" The arms trade is pretty lucrative and practiced by a lot of countries."Wasn’t Israel the intermediary country that sold weapons to the Iranians on behalf of the Regan Administration in the Iran-Contra scandal?
Note to Boehner and the betrayal brigade in Congress; we are not living in Israel, or the Middle East, the American voter needs to reject you all. You like Bibi so much, move there.
Hmm, Bibi has degrees from MIT and Harvard, maybe “W” will sneak him into Skull and Bones society as a guest?
Has anyone got an explaination why the republican elephant has changed the 3 stars from pointing up to with the stars point is down?Is there any significance to that?
I eagerly await AGRESTIC to make his appearance on the only toon he posts on to set me straight.
You sound anxious. Are you anxious? From the sarcastic tone, it’s almost as if you’re afraid of a good argument.
And this may be the only toon we cross paths on, but all you need to do is click on my name to know that you’re wrong even in your parenthetical statement. Sloppy.
You all would be at war now if it was his choice.
Absolutely. After all he specifically said: …
Ah, yes, he said those words in this one speech. In the same speech, he also invoked Esther, whose claim to fame was orchestrating a preemptive attack against enemies of the Jewish people. This from a prime minister who has regularly made noises about preemptive strikes against Iran and actually carried out preemptive strikes against Syria and other countries in the region. Which is, short and simple, warmongering.
All of this rhetoric, mind you, comes from a prime minister whose country, by current estimates, has 80 to 300 nuclear warheads. Why aren’t the number more clear? Because Israel strives to keep its nuclear weapons program secret.
[Bibi:] The alternative to this bad deal is a much better deal.
Funny that the closest he comes to naming a “better deal” is by essentially saying Iran’s nuclear infrastructure should be kept in a stranglehold, whether it’s for civilian purposes or not.
Me, I think all nuclear weapons everywhere should be scrapped. No exceptions. Nuclear power as it is currently formulated should be scrapped until there are scalable technologies that won’t go Chernobyl or Fukushima or Three Mile Island on us. But for Netanyahu—a leader who has shown no compunction about bombing civilians, no compunction about bombing neighboring countries, no compunction about keeping nuclear-equipped ICBMs at the ready—for this guy to come and give the speech he did does nothing more than expose the hypocrisy of his leadership.
In any case, it seems that his mission to scuttle the current talks failed. All sides actually sitting at the table claim to have brushed his speech off as nothing new from him, and are proceeding from where they already were. Let’s hope the talks are successful, we prevent yet another country from having nuclear weapons, and we do it without the falling bombs that neocons love so much.
If our number one adviser to the president wasn’t Iranian, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
You really ought to have your user name revoked on the grounds of false advertising.
I’m assuming you’re talking about Valerie Jarrett, who, yes, was born in Iran—_to African American U.S. citizen parents_. And when she was 5 they all moved to London, and then a year or so after that moved to the U.S. But hey, maybe we should all be running around calling John McCain a Panamanian?
But let’s say you’re talking about some other Iranian American. Well, the large majority of Iranians who came to the U.S. did so because they are hostile to Iran’s theocracy. So if anything, they might be more hawkish about the whole thing.
The long and the short of it is that: 1) you are baselessly impugning a whole ethnic group; and 2) you’re looking for another angle to promote some obsessive birtherist fever dream.
You can expect to be lambasted roundly for just mentioning a different slant on what you heard.
Hunh. So you’re owning up to your own lambasting ways? Novel!
not enough that know anything about the real history
This is especially hilarious, considering all the work you’ve done in this and other forums to deny the import of history (for instance regarding slavery, Civil Rights, etc.). I suppose picking and choosing history that fits your current view is the name of the game, eh?
I’ve clicked on your profile. The only other posts of yours are on… La Cucaracha
Check again. Still sloppy.
Keep on posting. They’re so pathetic, devoid of any truth, that they’re laughable
It’s telling that this is all you could come up with, rather than actual facts to counter what I’ve posted. It’s also a pattern for you.
Are you denying Netanyahu invoked Esther in his speech? That Israel has killed many, many civilians through aerial bombings in the Palestinian Territories? That Israel has bombed Syria multiple times in what it itself has characterized as preemptive attacks? That Israel is well known to have nuclear weapons and ICBMs?
