75, then based on your logic, we shouldn’t worry about smoking because we can get cancer without smoking cigarettes. Environmental factors will do the job just as well.
Flashbacks. After 40 years, I still have them. Not as badly as I did when I first came home from Vietnam, but still…
The eye-patch is worn to bed probably for tow reasons: 1. to protect the socket, bleeep can still get into the eye socket and cause pain (don’t go there, pundits, yes he can get something “in” his eye, and it still irritates/hurts), 2. having it in place has probably become such a habit for him that he no longer realized it is being worn.
I would like to know where Trudeau, that Hippy (Hehe!), gets all these good “soldier” ideas that hit so damned close to home?
mblase - and, of course, you have multiple references on hand to document “ordinary violent crimes” that have endured continuously for a year or more (i.e., the equivalent of a tour of duty in Iraq and/or Afghanistan)….
After a disastrous week, Trudeau has wisely decided to drop the Bush-bashing that cost Democrats the election. He returns to personal anecdotes from the lives of his fictional characters.
I wonder if Trudeau is aware of the irony in his decision? His despised classmate read the mood of the electorate far better than Trudeau did when he set about making fun of Bush’s memoir. Listen to this admission by an inveterate Bush mocker, Maureen Dowd:
“The book lacks the vindictive or vaporous tone of many political autobiographies. It’s peppered with endearing personal stories, like the time W. made a Rose Garden speech supporting a Palestinian state and his mother called afterward to ask sarcastically, ‘How’s the first Jewish president doing?’”
In their fight for the attention of politically distractable readers, the first round clearly goes to Bush. Trudeau had better find a new icon for W. Or at least retire him from the Doonesbury repertory, along with the Palin doll.
Ps. to Yuggib
You must understand that Trudeau is a liberal who hates war, but he’s too intelligent to pretend (as Neolib does) that wars don’t exist. Leo’s nightmare is the cartoonist’s way of acknowledging the tragic reality that war is a part of our lives and that a traumatized spouse can bring it even into the bedroom.
“Don’t worry, Yukoneric. It’s easy enough to get post-traumatic stress disorder without being in a war. Any ordinary violent crime will do the job just as well.”
I hate to tell you this, mblase75, but there is a difference in degrees of PTSD. Yes, you can get it without being in a “war.” Rape victims are commonly diagnosed with PTSD. However, I know of none who become as violent as the war cause PTSD victim. Waking up from a “bad dream” choking your wife is something I have only heard of from the combat veteran, not from others suffering from PTSD. That is not meant to take away from their suffering or to make it less than what it is.
I’m being sardonic. I have been reading Doonesbury since it first came out in the papers (and I have read Trudeau’s collection of strips back when he was doing this in college) and I also know he is anti-war. It probably would not hurt for more of us to be that way. I am, after 2 Purple Hearts, and a chest full of other worthless awards and decorations, and 18 plus years of my life wearing the OD and living in the armpits of the US and the world (before being medically retired for injuries that happened 16 years before.)
As for your contention that Trudeau “wisely decided to drop the Bush-bashing that cost the Democrats the election,” get real, for Pete’s sake! The strips are not drawn yesterday for publication today. Nor last week, either. I think that most cartoonists and the syndicates they work for, have about a 6 week (or more) lead time. Trudeau probably wrote and drew this sometime in late September.
Trudeau planned the strip to coincide with Bush’s memoir, and both works were meant to come out at election time.
Trudeau and I are both as anti-war as you are. All three of us differ from the Neolib pacifists who deny or avert their eyes from the historical experience of war—-a convenient excuse for not taking part in it.
How can you hate war if you don’t know what it is but only know it disturbs YOUR peaceful dreams?
Ps. @ Nelly, below
Neolibs and Chickenhawk fascists deserve each other. Between them, they manage to obscure historical reality (at least for themselves).
please add Chickenhawk fascists to your list, as they reflect the past administration’s penchant for sending young men and women to war and yet not serving when their time came
A year or so ago I went through one of the worst seiges of flashes for over ten years. Perfectly innocent trigger, someone “popped open” a plastic trash bag behind me. Took three months to get back to earth.
