Return the government funds you receive from American tax payers,then do what you want. You wonder why the church is losing members? Try delivering health care even handedly.
I wonder how you would feel about this if the Catholic church, like the Jehovah’s Witlesses, had a religious objection to blood transfusion and was pressuring the government to exempt its hospitals from performing the procedure or its secular employees from having it covered.
Why don’t the Republicans listen to the Catholic bishops when they advocate an end to capital punishment, a fair minimum wage, an end to pre-emptive war and health care for all as a human right?
“Believers” (as per Runar’s point) should be allowed to follow their faith and die if they choose, but in this country and under our Constitution, they shouldn’t be allowed to inflict their beliefs on others, period.
^right, abortions didn’t exist until birth control failed. Harken back to the days when divorce was shamful and couples stayed together in desparately unhappy marriages for decades “for the sake of the children”.
promiscuity didn’t exist until birth control either.
it’s june cleaver in the 1950’s. that’s irish in drag.
There are few who do not believe and accept that in order to establish a safe and secure society, Nation and world, that there must be law and order; the question is whose “Law” and Order”? Few would disagree that in nature there is no right or wrong to any sexual encounter or relationship, it just is. In the world of humans we have established an artificial dichotomy between “Us” and Nature as to what are acceptable behaviors and as to what are not acceptable behaviors. Acceptable and unacceptable human behaviors have varied immensely over the course of human history. Each different set of acceptable behaviors and the enforcement of those non-acceptable behaviors, in their given time and place, were accepted as the norm. Norms were established primarily on the moral and ethical beliefs of the doctrines and dogmas of the dominate religion/church and so enforced by a Theocratic State. Separation of theocratic laws and State secular laws did not truly come into their own until the Age of Reason in the18th century. One primary line of enlightenment comes from Spinoza, which in its political form adhered to: “democracy; racial and sexual equality; individual liberty of lifestyle; full freedom of thought, expression, and the press; eradication of religious authority from the legislative process and education; and full separation of church and state”. This period of enlightenment promoted science and intellectual interchange and opposed superstition, intolerance and abuses in church and state. Since then there has been an ongoing battle between those who would impose their religious beliefs, and those who would impose their secular beliefs, upon us all. I ask then, “Why can we not all find a common ground, one that is filled with respect and love, which would protect and allow each of our brothers and sisters equal equality under the law? Samuel Clemens noted, “In Nature there are no indecencies,” which is quite correct. It was father James, however, who sorted that out when he asked and answered, “Did God create Nature? Yes. Did God write the Bible? Yes. Then there can be no conflict between the Nature He created and the Bible He wrote.” It is then only man who creates the conflict by trying to coerce others into ways and beliefs they do not believe. Therefore let those who would freely follow Christ do so and those who would freely follow another way do so without discrimination or persecution from either Gods laws or secular laws…and in due time we shall all know the truth.
Irish, birth control is not evil and never has been. Forcing people to have children they do not want, by denying them control over their own lives, is both evil AND stupid. Let’s encourage people to plan when to have babies, and to have the number they want. Unwanted babies are hardly needed on an overburdened planet.
“…..With the introduction of birth control came wide spread promiscuity, divorce rates skyrocketed, abortion entered, and immorality…..”.And prior to the widespread availability of prophylactics (condoms), sexually transmitted diseases flourished, killing and maiming individuals in their prime, breaking up marriages, overloading health-care facilities, and costing billions world wide for loss of productivity.
Hey Charlie I thought your god told you it was a sin to bare false witness because you just told a HUGE lie. But hey don’t believe I will just post a link to the truth for ya here: http://theweek.com/article/index/202388/catholics-in-crisis
To IrishEddieOhara & Bishop Lori: Your analogy-argument (AA), Bishop William Lori of Bridgeport Connecticut, is an excellent and very correct “Debate Class” argument. However we are not in debate class and as such your AA is moot for the following reason (correct me if I am wrong): Any establishment, whether commercial or non-profit (Churches being the one exception that I know of), open for business to the general public must abide by all local, State, and Federal laws and regulations or be in violation thereof. Subsequently your AA would apply only to “Private Clubs,” and would require that exclusive memberships be issued to all members. Anyone not a member would not be eligible for Private Club services.Since the revised HHS mandate applies only to Catholic businesses open to the general public and, as noted above, your AA is therefore moot…unless the Catholic Church choses to convert all of its businesses so affected into Private Clubs open to Members Only.Rebuttal welcome.
agate1 over 12 years ago
Return the government funds you receive from American tax payers,then do what you want. You wonder why the church is losing members? Try delivering health care even handedly.
leweclectic about 12 years ago
It’s the thought process that’s lacking with the current isolated and seculded Pope. See http://www.jesusandmo.net/2012/02/15/costs/.
runar about 12 years ago
I wonder how you would feel about this if the Catholic church, like the Jehovah’s Witlesses, had a religious objection to blood transfusion and was pressuring the government to exempt its hospitals from performing the procedure or its secular employees from having it covered.
