Tom Toles for May 02, 2010

Great cartoon, and the comment is even better.

This fall everyone in Arizona should throw evenyone connected with this bill out of office (GOP, DEM, INDP) it doesn’t matter, they wasted the taxpayers time and money on something that even the people who have to enforce it don’t want. It’s time we took action against lame politicans, I know there are a lot of them, and it would be hard work, but it would be worth it.

She’ll be profiled and sent back.

Send her back - she’s French!

OK, What’s next: State Passports?

sure protect all our borders.

As long as there are crappy jobs that Americans don’t want to do, and its worse south of the border, there will be illegal immigration. The Mexicans keep asking us to curb our demand for drugs, well, they need to give their people a living wage.

Harley they just want open borders and the slavery that that creates. Humanitarian my @__!

The hype around this law is overblown dramatically! Section 264 in the Immigration and Nationalization Act specifically states that Immigrants are REQUIRED to carry information regarding their immigration AT ALL TIMES. So for legal immigrants, nothing really changes except they may have to show a police officer their card, and ONLY if they have been pulled over for breaking another law FIRST.

First, all that Arizona has done is taken Federal law already written an enabled state and local authorities to enforce it. In order for that to happen the state must enact the same Federal law but on the state level. That is just what Arizona did.

The illegals are crying about this the loudest because they know that they are finally going to be held accountable for breaking our laws…something our Federal government has been grossly negligent in doing.

The illegals are coming over because of the Mexican government’s inaction in solving its domestic problems and reigning in the drug cartels. The citizens of Arizona and the illegal immigrants are both victims of Mexico’s “a problem passed on is a problem solved” way of handling their domestic issues.

The pressure should be heavy on Mexico to get their house in order.

correct me if I have a bad reading of this bill…. does it make unlawful the practice of hiring off the curb, and getting day labor from the parking lot of Home depot?

(no one is talking abt THIS part of the law….).

WHO is HIRING these people? and if they are stopped f/hiring people to exploit..will AZ join the rest of the republic and get rid of Right to work laws and those supporters?

People get mad at the government for trying to enforce the border(and it’s their job), and in the same breath get mad at employers for not trying to enforce the border(and it’s not their job at all).

Is it possible the government is trying to blame employers so they can avoid the issue? I mean seriously? The root of the problem is your local Ben & Jerry’s for hiring a Mexican to scoop ice cream?

Give me your white, your rich, yearning to be “free market” and subjugate others to banks and brokers with politicians under their thumbs.

While you’re at it praise those in the past who cut the budgets to do enforcement, whined about too many taxes (too hire the cops), but built a fence of Chinese steel to screw up wildlife patterns and not affect illegal immigration in the least.

Those who hire the illegals SELL and BUY their drugs shall remain free to operate, keep cost margins down, and profits up!

BTW, that silly Constitution says that states CAN NOT regulate migration, from other states, OR foreign lands, in order to protect the RIGHTS of CITIZENS, who shall NOT be required to carry and show proof of THEIR LEGAL STATUS AS CITIZENS!

Yes, arrest and deport illegal aliens, AND those who hire them in violation of laws that need some serious study and revision in some cases. Yes, legalize marijuana, tax it, and take away that large sector of “illegal” operations producing a product that is NOT a narcotic (medically or chemically) falsely labeled by a bunch of neurotics, or profit taking pharmaceutical producers who put MUCH more dangerous junk on the streets, and advertise it on TV!

It is about OUR LEGAL RIGHTS! Get it straight folks! When CITIZENS fear false interrogation, or arrest and confinement- while doing NOTHING WRONG- the LAW is WRONG!

Let’s face it, there is no good solution to the illegal immigration problem. Even if we stationed armed guards every 50 feet along the southern border, there is still the unguarded Pacific coastline, plus the east coast and the Canadian border. We can’t even control drug smuggling! We continue to pour billions of dollars into the “War on Drugs,” but the drug trade continues to grow and become more violent, forcing even more people to flee across the border.