Several weeks ago spent some time searching a riverbank in the Arizona for a john wayne so I could open my ham and eggs. No sleep for three nights until I scrambled up some eggs for dinner.
They come, they go. Sometimes they seem very odd. Sometimes they are like a technicolor movie in dolby surround sound. Sometimes they are like listening to a Canned Heat song on a cassette recorder with a fading battery.
Not as bad as it once was but still there.
My girl decided she’d had enough a couple of years ago after 38 years. Just couldn’t take it any more. Once in a while I wish I could leave that easy.
None of these war-related anecdotes comes from J.A.D., Potrzebie. They’re all focused more or less directly on the topic of GT’s strip. J.A.D., bless his soul, was always struggling to come to the point. His erratic personality gave life to this cartoon forum. Most of us try to follow the lead clown, GT, but J.A.D. was so innocent that he often forgot he was clowning.
My wife was “understanding”- even on the rather rare occasions when she woke in the choke. I DID- after 35 years- find a psychologist who helped greatly on the flashbacks-that occurred while AWAKE, from sometimes 30 or so a week, to only a couple a month. I still transition often at night with “mumblings” etc as I drift toward REM sleep. Dreams and flashbacks aren’t the same thing, btw. In “flashbacks” you are there!
As to “war”. Those who hate war the most, are most often those who were good at it. It is those who avoided it, and the consequences, who are the real “war lovers”.
p.s. also notable how often gocomics causes my browser to crash, though it may be my slow IP, or conflict with other windows??
End this war! Stop slaughtering innocent men, women, and children who had nothing to do with 9/11 except being in the cross hairs of a crazed president who wanted to avenge his daddy. My brother did not deserve to come back in a box because people like Neocon are afraid of their own shadow.
To Legacyshooter: I said a prayer for you as I read your posting. Wish I could do more. Hang in there. Hope you are seeking medical help, too. Sorry I am so late, Hope you see this. Lord, let this man have a restful sleep tonight.
What, pray tell, is the definition of “neolib” as you all are using it?
The only definition I have found for “neoliberalism” is the old one from economics, quoting Wikipedia: “…internationally prevailing ideological paradigm that leads to social, cultural, and political practices and policies that use the language of markets, efficiency, consumer choice, transactional thinking and individual autonomy to shift risk from governments and corporations onto individuals and to extend this kind of market logic into the realm of social and affective relationships.”
This definition, based on an old definition of liberalism, sounds more like a free-marketeer, and it does not fit with the way “neolib” is being used here. Neoliberalism is not the opposite of neoconservatism. He who calls himself Neocon may well be a neoconservative, but I don’t think he is using “neolib” correctly. He might well be one of those at the same time he is a neocon; they are not mutually exclusive terms.
troodough is a typical pinko, liberal, canuck commie.
Canuck?? Trudeau was born in New York, United States of America. Perhaps you have him confused with Pierre Trudeau, who was the prime minister of Canada for a number of years.
I can’t answer that. I have to admit that Trudeau’s caricature rings true: Bush lost no sleep over his decision to respond with force when we were attacked on 9/11. How many Legacyshooters have been hurt as a result of his decision? More important, does he care? (His memoir doesn’t say)
I may have more respect for Obama who agonized over his decision to renew the original war against al Qaida, our enemy of 9/11. But if Obama is guided by the will of the people, then so was Bush.
War is hell, and the irrational choices we make in wartime can and should be second-guessed. Moreover, success doesn’t prove a president was right. Think how we’d judge Lincoln today if Lee had prevailed at Gettysburg. We’d blame Lincoln for misreading the “will of the people” and for sacrificing all those lives for nothing.
Ps. @DavyG. For my idiosyncratic use of “neolib,” see my avatar.
This must be one offensive comic. The Chicago Tribune has censored this week’s Doonebury – according to the Trib, “Doonesbury” is on vacation this week. Come to think of it, Gary Trudeau apparently takes a lot of one week vacations – at least according to the Chicago Tribune.
