Tommy……It’s free you idiot!And don’t give me this “They are too poor to even get to the DMV”! Those people don’t seem to have any problem showing an ID to sign up for Welfare and Food Stamps.If voting isn’t that important to them, then maybe they shouldn’t.
‘Polite Company’ do not associate with people that are so backward that they can’t prove whether they were born or hatched. Democrats will gather these people and transport them past the DMV (not stopping of course) to the Voting Booth and tell them who to vote for. Next, they steer them to a Congressional Lobbyist’s Buffet Table with foods that they have not tasted for 2 years.
Being able to vote and to buy a gun are both civil rights. Not everyone is eligible to do either. Would everyone on left and right agree that the same degree of identification ought to be enough to entitle you to do either? I am not specifying what type of ID it might be. - At present in this country, it is much easier to legally buy a gun in some places than it is to vote; in other places it is easier to vote than to buy a gun. - Who would agree that (a) to buy a gun or vote in a given jurisdiction you should have to register yourself as a potential buyer / voter, and (b) present verifiable identification at the point of buying / voting? Because you might be buying a gun anywhere in the United States, but can only vote in one, it might be best if the gun buyers were registered nationally, but I suppose it could be done state-by-state or locally just as well, thus allowing different eligibilities in different states to continue. Though buying away from home in that case would be complicated. Isn’t it curious that it sometimes seems that the same people who worry about fraudulent voting are not equally worried about fraudulent gun buying? I don’t know that either is actually as big a problem as it is made out to be in some circles. Not much evidence for voter fraud effecting election outcomes. Not much evidence that ineligible gun buyers are getting their guns from people don’t know who they are selling them to, or would be deterred from selling them guns if the law held them (the sellers) responsible for check the buyer’s eligibility. As far as I know, all states have always required ID at the polls. Even if that ID is not a document. The question is, what form does the ID take, and how much does that requirement slow down the process, thus creating lines, or otherwise deterring people from voting? Whatever the standard, it ought to be national for national elections. New standards ought to be introduced slowly, so that no one is caught unawares with a a “this would have been enough last time, but today you need this.” There should always be a least one presidential election delay, so that voters can be told “we’ll accept this ID today, just like in the old days, but next time you are going to have to have this other thing. Here are instructions on how to get one of these.” Personally, I would go back to the idea that voting is a duty like jury service, and failure to vote be punishable by fine. That’s what you had here in Virginia in 1776, believe it or not. Of course, in those days, all the candidates offered all-you-can drink free rum punch at the polls as well. Voter turnouts of 80-90% were not uncommon. I like the idea of high voter turnout, but getting rid of the rum punch was probably a good idea. No paper ID was required in 1776, but I think you had to swear you were who and what you said you were, and thus voter fraud was a species of perjury.
Just get that original birth certificate, original Social Security card, two proofs of residence and pay the $54 to stand in line for 7 hours like we do in Florida.
It is voter suppression, pure and simple. If it were just “voter ID,” it wouldn’t include banning voting on Sundays, closing a bunch of polling places, banning early registration of teenagers, and making it illegal to keep polls open past the deadline even if there are voting irregularities and long lines of people who haven’t been allowed to vote yet. You can search all you want and not find a case of voter impersonation fraud, but the 120,000 people turned away from the polls in Florida by Rick Scott are real people. Imagine if he’d had North Carolina’s new power to close those polls while people were still in line!
Read today’s Doonesbury. All the right wing trolls on this page are well described in that comic. Fortunately for humanity, they are a self extinguishing breed.
I am for a national voter ID which with a swipe of a card would indicate if you are a valid voter, indicate if you have already voted and what election you last voted in. Get the ID requirements out of the hands of local biased legislators. I am not suggesting that national legislators are beyond being biased, but let it be the same across the country.
Getting that original birth certificate can be difficult and expensive. I had one which is how I got my first passport in 1970. But I lost it and I’ve not been able to learn online (I live across the country from my birth state and haven’t been there in decades) how to replace that document.
At least I was born in a hospital where they issued birth certificates. My mother (now in her 80s) was born at home and it wasn’t until she was in her 60s that she learned that the date she always thought was her birthday was wrong.