Maybe at some point, when the truth presents itself to you, you’ll actually deal with it straight on and we can have a proper debate. One can only hope.
dtroutma: When they write left to right, it is Labour. Before 1947, they were a British protectorate. Now they are a US one, even though the Likud thinks they should run their protector. .The US corporate media refuses to acknowledge the existence of J-Street, even though they have more members than the unregistered foreign lobbyist, AIPÅC. AIPAC has more money, and that’s all that counts. After all, AIPAC gets some of theirs from US taxpayers by way of Israel, the rest from millionaire casino owners.
Hmm…you’ll have to point out my saying such a thing, because I distinctly don’t remember it. (Unless you’re secretly indiethink?) On the other hand, that is something you’ve said to me on more than one occasion. With the very post I’m replying to, in fact. And hey, nice touch with the Yiddish insults in a thread such as this one. Is that your way of trying to “shush” (a word you like so very much) people who disagree with you?
BTW, most of what I learned comes from my 92 year old friend that still bears the tattoo on her forearm
You do realize that you don’t have a monopoly on having friendships (not to mention family relations) with Holocaust survivors, don’t you? The majority of whom, BTW, are those “liberal progressives” you hate so much.
I don’t know where you get the idea that I ‘hate’ liberal progressives…I never said that.
Not in so many words, but you do use the term as a derogatory epithet.
Have you had X experiences? Do you have X family members?
I’ve had and have some, yes. And as you and I are not the same person, I bet I’ve got a whole lot of experiences and family members that you don’t have, and vice versa. So?
Just how is it that you think it is up to you to “correct” everyone’s opinion
I would refer you to your own statement that liberal progressives are “extremely misguided and out of touch with reality,” as well as your many posts here telling folks how wrong they are. We fundamentally disagree. It’s just that I can tolerate exploring that disagreement, while you seem to be saying you’d rather that those who disagree with you shut up.
and then tell anyone they formed this opinion wrongly from their life experiences
You misunderstood me. I’m saying that individual experiences are not the end-all and be-all of larger social and historical truths. As an illustration, I refer you to the great director Akira Kurosawa’s classic film Rashomon, in which a single event is recounted in contradictory ways by different people.
No one is allowed a different world view in your realm of life and then you, and it seems ‘hiram’, too, have the right to declare how wrong and hateful everyone else is?
For a person such as you, who enjoys making blanket statements about “misguided” “liberal progressives” (just as an example), I assume you’re making this statement because you see it in yourself.
No loss trying to at least get you to allow others to have their own opinion.
Um, yeah, of course people can have their own opinions. What do you think this whole thread is about? Are you saying that by vocally disagreeing with you, I’m telling you that you can’t have your own opinion? That’s absurd on its face.
By the by, while people can hold different opinions, they’re not entitled to their own facts. So, in fact, climate change is real, slavery was key to building U.S. capitalism, Starbucks serves coffee, Israel’s military has killed countless civilians in its occupation of the Palestinian territories, and while the sky is sometimes blue it tends to change colors during sunrise and sunset.
So why do you make it your business to make my business anywhere yours?
When you post to a forum I frequent, then I may post back if I disagree. Just as you post your disagreements with folks. Why is that so difficult to parse?
[To martens:] Just because someone makes a comment does not mean you have to respond in any way. If you do respond in a way that is as abrasive…"
Here’s where it’s instructive to share a few choice quotes from this thread. See if you can guess who posted them:• “Your comment is dripping with venom”• “There are too many Neville Chamberlains in America”• “Of course you do. A very liberal progressive university, too. Right?” [Because, you know, “liberal progressive” is a derogatory term to this person.]• “you and hiram need to get together and have a good yentafest” [not above gendered insults, apparently]• “your pontifications” [this is a word that said commenter is particularly enamored with]• “self-righteous turds”
And to think, all of this in a single strip’s thread! It’s actually kind of entertaining when they’re strung together this way.
* * *
today, I’m having a very cruddy day
In all seriousness, I’m sorry to hear it. I hope that your suffering eases and you’re up to full health quickly.
That’s what the Dems think anyway. They are busting their humps to get him defeated. Maybe if they were willing to spend all the money that they have directed to that purpose to properly arm the Kurds we would see more progress in that area of the world.
I had to look up pontificate since you use it so often.“express one’s opinions in a pompous and dogmatic way.”
Okay, I thought it had something to do with a pope but as that’s been clarified, would you mind explaining something else to me?… as I note you stated you were part of a debating team in college:When one constantly refers to one’s life experiences and hardships when they have no relevance to the subject, which fallacy is that; the ‘appeal to […] fallacy’?…wisdom? …sympathy fallacy? …pity fallacy?Perhaps the ’I’ve-had-a-hard-life-built-on-blood-sweat-and-tears-so-none-of-you-know-better’ fallacy?