While the Tribune’s editorial pages claim to be free of influence from its radical right wing owner Sam Zell, it would appear that the comics editor is not.
Raise a stink folks. The Comics editor is Geoffrey Brown and his email is gfbrownATtribune.com – substitute the @ for AT.
pouncingtiger over 13 years ago
I thought Leo would warn Alex about his flashbacks.
Leo’s love for Alex is smothering her.
gimmickgenius over 13 years ago
He wears the eye-patch to bed? But do we want to see what’s under it…
Coyoty Premium Member over 13 years ago
I think he wears the patch for Alex’s sake.
pouncingtiger, there are no warnings for flashbacks.
grinstoya over 13 years ago
why take it off… ain’t gonna see nothing outa that eye anyway.
mr_gask over 13 years ago
Maybe not, but it would still get mighty itchy, and probably produce lesions if left on too long.
Sandfan over 13 years ago
The first two panels really seem to capture the fear and uncertainty of combat in a situation where the bad guys are not easily identified.
cdward over 13 years ago
I had a friend who had fought in WW II. He had such bad flashbacks that he nearly strangled his wife one night. After that, they slept in separate bedrooms.
Nemesys over 13 years ago
My father served in Korea and he had flashbacks exactly like this as long as he lived. He never would talk about what they were about exactly, except that from occassional mumblings in his sleep they had something to do with someone sneaking into his tent in the middle of the night. Later in life, he turned to alcohol to help deal with them. It didn’t seem to work.
Yukoneric over 13 years ago
And we’ve been fighting the longest war in our history…….
mblase75 over 13 years ago
Don’t worry, Yukoneric. It’s easy enough to get post-traumatic stress disorder without being in a war. Any ordinary violent crime will do the job just as well.
Chrisnp over 13 years ago
mblase75, then based on your logic, we shouldn’t worry about smoking because we can get cancer without smoking cigarettes. Environmental factors will do the job just as well.
summerdog86 over 13 years ago
Is this one a repeat? Anyone remember it?
lunatics_fringe Premium Member over 13 years ago
Repeat, July 09.
yuggib over 13 years ago
Flashbacks. After 40 years, I still have them. Not as badly as I did when I first came home from Vietnam, but still…
The eye-patch is worn to bed probably for tow reasons: 1. to protect the socket, bleeep can still get into the eye socket and cause pain (don’t go there, pundits, yes he can get something “in” his eye, and it still irritates/hurts), 2. having it in place has probably become such a habit for him that he no longer realized it is being worn.
I would like to know where Trudeau, that Hippy (Hehe!), gets all these good “soldier” ideas that hit so damned close to home?
NashvilleMac over 13 years ago
mblase - and, of course, you have multiple references on hand to document “ordinary violent crimes” that have endured continuously for a year or more (i.e., the equivalent of a tour of duty in Iraq and/or Afghanistan)….
:(
dbhaley over 13 years ago
After a disastrous week, Trudeau has wisely decided to drop the Bush-bashing that cost Democrats the election. He returns to personal anecdotes from the lives of his fictional characters.
I wonder if Trudeau is aware of the irony in his decision? His despised classmate read the mood of the electorate far better than Trudeau did when he set about making fun of Bush’s memoir. Listen to this admission by an inveterate Bush mocker, Maureen Dowd:
“The book lacks the vindictive or vaporous tone of many political autobiographies. It’s peppered with endearing personal stories, like the time W. made a Rose Garden speech supporting a Palestinian state and his mother called afterward to ask sarcastically, ‘How’s the first Jewish president doing?’”
In their fight for the attention of politically distractable readers, the first round clearly goes to Bush. Trudeau had better find a new icon for W. Or at least retire him from the Doonesbury repertory, along with the Palin doll.