If the state is willing to assist people like my Mom in certifying her birth, then this isn’t voter suppression and if it were easier for me to obtain my birth certificate, I’d also agree. But then I have a good job and am able to pay for it; not true for every North Carolina resident.
In Colorado, you need to be registered, but you don’t have to show any kind of ID. You swear that you are who you are. And when our Republican secretary of state shook down and sent intimidating letters to recent citizens, accusing them of felony, it turned out he was harrassing perfectly legal citizens. Didn’t find one illegal vote. There is simply not the level of fraud that would justify disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of legitimate voters to prevent. It’s because the voters being challenged tend to vote Democratic, and for VERY good reason.
“It isn’t free, not in all places. And some cannot get around easily to obtain them. Also there is no reason for it except to inhibit voters.”Spot on. NC is providing the ID for free, but you need to pay for documents to get the ID. Conservatives who rail against government spending money to solve non-existent problems should be outraged.
Where I vote in California, as I vote every time, and therefore maintain my original voter registration (which was so long ago that I do not remember if I had to have an official ID or not). I now just give the voting people my full name, and they then look me up, and give me my ballot. Is it the same for others here?
Notice how the right wingers are all for having to show ID to vote? They are so concerned that all we Democrats are out there voting multiple times (much easier than admitting your candidates just are good enough to get elected).OK, if we agree that IDs should be issued (free) to all voters, will you agree to doing away with these electronic voting machines (that are probably responsible for much more voting fraud than those few casting multiple ballots)?I’ll guess not, since the people who make those machines, (often shown to be inaccurate and easily tampered with, and leaving no paper trail) tend to be GOP supporters, and if the machines are crooked, they are crooked in your favor.
It’s not just the photo ID. By this law now in North Carolina if you are standing in line when the polling hours end, tough luck, polling hours are over and counties by law cannot extend those hours. Now one guess as to where the precincts are that don’t get enough voting machines to keep people from having to stand in line for hours? And why the Republican governor doesn’t want certain counties to be able to make up for how their citizens get stiffed?
“Just because you attend a school doesn’t mean you are a resident of that State.” Sorry, it does if you want to register in that place you live most of the year. I live in a college town and the students are most certainly eligible to vote.
ConserveGov: In West Texas (not to be confused with West, Texas which has a problem of not enough regulation), “going to the DMV” is a 350 mile round trip to appear before a functionary out of the 1930s. The identities you mention can be obtained routinely close to home, not the strange ones such as not permitting state issued student IDs. (Can’t have educated voters, they might question the Fox tales.)
“some things never change – unfortunately…”If you feel that way, then kindly explain to why the right wing is so very much against change, esp. change for the better?
That’s nothing! In Chicago we have 2 million registered voters and 3 milliion votes cast each election! How, you ask? Well, each election day the dead come back to vote too! So, grow up!
And the day will come when Republicans will say, like their support of cigarettes, it never happened or is in the past but here they are doing it all over. Martin Luther King again? Conservatives must be a different species and their consistency proves it. Perhaps this is the century we discover ourselves? We are not one and the Civil War never ended.
The left are no strangers to voter suppression:.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1375024/Gore-campaign-trying-to-block-military-votes.html.http://www.wnd.com/2000/12/2256/
oscar54 while doing research for a city election in 2009 i found of the 70 people i know in my precinct who voted in 11/08 were 2 dead people [02/08 and 07/08] that is only 3%
in order to have a case you have to grab them in the act when i found a few months later that dead had voted nothing could be done
Don Winchester Premium Member over 10 years ago
Tom Troll once again trying to keep the brainwashing going.
ConserveGov over 10 years ago
Tommy……It’s free you idiot!And don’t give me this “They are too poor to even get to the DMV”! Those people don’t seem to have any problem showing an ID to sign up for Welfare and Food Stamps.If voting isn’t that important to them, then maybe they shouldn’t.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member over 10 years ago
‘Polite Company’ do not associate with people that are so backward that they can’t prove whether they were born or hatched. Democrats will gather these people and transport them past the DMV (not stopping of course) to the Voting Booth and tell them who to vote for. Next, they steer them to a Congressional Lobbyist’s Buffet Table with foods that they have not tasted for 2 years.