Incentives for illegal immigration include escape from poverty, war and violence, and it will continue as long as the US is a better place to live and work than the places the migrants come from. At best, we can hope to control some of it and find out who is coming and what they’re doing, but it will be expensive to do even that.

fennec’s link says there is no immigration problem… http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/29/AR2010042903646.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR

Olfart, I’m trying to understand what you’re saying here. Mexicans will cross the border less if the pay goes up?

And why do you insist on imprisoning people for hiring an illegal when you don’t even want people to keep the illegal out? It’s the gov’ts’ job to do that, no one else.

Is Arizona trying to remove all of the people of color OR are they looking for those EVIL people who are perpetrators of the ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’ disaster?

If Arizona is trying to eliminate these EVIL people…. the other states in the US should join them or they will be inundated with these EVIL people.

The ‘Wheel in the Sky Keeps on turnin’…

Most of the Hispanic folks I know are neither rapists nor plunderers. A lot of the white middle-class people I know have serious, untreated mental health problems.

Neo, good point. However, not all illegals are Mexican.

harley! What is so laughable is that you cannot even converse in our language and yet you type away, attempting to sway thinking human beings minds with your poorly educated drivel.

Serious question alert–have you ever had your IQ tested? Again, for the love of all things sane…we need to see the numbers.

Hey Neocon, try reading (it’s OK if you move your lips when you do) and comprehending the US Constitution yourself. The line you reference is NOT in the Constitution. It’s in the Declaration of Independence, which has *no* force of law.

You know, sir, you’ve just set a fine example of why the teabaggers find themselves mocked as ignorant and illiterate by so many others. Are you perhaps the fellow in this article? http://tinyurl.com/yhznva7

BTW, NeoconMan, not only is the language you cite not in the Constution but, rather, in the Declaration of Independence (which is not a legal document), but the Declaration actually says “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator, etc.” And yes, the Constitution does provide certain protections to aliens, such as due process of law, according to a long line of Supreme Court cases.

Olfart, there has been amazingly little enforcement of immigration law against employers. I agree, it would help. But it alone will not solve the problem. Can you imagine the effort and expense it would take to go after every small-time employer, say monthly, to check their payroll records?

“A goof and a jester.” Don’t flatter yourself, harley.

With such a lofty IQ, one could think you would be capable of loading that squirt gun of yours with words worth reading.

Humorous, though, how your use of “bs” in either post could be swapped.

fennec…relax. Schumacher-matos (How does a man get a surname extension, BTW?) says current measures are working and the Arizona “clarification” is unnecessary…Is that better? Wish you secular-Libs were as fastidious about the “proof” of evolution…as you are about communication on the cartoon-internet-board.

On a lighter side, this rendition of Lady Liberty kinda reminds me of Bob the Squirrel!

I don’t agree with harley most (all) of the time, but I don’t see the point of calling him an idiot. I would argue against what he says, but I don’t question his IQ. It’s up to him to show if he’s smart.

^ Some people – on both sides – want to vent, and I guess that’s their right. Me, I prefer discussion. And I think we should try to act in a way that will bring about the community we desire. I desire a community of mutual respect, in so far as that’s possible. I will try to respect you and I hope you will try to respect me. But I’m not going to pretend to agree just for the sake of agreement. And in practical terms, those who live my the insult die by the insult.

I don’t live in Arizona, and I can’t speak to the situation of those who do live there. It seems pretty clear that illegal immigration is a problem. How much, well, I don’t know. Perhaps it’s been overblown, but as I say, I don’t live in a border state.

I do suspect, however, that the problem involves a whole system – not just those who are here illegally, but also those who employ them.

And I also worry that some of the response – on this list, and elsewhere – shades into attitudes that I find offensive. Whenever anyone (I’m not talking about harley here) starts using phrases like “third world animals”– then we’re not dealing with reasoned arguments any more.

^ I do think I can have a reasoned argument with some Republicans. And I hope they will try to have a reasoned argument with me.