I’m learning so much from sueamarlucan’s vast experience and wisdom:
Hypocrisy:the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do : behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel
the government full of liberal progressives decide that the children MUST be taught better than our elders can teach us
Well, there’s a twisting of history. “Liberalism” back then was actually an ideology that has been taken on these days by (particularly libertarian) conservatives: i.e., the notion of the stand-alone rational individual. You know, the sort of notion that Ayn Rand embraces. (Not to mention that they had a racist sense of the superiority of whiteness—it was white folks who would teach civilization to the “savage Indian”.) And “progressivism” back then also looked a whole lot different than it does today: Teddy Roosevelt, that famous Republican big-stick-carrier was a prominent example of that brand of progressivism. Likening your “liberal progressives” of today with what happened around residential schools is like trying to equate Jim Crow Democrats with a Democratic leader such as John Lewis (who had his skull cracked open in Selma fighting for Civil Rights)—they’re diametrically opposed.
pontificators that still think you are wrong about everything you have lived and experienced in your life
I haven’t heard anyone here deny anyone’s personal experiences, yet you repeatedly trot out that lie. (And yes, it’s reached the status of lie because you’ve been reminded over and over that it’s not the case but persist in repeating that basic line.)
I was in a blue recliner watching the towers fall on 9/11.
And others, who fundamentally disagree with you, were running from the smoke and rubble or watching from their rooftops. By your standards, this should make them more correct than you, no?
Being pontificated to and talked down to because my opinion is not just like theirs is insulting, yet they cannot see that they are insulting at all.
You keep equating being disagreed with with being insulted. They’re not the same thing. Calling people “self-righteous turds,” on the other hand…
when THEY decide they need to ‘correct’ me, I take it as a personal affront and attack
Ah, I see, so you do equate being disagreed with with being insulted. I suppose that explains a lot of your reaction.
A comment forum is not an invitation to a debate.
Um, actually, it very much is. Particularly a forum such as one that runs under a political cartoon.
Reading a comment on a comment forum does not mean you know enough about anyone to judge them
Please remind yourself of this when posting your own comments. (And what I and others here have done is to reply specifically to your comments. You have an online personality and online opinions and when you post them to a highly public forum, they’re fair game for responses. Just as comments from all the rest of us are.)
Even when I ignore agrestic and those such as hiram
You keep claiming to do this. When do you do this?
they have judged that I should not be making comments
Hmm…two posts, two lies. (Sorry. Have to call them for what they are.) Who has ever told you that you should not comment? Again, I and others have repeatedly tried to disabuse you of this notion, but you keep repeating it. But hey, if you can give a quote and a date for us to check, I’ll stand corrected.
It might surprise you that I have also agreed with agrestic on many subjects and even left a comment in agreement. Why would that comment not be shredded? …because I am agreeing with them and then they are happy. They only feel the need to shred your comment when they don’t like my comment.
Ah, now you cut to the heart of what it means to disagree and debate. Why would I “shred” a statement you make that I agree with? Just to be a jerk? We could turn this around: It might surprise you that I have also agreed with sueamarlucan on many subjects and even left a comment in agreement. Why would that comment not be called pontificating? …because I am agreeing with you and then you are happy.
What I found is a whole world of self-righteous, self-appointed mouthpieces
Are you self-diagnosing? Because the amount of (self-)righteous indignation that comes from your posts is really quite high.
Not only that, but they feel every right to step in and get involved when it is absolutely none of their business and without any data to make an informed and/or cogent decision in the matter.
Here’s a reminder: You are posting to a public forum which gets read by probably at least hundreds of people each day. You are making public pronouncements. And when you post public pronouncements that are controversial or just plain wrong, there’s a strong likelihood you’ll get a reply in that same public forum. This is not your own private playground
was again told that I had no business saying anything that did not jibe with what lalo said
Again, please point to evidence for this statement, with quotes and dates. It doesn’t exist, because no one has said such a thing to you, but still—if you’re going to make the claim, back it up.
They are much nicer than the animals I have run across in these “comment” forums that are supposed to be open to all comments
The one person on these comment forum who seems to be willing to toss actual persona insults around (“animals”, “turds”, “pontificators”) is the person I am currently replying to. And yes, these comment forums are open to all comments (within reason—let loose a string of the 7 Forbidden Words and your post will probably be taken down posthaste). But this means that these forums are also open comments in response to other comments. You seem to have no problem posting at other folks in a bad-tempered way, so why seek to shut others down?