Ps. to Yuggib
You must understand that Trudeau is a liberal who hates war, but he’s too intelligent to pretend (as Neolib does) that wars don’t exist. Leo’s nightmare is the cartoonist’s way of acknowledging the tragic reality that war is a part of our lives and that a traumatized spouse can bring it even into the bedroom.
yuggib over 13 years ago
mblase75 said, about 3 hours ago
“Don’t worry, Yukoneric. It’s easy enough to get post-traumatic stress disorder without being in a war. Any ordinary violent crime will do the job just as well.”
I hate to tell you this, mblase75, but there is a difference in degrees of PTSD. Yes, you can get it without being in a “war.” Rape victims are commonly diagnosed with PTSD. However, I know of none who become as violent as the war cause PTSD victim. Waking up from a “bad dream” choking your wife is something I have only heard of from the combat veteran, not from others suffering from PTSD. That is not meant to take away from their suffering or to make it less than what it is.
Too much personal experience with this.
yuggib over 13 years ago
Neocon,
I’m being sardonic. I have been reading Doonesbury since it first came out in the papers (and I have read Trudeau’s collection of strips back when he was doing this in college) and I also know he is anti-war. It probably would not hurt for more of us to be that way. I am, after 2 Purple Hearts, and a chest full of other worthless awards and decorations, and 18 plus years of my life wearing the OD and living in the armpits of the US and the world (before being medically retired for injuries that happened 16 years before.)
As for your contention that Trudeau “wisely decided to drop the Bush-bashing that cost the Democrats the election,” get real, for Pete’s sake! The strips are not drawn yesterday for publication today. Nor last week, either. I think that most cartoonists and the syndicates they work for, have about a 6 week (or more) lead time. Trudeau probably wrote and drew this sometime in late September.
It only seems to be “timely.”
dbhaley over 13 years ago
@yuggib
Trudeau planned the strip to coincide with Bush’s memoir, and both works were meant to come out at election time.
Trudeau and I are both as anti-war as you are. All three of us differ from the Neolib pacifists who deny or avert their eyes from the historical experience of war—-a convenient excuse for not taking part in it.
How can you hate war if you don’t know what it is but only know it disturbs YOUR peaceful dreams?
Ps. @ Nelly, below
Neolibs and Chickenhawk fascists deserve each other. Between them, they manage to obscure historical reality (at least for themselves).
annamargaret1866 over 13 years ago
algurka, that’s interesting. I don’t always read the comics until late, and I just thought everyone else was flagging the spammers.
cdward et al, a man who once worked with my husband had horrible flashbacks of his Vietnam tour. He and his wife divorced though.
Nelly55 over 13 years ago
Neocon
please add Chickenhawk fascists to your list, as they reflect the past administration’s penchant for sending young men and women to war and yet not serving when their time came
T Gabriel Premium Member over 13 years ago
A year or so ago I went through one of the worst seiges of flashes for over ten years. Perfectly innocent trigger, someone “popped open” a plastic trash bag behind me. Took three months to get back to earth. Several weeks ago spent some time searching a riverbank in the Arizona for a john wayne so I could open my ham and eggs. No sleep for three nights until I scrambled up some eggs for dinner. They come, they go. Sometimes they seem very odd. Sometimes they are like a technicolor movie in dolby surround sound. Sometimes they are like listening to a Canned Heat song on a cassette recorder with a fading battery. Not as bad as it once was but still there. My girl decided she’d had enough a couple of years ago after 38 years. Just couldn’t take it any more. Once in a while I wish I could leave that easy.
Potrzebie over 13 years ago
alrighty! Which one of you is J.A.D.? one of you vets is him, The writing smells of him!
cdhaley over 13 years ago
None of these war-related anecdotes comes from J.A.D., Potrzebie. They’re all focused more or less directly on the topic of GT’s strip. J.A.D., bless his soul, was always struggling to come to the point. His erratic personality gave life to this cartoon forum. Most of us try to follow the lead clown, GT, but J.A.D. was so innocent that he often forgot he was clowning.