Doughfoot over 10 years ago
Being able to vote and to buy a gun are both civil rights. Not everyone is eligible to do either. Would everyone on left and right agree that the same degree of identification ought to be enough to entitle you to do either? I am not specifying what type of ID it might be. - At present in this country, it is much easier to legally buy a gun in some places than it is to vote; in other places it is easier to vote than to buy a gun. - Who would agree that (a) to buy a gun or vote in a given jurisdiction you should have to register yourself as a potential buyer / voter, and (b) present verifiable identification at the point of buying / voting? Because you might be buying a gun anywhere in the United States, but can only vote in one, it might be best if the gun buyers were registered nationally, but I suppose it could be done state-by-state or locally just as well, thus allowing different eligibilities in different states to continue. Though buying away from home in that case would be complicated. Isn’t it curious that it sometimes seems that the same people who worry about fraudulent voting are not equally worried about fraudulent gun buying? I don’t know that either is actually as big a problem as it is made out to be in some circles. Not much evidence for voter fraud effecting election outcomes. Not much evidence that ineligible gun buyers are getting their guns from people don’t know who they are selling them to, or would be deterred from selling them guns if the law held them (the sellers) responsible for check the buyer’s eligibility. As far as I know, all states have always required ID at the polls. Even if that ID is not a document. The question is, what form does the ID take, and how much does that requirement slow down the process, thus creating lines, or otherwise deterring people from voting? Whatever the standard, it ought to be national for national elections. New standards ought to be introduced slowly, so that no one is caught unawares with a a “this would have been enough last time, but today you need this.” There should always be a least one presidential election delay, so that voters can be told “we’ll accept this ID today, just like in the old days, but next time you are going to have to have this other thing. Here are instructions on how to get one of these.” Personally, I would go back to the idea that voting is a duty like jury service, and failure to vote be punishable by fine. That’s what you had here in Virginia in 1776, believe it or not. Of course, in those days, all the candidates offered all-you-can drink free rum punch at the polls as well. Voter turnouts of 80-90% were not uncommon. I like the idea of high voter turnout, but getting rid of the rum punch was probably a good idea. No paper ID was required in 1776, but I think you had to swear you were who and what you said you were, and thus voter fraud was a species of perjury.
rockngolfer over 10 years ago
Just get that original birth certificate, original Social Security card, two proofs of residence and pay the $54 to stand in line for 7 hours like we do in Florida.
ARodney over 10 years ago
It is voter suppression, pure and simple. If it were just “voter ID,” it wouldn’t include banning voting on Sundays, closing a bunch of polling places, banning early registration of teenagers, and making it illegal to keep polls open past the deadline even if there are voting irregularities and long lines of people who haven’t been allowed to vote yet. You can search all you want and not find a case of voter impersonation fraud, but the 120,000 people turned away from the polls in Florida by Rick Scott are real people. Imagine if he’d had North Carolina’s new power to close those polls while people were still in line!
tcolkett over 10 years ago
Read today’s Doonesbury. All the right wing trolls on this page are well described in that comic. Fortunately for humanity, they are a self extinguishing breed.
Justice22 over 10 years ago
I am for a national voter ID which with a swipe of a card would indicate if you are a valid voter, indicate if you have already voted and what election you last voted in. Get the ID requirements out of the hands of local biased legislators. I am not suggesting that national legislators are beyond being biased, but let it be the same across the country.
Harolynne Premium Member over 10 years ago
Getting that original birth certificate can be difficult and expensive. I had one which is how I got my first passport in 1970. But I lost it and I’ve not been able to learn online (I live across the country from my birth state and haven’t been there in decades) how to replace that document.
At least I was born in a hospital where they issued birth certificates. My mother (now in her 80s) was born at home and it wasn’t until she was in her 60s that she learned that the date she always thought was her birthday was wrong.
If the state is willing to assist people like my Mom in certifying her birth, then this isn’t voter suppression and if it were easier for me to obtain my birth certificate, I’d also agree. But then I have a good job and am able to pay for it; not true for every North Carolina resident.