But because I am not out there with my fist in the air complaining about how the whites have treated everyone so terrible.
Except that you were just complaining about the fact that you (I presume it was you) were yanked away from family by a white-led government. Or are you now saying you’re grateful for that? The cognitive dissonance runs strong in your statements.
You have taken the position that if we do not believe just like lalo does we should be silenced
Seriously, why do you continue with this line? It’s patently false (i.e., a fabrication, also known as a lie). Have you actually convinced yourself this is the case? It’s really quite baffling.
much of the liberal progressive message of today is more harmful to us ‘minorities’ than the message of those mean racist conservatives
We completely disagree on this front. The problem is, I tend to bring up solid evidence for my side of the argument and you, well…you generally don’t.
You know, hard work not handouts. Self-reliance. A good education that you work your way through.
Please tell that to the college-educated folks who are now finding it more difficult to get well-paying jobs. Or to the mothers and fathers who don’t get to see their kids because they’re working three jobs in order to be able to put food on those kids’ plates. Or to the hard-working people who have their well-paying union jobs cut only to be offered their same exact non-unionized jobs back for just a fraction of what they’d been paid before. Of course, if we were to say no handouts, we should also say that for wealthy heirs, right? Hey, Koch brothers, start from scratch! Hey, Waltons, you too!
I’m sick and I am sick and tired of people telling me I should be outraged by the history of my cultures.
You can be whatever you want. I frankly don’t care. But for you to imply that I and others should not be outraged at historic and continued oppression, well, I’d say that’s rather hypocritical of you.
That is what I hear you saying. Sit down, shut up.
You’d best get your ears checked.
We know better than you for you. No you don’t and you never will.
You don’t even know who this “we” is that you speak of. If you did, you might not be so free with such statements. Of course, we’ll continue to fundamentally disagree. And that will get expressed here. In this public forum. Where people often discuss their disagreements. Because that’s what a place like this is for.
(By the way, it does seem that you enjoy these continued arguments. Maybe they provide a sort of catharsis for you. Happy to be of service!)
You take it for granted that because of my ethnic background
What is with this line? Hiram makes no mention of your ethnic background, and neither has anyone else—you just keep offering it. What Hiram is saying is that you may have your opinions, but they very often don’t stand up to factual scrutiny. This has nothing whatsoever to do with ethnic backgrounds. In fact, we just have to take your word regarding everything you say about yourself in the first place.
Better than you have attempted to hold me back and failed
From my perspective, that’s not the goal here at all. It’s to counter your right-wing echo-chamber misinformation. It’s not about you personally. It’s about the ideas you express here. Though you’ve very much worked to make it about you.
Come back when you are ready to hear the life story of someone…
I’m being quite serious here when I say that there are plenty of oral historians out there who would very much like to hear and record that story. If you haven’t already, I’d suggest getting in touch with someone to do that. University, family member, etc.
I know I’m late to this party (gosh it sounds like fun) but I’d just like to make one little comment. Speaking from the left, I’m all in favor of hard work and education and service to the country. The idea that liberals and leftists don’t believe in hard work and education and service is just wrong. We also believe that people should have a decent opportunity to profit from their hard work and an opportunity to use their education. And when people need help, we think help should be there. But I resist very vehemently the idea that the left and liberals are in favor of laziness and handouts. It just ain’t so.
simply because most people think mixed-heritage people should be liberal progressives, leftists, whatever you want to call it
Well, then you and they drew the wrong lesson, because nobody here was objecting to you as a “mixed-heritage” person posting what you posted. I and others have always been, and continue to be, responding to opinions that we disagree with and straight-up misinformation.
But if all your family members were in on this and ideologically agree with you, it does explain your own tendency to take offense when folks disagree with you—you’re simply not used to it happening in the rest of your life.
It’s also interesting that a variety of members of the family decided to post in such a hostile manner to you, who were nothing less than empathetic in your posts to sue. I wonder what was behind that.
Jason Allen about 9 years ago
" The arms trade is pretty lucrative and practiced by a lot of countries."Wasn’t Israel the intermediary country that sold weapons to the Iranians on behalf of the Regan Administration in the Iran-Contra scandal?
Dtroutma about 9 years ago
Note to our real friends in Israel: VOTE LABOR!
Note to Boehner and the betrayal brigade in Congress; we are not living in Israel, or the Middle East, the American voter needs to reject you all. You like Bibi so much, move there.
Hmm, Bibi has degrees from MIT and Harvard, maybe “W” will sneak him into Skull and Bones society as a guest?