Dtroutma over 13 years ago
My wife was “understanding”- even on the rather rare occasions when she woke in the choke. I DID- after 35 years- find a psychologist who helped greatly on the flashbacks-that occurred while AWAKE, from sometimes 30 or so a week, to only a couple a month. I still transition often at night with “mumblings” etc as I drift toward REM sleep. Dreams and flashbacks aren’t the same thing, btw. In “flashbacks” you are there!
As to “war”. Those who hate war the most, are most often those who were good at it. It is those who avoided it, and the consequences, who are the real “war lovers”.
p.s. also notable how often gocomics causes my browser to crash, though it may be my slow IP, or conflict with other windows??
Lilalover over 13 years ago
End this war! Stop slaughtering innocent men, women, and children who had nothing to do with 9/11 except being in the cross hairs of a crazed president who wanted to avenge his daddy. My brother did not deserve to come back in a box because people like Neocon are afraid of their own shadow.
bryan42 over 13 years ago
Too get off subject a bit, BD wore a helmet absolutely everywhere for 40+ years so why can’t another character always wear his patch?
Dragoncat over 13 years ago
And I thought nothing could be worse than PMS…
Mythreesons over 13 years ago
To Legacyshooter: I said a prayer for you as I read your posting. Wish I could do more. Hang in there. Hope you are seeking medical help, too. Sorry I am so late, Hope you see this. Lord, let this man have a restful sleep tonight.
mroberts88 over 13 years ago
Neo, how can Bush be anti war, when he led us into a pointless war?
DavyG over 13 years ago
What, pray tell, is the definition of “neolib” as you all are using it?
The only definition I have found for “neoliberalism” is the old one from economics, quoting Wikipedia: “…internationally prevailing ideological paradigm that leads to social, cultural, and political practices and policies that use the language of markets, efficiency, consumer choice, transactional thinking and individual autonomy to shift risk from governments and corporations onto individuals and to extend this kind of market logic into the realm of social and affective relationships.”
This definition, based on an old definition of liberalism, sounds more like a free-marketeer, and it does not fit with the way “neolib” is being used here. Neoliberalism is not the opposite of neoconservatism. He who calls himself Neocon may well be a neoconservative, but I don’t think he is using “neolib” correctly. He might well be one of those at the same time he is a neocon; they are not mutually exclusive terms.
DavyG over 13 years ago
tcambeul “Genius” writes:
troodough is a typical pinko, liberal, canuck commie.
Canuck?? Trudeau was born in New York, United States of America. Perhaps you have him confused with Pierre Trudeau, who was the prime minister of Canada for a number of years.
dbhaley over 13 years ago
@mroberts88
I can’t answer that. I have to admit that Trudeau’s caricature rings true: Bush lost no sleep over his decision to respond with force when we were attacked on 9/11. How many Legacyshooters have been hurt as a result of his decision? More important, does he care? (His memoir doesn’t say)
I may have more respect for Obama who agonized over his decision to renew the original war against al Qaida, our enemy of 9/11. But if Obama is guided by the will of the people, then so was Bush.
War is hell, and the irrational choices we make in wartime can and should be second-guessed. Moreover, success doesn’t prove a president was right. Think how we’d judge Lincoln today if Lee had prevailed at Gettysburg. We’d blame Lincoln for misreading the “will of the people” and for sacrificing all those lives for nothing.
Ps. @DavyG. For my idiosyncratic use of “neolib,” see my avatar.
dlauber Premium Member over 13 years ago
This must be one offensive comic. The Chicago Tribune has censored this week’s Doonebury – according to the Trib, “Doonesbury” is on vacation this week. Come to think of it, Gary Trudeau apparently takes a lot of one week vacations – at least according to the Chicago Tribune.
While the Tribune’s editorial pages claim to be free of influence from its radical right wing owner Sam Zell, it would appear that the comics editor is not.
Raise a stink folks. The Comics editor is Geoffrey Brown and his email is gfbrownATtribune.com – substitute the @ for AT.
DavyG over 13 years ago
Yes, idiosyncratic, although that’s not the word I would have picked.