Zuria Premium Member about 12 years ago
yeah, and ‘personal business’ might be your taste for altar boys.
runar about 12 years ago
Why don’t the Republicans listen to the Catholic bishops when they advocate an end to capital punishment, a fair minimum wage, an end to pre-emptive war and health care for all as a human right?
Dtroutma about 12 years ago
“Believers” (as per Runar’s point) should be allowed to follow their faith and die if they choose, but in this country and under our Constitution, they shouldn’t be allowed to inflict their beliefs on others, period.
fritzoid Premium Member about 12 years ago
It’s not your “personal business”, it’s not “Church business”, it’s “the hospital business,” and the goverment has an obligation to set standards.
rockngolfer about 12 years ago
Tax the churches.
dannysixpack about 12 years ago
^right, abortions didn’t exist until birth control failed. Harken back to the days when divorce was shamful and couples stayed together in desparately unhappy marriages for decades “for the sake of the children”.
promiscuity didn’t exist until birth control either.
it’s june cleaver in the 1950’s. that’s irish in drag.
wanna buy a bridge to the next borough over?
leweclectic about 12 years ago
There are few who do not believe and accept that in order to establish a safe and secure society, Nation and world, that there must be law and order; the question is whose “Law” and Order”? Few would disagree that in nature there is no right or wrong to any sexual encounter or relationship, it just is. In the world of humans we have established an artificial dichotomy between “Us” and Nature as to what are acceptable behaviors and as to what are not acceptable behaviors. Acceptable and unacceptable human behaviors have varied immensely over the course of human history. Each different set of acceptable behaviors and the enforcement of those non-acceptable behaviors, in their given time and place, were accepted as the norm. Norms were established primarily on the moral and ethical beliefs of the doctrines and dogmas of the dominate religion/church and so enforced by a Theocratic State. Separation of theocratic laws and State secular laws did not truly come into their own until the Age of Reason in the18th century. One primary line of enlightenment comes from Spinoza, which in its political form adhered to: “democracy; racial and sexual equality; individual liberty of lifestyle; full freedom of thought, expression, and the press; eradication of religious authority from the legislative process and education; and full separation of church and state”. This period of enlightenment promoted science and intellectual interchange and opposed superstition, intolerance and abuses in church and state. Since then there has been an ongoing battle between those who would impose their religious beliefs, and those who would impose their secular beliefs, upon us all. I ask then, “Why can we not all find a common ground, one that is filled with respect and love, which would protect and allow each of our brothers and sisters equal equality under the law? Samuel Clemens noted, “In Nature there are no indecencies,” which is quite correct. It was father James, however, who sorted that out when he asked and answered, “Did God create Nature? Yes. Did God write the Bible? Yes. Then there can be no conflict between the Nature He created and the Bible He wrote.” It is then only man who creates the conflict by trying to coerce others into ways and beliefs they do not believe. Therefore let those who would freely follow Christ do so and those who would freely follow another way do so without discrimination or persecution from either Gods laws or secular laws…and in due time we shall all know the truth.
ARodney about 12 years ago
Irish, birth control is not evil and never has been. Forcing people to have children they do not want, by denying them control over their own lives, is both evil AND stupid. Let’s encourage people to plan when to have babies, and to have the number they want. Unwanted babies are hardly needed on an overburdened planet.
leweclectic about 12 years ago
Well…Thanks, I do get “rightly befuddled” on occasion as I am, at heart, just an old “Peacenik” form my hippie days.
Gypsy8 about 12 years ago
“…..With the introduction of birth control came wide spread promiscuity, divorce rates skyrocketed, abortion entered, and immorality…..”.And prior to the widespread availability of prophylactics (condoms), sexually transmitted diseases flourished, killing and maiming individuals in their prime, breaking up marriages, overloading health-care facilities, and costing billions world wide for loss of productivity.
STLDan about 12 years ago
Hey Charlie I thought your god told you it was a sin to bare false witness because you just told a HUGE lie. But hey don’t believe I will just post a link to the truth for ya here: http://theweek.com/article/index/202388/catholics-in-crisis
leweclectic about 12 years ago
To IrishEddieOhara & Bishop Lori: Your analogy-argument (AA), Bishop William Lori of Bridgeport Connecticut, is an excellent and very correct “Debate Class” argument. However we are not in debate class and as such your AA is moot for the following reason (correct me if I am wrong): Any establishment, whether commercial or non-profit (Churches being the one exception that I know of), open for business to the general public must abide by all local, State, and Federal laws and regulations or be in violation thereof. Subsequently your AA would apply only to “Private Clubs,” and would require that exclusive memberships be issued to all members. Anyone not a member would not be eligible for Private Club services.Since the revised HHS mandate applies only to Catholic businesses open to the general public and, as noted above, your AA is therefore moot…unless the Catholic Church choses to convert all of its businesses so affected into Private Clubs open to Members Only.Rebuttal welcome.