Dtroutma about 9 years ago
BTW: when will Bibi let UN inspectors take a look at HIS nuclear program, or sign onto a non-proliferation pact?
pam Miner about 9 years ago
Has anyone got an explaination why the republican elephant has changed the 3 stars from pointing up to with the stars point is down?Is there any significance to that?
agrestic about 9 years ago
I eagerly await AGRESTIC to make his appearance on the only toon he posts on to set me straight.
You sound anxious. Are you anxious? From the sarcastic tone, it’s almost as if you’re afraid of a good argument.
And this may be the only toon we cross paths on, but all you need to do is click on my name to know that you’re wrong even in your parenthetical statement. Sloppy.
You all would be at war now if it was his choice.
Absolutely. After all he specifically said: …
Ah, yes, he said those words in this one speech. In the same speech, he also invoked Esther, whose claim to fame was orchestrating a preemptive attack against enemies of the Jewish people. This from a prime minister who has regularly made noises about preemptive strikes against Iran and actually carried out preemptive strikes against Syria and other countries in the region. Which is, short and simple, warmongering.
All of this rhetoric, mind you, comes from a prime minister whose country, by current estimates, has 80 to 300 nuclear warheads. Why aren’t the number more clear? Because Israel strives to keep its nuclear weapons program secret.
[Bibi:] The alternative to this bad deal is a much better deal.
Funny that the closest he comes to naming a “better deal” is by essentially saying Iran’s nuclear infrastructure should be kept in a stranglehold, whether it’s for civilian purposes or not.
Me, I think all nuclear weapons everywhere should be scrapped. No exceptions. Nuclear power as it is currently formulated should be scrapped until there are scalable technologies that won’t go Chernobyl or Fukushima or Three Mile Island on us. But for Netanyahu—a leader who has shown no compunction about bombing civilians, no compunction about bombing neighboring countries, no compunction about keeping nuclear-equipped ICBMs at the ready—for this guy to come and give the speech he did does nothing more than expose the hypocrisy of his leadership.
In any case, it seems that his mission to scuttle the current talks failed. All sides actually sitting at the table claim to have brushed his speech off as nothing new from him, and are proceeding from where they already were. Let’s hope the talks are successful, we prevent yet another country from having nuclear weapons, and we do it without the falling bombs that neocons love so much.
agrestic about 9 years ago
If our number one adviser to the president wasn’t Iranian, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
You really ought to have your user name revoked on the grounds of false advertising.
I’m assuming you’re talking about Valerie Jarrett, who, yes, was born in Iran—_to African American U.S. citizen parents_. And when she was 5 they all moved to London, and then a year or so after that moved to the U.S. But hey, maybe we should all be running around calling John McCain a Panamanian?
But let’s say you’re talking about some other Iranian American. Well, the large majority of Iranians who came to the U.S. did so because they are hostile to Iran’s theocracy. So if anything, they might be more hawkish about the whole thing.
The long and the short of it is that: 1) you are baselessly impugning a whole ethnic group; and 2) you’re looking for another angle to promote some obsessive birtherist fever dream.
agrestic about 9 years ago
You can expect to be lambasted roundly for just mentioning a different slant on what you heard.
Hunh. So you’re owning up to your own lambasting ways? Novel!
not enough that know anything about the real history
This is especially hilarious, considering all the work you’ve done in this and other forums to deny the import of history (for instance regarding slavery, Civil Rights, etc.). I suppose picking and choosing history that fits your current view is the name of the game, eh?
agrestic about 9 years ago
I’ve clicked on your profile. The only other posts of yours are on… La Cucaracha
Check again. Still sloppy.
Keep on posting. They’re so pathetic, devoid of any truth, that they’re laughable
It’s telling that this is all you could come up with, rather than actual facts to counter what I’ve posted. It’s also a pattern for you.
Are you denying Netanyahu invoked Esther in his speech? That Israel has killed many, many civilians through aerial bombings in the Palestinian Territories? That Israel has bombed Syria multiple times in what it itself has characterized as preemptive attacks? That Israel is well known to have nuclear weapons and ICBMs?