I am not going to call you a Lout and Brute, bullwinkle. I usually agree with your positions, though sometimes you’re a little, shall I say, enthusiastic.

OK, I get it. harley with his lofty IQ labels others, while me pointing out that his is an idiot is name calling.

lonecat, argue about what he says? How do you argue (with any purpose or measurable gain) with a person who believes the gulf oil hemorrhage is a non event? harley insists that naturally occurring oil seepage and this current spill represent a no net loss environmentally…

As far as the immigration reform issue, harley does accurately point out that we are a nation of laws, and being here illegally is well, against the law. From a fairness perspective, one would think all citizens [current and potential] of our great Republic would be happy to “play by the rules” (of law).

Sadly, life is not fair. I resent the fact that some cheat our system for personal gain. However, I choose not to demonize nor will I indict ANY culture or race of humankind for the aberrant behavior of the representative few w/in their ranks.

Sort of like we all seem to do when it comes to all things con/lib, Dem/Repub.

zeke – I think we’re pretty much on the same side. If harley calls you an idiot he is both rude and wrong.

Harley – I’m willing to try to have a discussion, but I’m not interested in insults. Do you really think that this oil spill is nothing special, nothing to get upset about? What’s your argument?

^^ harley – interesting point. I had never thought about it, but I suppose there is some natural seepage. But in order to find your argument convincing I would need to know more. Are we talking about comparable areas (or perhaps volumes)? What about the concentration? A gallon of oil widely dispersed is less dangerous, I suppose, than a gallon oil over a square foot of ocean surface. How quickly does the oil dissipate? Probably the concentration makes a difference to the rate of dissipation. So a thick coating over a small area might last a long time, while the same amount thinly coating a large area might dissipate quickly. In addition, if X amount of something is no great problem, it doesn’t follow that 2X of that something is no problem, so if we are simply doubling what nature does naturally, there still could be a problem. I’m no scientist, and perhaps none of these questions makes sense, but I would like to know before I decide that there is no particular concern.

Just what is “illegal” really? Any legality to the US having stolen 1/3 of Mexico in 1846? Guess not. But I can’t blame Mexicans for still considering all the land from Texas to California to be part of their own country. It was, and should have stayed that way. “Bigger pens for slaves,” said Lincoln, and he was right. Oh, but he was a liberal.

harley – thanks for your posts. They don’t, however, answer my questions.

Here is a passage from your third link, from sciencedaily:

“Oil that finds its way to the surface from natural seeps gets broken down by bacteria and ends up as carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. So knowing the amount of fossil fuel that turns to carbon dioxide naturally is important for understanding how much humans may be changing the climate by burning oil and gas. Using a technique they developed in the early 1990s to help explore for oil in the deep ocean, Earth Satellite Corporation scientists found that there are over 600 different areas where oil oozes from rocks underlying the Gulf of Mexico. The oil bubbles up from a cracks in ocean bottom sediments and spreads out with the wind to an to an area covering about 4 square miles. “On water, oil has this wonderful property of spreading out really thin,” said Mitchell. “A gallon of oil can spread over a square mile very quickly.” So what ends up on the surface is an incredibly thin slick, impossible to see with the human eye and harmless to marine animals.”

This passage, I think, suggests that some of my questions are to the point. The natural seepage is slow and it seems to produce a very thin film over a very large area, and that film then dissipates. The problem with the current spill, like the Exxon Valdez spill, is that it’s very fast in large concentrations over a much smaller area in a thick film. When you see the pictures of the ocean wildlife covered in oil, that’s not from a naturally produced seepage thin film, it’s from a thick concentration.

I’m not necessarily saying that there should be no ocean-drilling. I do think it should be as safe as it can be. Am I right that eleven people died in this accident? I like ocean wild-life, but I like people even more (well, sometimes).

I have read that some safety features could have been used in this rig that weren’t. I don’t know if that’s true, but if so, then certainly it’s worth asking why they weren’t.

If another country had any sane politicians, why would they allow them to immigrate to the US? They’d be crazy to lose such a rare commodity!