ARodney over 10 years ago
In Colorado, you need to be registered, but you don’t have to show any kind of ID. You swear that you are who you are. And when our Republican secretary of state shook down and sent intimidating letters to recent citizens, accusing them of felony, it turned out he was harrassing perfectly legal citizens. Didn’t find one illegal vote. There is simply not the level of fraud that would justify disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of legitimate voters to prevent. It’s because the voters being challenged tend to vote Democratic, and for VERY good reason.
Uncle Joe Premium Member over 10 years ago
“It isn’t free, not in all places. And some cannot get around easily to obtain them. Also there is no reason for it except to inhibit voters.”Spot on. NC is providing the ID for free, but you need to pay for documents to get the ID. Conservatives who rail against government spending money to solve non-existent problems should be outraged.
frodo1008 over 10 years ago
Where I vote in California, as I vote every time, and therefore maintain my original voter registration (which was so long ago that I do not remember if I had to have an official ID or not). I now just give the voting people my full name, and they then look me up, and give me my ballot. Is it the same for others here?
rpmurray over 10 years ago
Strangely enough, the same people that tell me there is no voter fraud are the same ones that claim Bush stole the election from Gore in Florida.
McSpook over 10 years ago
Wrong specifically how?Not enough just to say “you’re wrong.”Put up or shut up.
McSpook over 10 years ago
Notice how the right wingers are all for having to show ID to vote? They are so concerned that all we Democrats are out there voting multiple times (much easier than admitting your candidates just are good enough to get elected).OK, if we agree that IDs should be issued (free) to all voters, will you agree to doing away with these electronic voting machines (that are probably responsible for much more voting fraud than those few casting multiple ballots)?I’ll guess not, since the people who make those machines, (often shown to be inaccurate and easily tampered with, and leaving no paper trail) tend to be GOP supporters, and if the machines are crooked, they are crooked in your favor.
amaryllis2 Premium Member over 10 years ago
It’s not just the photo ID. By this law now in North Carolina if you are standing in line when the polling hours end, tough luck, polling hours are over and counties by law cannot extend those hours. Now one guess as to where the precincts are that don’t get enough voting machines to keep people from having to stand in line for hours? And why the Republican governor doesn’t want certain counties to be able to make up for how their citizens get stiffed?
Doughfoot over 10 years ago
National ID cards are a conservative bugbear. You friend obviously isn’t a “real” conservative. - I tend to agree with him on this one.
Doughfoot over 10 years ago
“Just because you attend a school doesn’t mean you are a resident of that State.” Sorry, it does if you want to register in that place you live most of the year. I live in a college town and the students are most certainly eligible to vote.
hippogriff over 10 years ago
ConserveGov: In West Texas (not to be confused with West, Texas which has a problem of not enough regulation), “going to the DMV” is a 350 mile round trip to appear before a functionary out of the 1930s. The identities you mention can be obtained routinely close to home, not the strange ones such as not permitting state issued student IDs. (Can’t have educated voters, they might question the Fox tales.)
pirate227 over 10 years ago
Either you cons are too ignorant to recognize who is being targeted by these id laws or… nope, I’m going with ignorant.
McSpook over 10 years ago
“some things never change – unfortunately…”If you feel that way, then kindly explain to why the right wing is so very much against change, esp. change for the better?
William Bednar Premium Member over 10 years ago
That’s nothing! In Chicago we have 2 million registered voters and 3 milliion votes cast each election! How, you ask? Well, each election day the dead come back to vote too! So, grow up!
FourcentsSr over 10 years ago
And the day will come when Republicans will say, like their support of cigarettes, it never happened or is in the past but here they are doing it all over. Martin Luther King again? Conservatives must be a different species and their consistency proves it. Perhaps this is the century we discover ourselves? We are not one and the Civil War never ended.
echoraven over 10 years ago
The left are no strangers to voter suppression:.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1375024/Gore-campaign-trying-to-block-military-votes.html.http://www.wnd.com/2000/12/2256/
oneoldhat over 10 years ago
oscar54 while doing research for a city election in 2009 i found of the 70 people i know in my precinct who voted in 11/08 were 2 dead people [02/08 and 07/08] that is only 3%
in order to have a case you have to grab them in the act when i found a few months later that dead had voted nothing could be done