Maybe at some point, when the truth presents itself to you, you’ll actually deal with it straight on and we can have a proper debate. One can only hope.
hippogriff about 9 years ago
dtroutma: When they write left to right, it is Labour. Before 1947, they were a British protectorate. Now they are a US one, even though the Likud thinks they should run their protector. .The US corporate media refuses to acknowledge the existence of J-Street, even though they have more members than the unregistered foreign lobbyist, AIPÅC. AIPAC has more money, and that’s all that counts. After all, AIPAC gets some of theirs from US taxpayers by way of Israel, the rest from millionaire casino owners.
agrestic about 9 years ago
Hmm…you’ll have to point out my saying such a thing, because I distinctly don’t remember it. (Unless you’re secretly indiethink?) On the other hand, that is something you’ve said to me on more than one occasion. With the very post I’m replying to, in fact. And hey, nice touch with the Yiddish insults in a thread such as this one. Is that your way of trying to “shush” (a word you like so very much) people who disagree with you?
BTW, most of what I learned comes from my 92 year old friend that still bears the tattoo on her forearm
You do realize that you don’t have a monopoly on having friendships (not to mention family relations) with Holocaust survivors, don’t you? The majority of whom, BTW, are those “liberal progressives” you hate so much.
agrestic about 9 years ago
I don’t know where you get the idea that I ‘hate’ liberal progressives…I never said that.
Not in so many words, but you do use the term as a derogatory epithet.
Have you had X experiences? Do you have X family members?
I’ve had and have some, yes. And as you and I are not the same person, I bet I’ve got a whole lot of experiences and family members that you don’t have, and vice versa. So?
Just how is it that you think it is up to you to “correct” everyone’s opinion
I would refer you to your own statement that liberal progressives are “extremely misguided and out of touch with reality,” as well as your many posts here telling folks how wrong they are. We fundamentally disagree. It’s just that I can tolerate exploring that disagreement, while you seem to be saying you’d rather that those who disagree with you shut up.
and then tell anyone they formed this opinion wrongly from their life experiences
You misunderstood me. I’m saying that individual experiences are not the end-all and be-all of larger social and historical truths. As an illustration, I refer you to the great director Akira Kurosawa’s classic film Rashomon, in which a single event is recounted in contradictory ways by different people.
No one is allowed a different world view in your realm of life and then you, and it seems ‘hiram’, too, have the right to declare how wrong and hateful everyone else is?
For a person such as you, who enjoys making blanket statements about “misguided” “liberal progressives” (just as an example), I assume you’re making this statement because you see it in yourself.
No loss trying to at least get you to allow others to have their own opinion.
Um, yeah, of course people can have their own opinions. What do you think this whole thread is about? Are you saying that by vocally disagreeing with you, I’m telling you that you can’t have your own opinion? That’s absurd on its face.
By the by, while people can hold different opinions, they’re not entitled to their own facts. So, in fact, climate change is real, slavery was key to building U.S. capitalism, Starbucks serves coffee, Israel’s military has killed countless civilians in its occupation of the Palestinian territories, and while the sky is sometimes blue it tends to change colors during sunrise and sunset.
agrestic about 9 years ago
So why do you make it your business to make my business anywhere yours?
When you post to a forum I frequent, then I may post back if I disagree. Just as you post your disagreements with folks. Why is that so difficult to parse?
[To martens:] Just because someone makes a comment does not mean you have to respond in any way. If you do respond in a way that is as abrasive…"
Here’s where it’s instructive to share a few choice quotes from this thread. See if you can guess who posted them:• “Your comment is dripping with venom”• “There are too many Neville Chamberlains in America”• “Of course you do. A very liberal progressive university, too. Right?” [Because, you know, “liberal progressive” is a derogatory term to this person.]• “you and hiram need to get together and have a good yentafest” [not above gendered insults, apparently]• “your pontifications” [this is a word that said commenter is particularly enamored with]• “self-righteous turds”
And to think, all of this in a single strip’s thread! It’s actually kind of entertaining when they’re strung together this way.
* * *
today, I’m having a very cruddy day
In all seriousness, I’m sorry to hear it. I hope that your suffering eases and you’re up to full health quickly.
LOLisgood4U about 9 years ago
That’s what the Dems think anyway. They are busting their humps to get him defeated. Maybe if they were willing to spend all the money that they have directed to that purpose to properly arm the Kurds we would see more progress in that area of the world.
OmqR-IV.0 about 9 years ago
I had to look up pontificate since you use it so often.“express one’s opinions in a pompous and dogmatic way.”
Okay, I thought it had something to do with a pope but as that’s been clarified, would you mind explaining something else to me?… as I note you stated you were part of a debating team in college:When one constantly refers to one’s life experiences and hardships when they have no relevance to the subject, which fallacy is that; the ‘appeal to […] fallacy’?…wisdom? …sympathy fallacy? …pity fallacy?Perhaps the ’I’ve-had-a-hard-life-built-on-blood-sweat-and-tears-so-none-of-you-know-better’ fallacy?
Thanks in advance for your reply!
OmqR-IV.0 about 9 years ago
I’m learning so much from sueamarlucan’s vast experience and wisdom:
Hypocrisy: the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do : behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel
agrestic about 9 years ago
I have to say, agrestic, I am impressed by your patience and calm responses. Wish I had that much self-control.
Thanks, but I think your approach has been much gentler and even empathetic overall. I think there’s room for both.
agrestic about 9 years ago
the government full of liberal progressives decide that the children MUST be taught better than our elders can teach us
Well, there’s a twisting of history. “Liberalism” back then was actually an ideology that has been taken on these days by (particularly libertarian) conservatives: i.e., the notion of the stand-alone rational individual. You know, the sort of notion that Ayn Rand embraces. (Not to mention that they had a racist sense of the superiority of whiteness—it was white folks who would teach civilization to the “savage Indian”.) And “progressivism” back then also looked a whole lot different than it does today: Teddy Roosevelt, that famous Republican big-stick-carrier was a prominent example of that brand of progressivism. Likening your “liberal progressives” of today with what happened around residential schools is like trying to equate Jim Crow Democrats with a Democratic leader such as John Lewis (who had his skull cracked open in Selma fighting for Civil Rights)—they’re diametrically opposed.
pontificators that still think you are wrong about everything you have lived and experienced in your life
I haven’t heard anyone here deny anyone’s personal experiences, yet you repeatedly trot out that lie. (And yes, it’s reached the status of lie because you’ve been reminded over and over that it’s not the case but persist in repeating that basic line.)
I was in a blue recliner watching the towers fall on 9/11.
And others, who fundamentally disagree with you, were running from the smoke and rubble or watching from their rooftops. By your standards, this should make them more correct than you, no?
Being pontificated to and talked down to because my opinion is not just like theirs is insulting, yet they cannot see that they are insulting at all.
You keep equating being disagreed with with being insulted. They’re not the same thing. Calling people “self-righteous turds,” on the other hand…
when THEY decide they need to ‘correct’ me, I take it as a personal affront and attack
Ah, I see, so you do equate being disagreed with with being insulted. I suppose that explains a lot of your reaction.
A comment forum is not an invitation to a debate.
Um, actually, it very much is. Particularly a forum such as one that runs under a political cartoon.
Reading a comment on a comment forum does not mean you know enough about anyone to judge them
Please remind yourself of this when posting your own comments. (And what I and others here have done is to reply specifically to your comments. You have an online personality and online opinions and when you post them to a highly public forum, they’re fair game for responses. Just as comments from all the rest of us are.)
Even when I ignore agrestic and those such as hiram
You keep claiming to do this. When do you do this?
they have judged that I should not be making comments
Hmm…two posts, two lies. (Sorry. Have to call them for what they are.) Who has ever told you that you should not comment? Again, I and others have repeatedly tried to disabuse you of this notion, but you keep repeating it. But hey, if you can give a quote and a date for us to check, I’ll stand corrected.
It might surprise you that I have also agreed with agrestic on many subjects and even left a comment in agreement. Why would that comment not be shredded? …because I am agreeing with them and then they are happy. They only feel the need to shred your comment when they don’t like my comment.
Ah, now you cut to the heart of what it means to disagree and debate. Why would I “shred” a statement you make that I agree with? Just to be a jerk? We could turn this around: It might surprise you that I have also agreed with sueamarlucan on many subjects and even left a comment in agreement. Why would that comment not be called pontificating? …because I am agreeing with you and then you are happy.
agrestic about 9 years ago
What I found is a whole world of self-righteous, self-appointed mouthpieces
Are you self-diagnosing? Because the amount of (self-)righteous indignation that comes from your posts is really quite high.
Not only that, but they feel every right to step in and get involved when it is absolutely none of their business and without any data to make an informed and/or cogent decision in the matter.
Here’s a reminder: You are posting to a public forum which gets read by probably at least hundreds of people each day. You are making public pronouncements. And when you post public pronouncements that are controversial or just plain wrong, there’s a strong likelihood you’ll get a reply in that same public forum. This is not your own private playground
was again told that I had no business saying anything that did not jibe with what lalo said
Again, please point to evidence for this statement, with quotes and dates. It doesn’t exist, because no one has said such a thing to you, but still—if you’re going to make the claim, back it up.
They are much nicer than the animals I have run across in these “comment” forums that are supposed to be open to all comments
The one person on these comment forum who seems to be willing to toss actual persona insults around (“animals”, “turds”, “pontificators”) is the person I am currently replying to. And yes, these comment forums are open to all comments (within reason—let loose a string of the 7 Forbidden Words and your post will probably be taken down posthaste). But this means that these forums are also open comments in response to other comments. You seem to have no problem posting at other folks in a bad-tempered way, so why seek to shut others down?
But because I am not out there with my fist in the air complaining about how the whites have treated everyone so terrible.
Except that you were just complaining about the fact that you (I presume it was you) were yanked away from family by a white-led government. Or are you now saying you’re grateful for that? The cognitive dissonance runs strong in your statements.
You have taken the position that if we do not believe just like lalo does we should be silenced
Seriously, why do you continue with this line? It’s patently false (i.e., a fabrication, also known as a lie). Have you actually convinced yourself this is the case? It’s really quite baffling.
much of the liberal progressive message of today is more harmful to us ‘minorities’ than the message of those mean racist conservatives
We completely disagree on this front. The problem is, I tend to bring up solid evidence for my side of the argument and you, well…you generally don’t.
You know, hard work not handouts. Self-reliance. A good education that you work your way through.
Please tell that to the college-educated folks who are now finding it more difficult to get well-paying jobs. Or to the mothers and fathers who don’t get to see their kids because they’re working three jobs in order to be able to put food on those kids’ plates. Or to the hard-working people who have their well-paying union jobs cut only to be offered their same exact non-unionized jobs back for just a fraction of what they’d been paid before. Of course, if we were to say no handouts, we should also say that for wealthy heirs, right? Hey, Koch brothers, start from scratch! Hey, Waltons, you too!
I’m sick and I am sick and tired of people telling me I should be outraged by the history of my cultures.
You can be whatever you want. I frankly don’t care. But for you to imply that I and others should not be outraged at historic and continued oppression, well, I’d say that’s rather hypocritical of you.
That is what I hear you saying. Sit down, shut up.
You’d best get your ears checked.
We know better than you for you. No you don’t and you never will.
You don’t even know who this “we” is that you speak of. If you did, you might not be so free with such statements. Of course, we’ll continue to fundamentally disagree. And that will get expressed here. In this public forum. Where people often discuss their disagreements. Because that’s what a place like this is for.
(By the way, it does seem that you enjoy these continued arguments. Maybe they provide a sort of catharsis for you. Happy to be of service!)
agrestic about 9 years ago
You take it for granted that because of my ethnic background
What is with this line? Hiram makes no mention of your ethnic background, and neither has anyone else—you just keep offering it. What Hiram is saying is that you may have your opinions, but they very often don’t stand up to factual scrutiny. This has nothing whatsoever to do with ethnic backgrounds. In fact, we just have to take your word regarding everything you say about yourself in the first place.
Better than you have attempted to hold me back and failed
From my perspective, that’s not the goal here at all. It’s to counter your right-wing echo-chamber misinformation. It’s not about you personally. It’s about the ideas you express here. Though you’ve very much worked to make it about you.
Come back when you are ready to hear the life story of someone…
I’m being quite serious here when I say that there are plenty of oral historians out there who would very much like to hear and record that story. If you haven’t already, I’d suggest getting in touch with someone to do that. University, family member, etc.
lonecat about 9 years ago
I know I’m late to this party (gosh it sounds like fun) but I’d just like to make one little comment. Speaking from the left, I’m all in favor of hard work and education and service to the country. The idea that liberals and leftists don’t believe in hard work and education and service is just wrong. We also believe that people should have a decent opportunity to profit from their hard work and an opportunity to use their education. And when people need help, we think help should be there. But I resist very vehemently the idea that the left and liberals are in favor of laziness and handouts. It just ain’t so.
agrestic about 9 years ago
simply because most people think mixed-heritage people should be liberal progressives, leftists, whatever you want to call it
Well, then you and they drew the wrong lesson, because nobody here was objecting to you as a “mixed-heritage” person posting what you posted. I and others have always been, and continue to be, responding to opinions that we disagree with and straight-up misinformation.
But if all your family members were in on this and ideologically agree with you, it does explain your own tendency to take offense when folks disagree with you—you’re simply not used to it happening in the rest of your life.
agrestic about 9 years ago
It’s also interesting that a variety of members of the family decided to post in such a hostile manner to you, who were nothing less than empathetic in your posts to sue. I wonder what was behind that.
OmqR-IV.0 about 9 years ago
I gather I missed somehting…
agrestic about 9 years ago
since I discovered Machu Pichu
Just as long as you admit you were far from the first.