Tom Toles for November 13, 2014

My dog could’ve negotiated a better deal for the American people.

^Yeah, right, say the deniers. Interstinger and interestinger it is says Yoda.

So America eliminates thousands of jobs and China says it shoul be able to make some improvements in 16 years?Sounds great!Hope Barry at least got to keep that silly robe.

China does have an environmental problem but that isn’t why they agreed to reduce pollution. They are only agreeing to this because they think they can get the US to reduce emissions now by reducing production – and there will be China to pick up the manufacturing slack – At the expense of American jobs and the American economy.

No thank you President Obama.

16 years from now China will say – I know we committed to reducing our emissions but our economy isn’t where we want it so were going to have to delay that move for a few years. And they will do this over and over and over again.

@opednance – “Regulating emissions CREATES jobs.”

By that same statement I could argue that we eliminate Computers which arguably have eliminated more jobs then all other technological advances combined. We should also eliminate Diesel engines and go back to farming the fields with horses or, better yet, with just picks and shovels. Imagine all the people we could employ that way.

I’m not against regulating emissions to achieve a better environment for my self and my progeny. But I’m not on board with regulating emissions because Global Warming might make the US worse off. And anything we do will be futile as long as Brazil, Russia, China (for 16 years at least) Mexico, etc. continue to Grow their economies at our expense.

Here’s what I see: We haven’t had worse storms then before in fact we haven’t had a lot of Hurricanes over the last decade. Yes we had Katrina but it was a lucky strike and hit a densely populated area with poor infrastructure. We haven’t had more tornadoes or worse tornadoes. We have had droughts around the country but we have had those even before the doom and gloomers started talking about it.

It isn’t enough to say the earth is getting warmer and that MIGHT lead to worse conditions. We Americans have always been good at adapting to new circumstances and finding away to overcome them. As far as I’m concerned – I’ll pay less in heating bills and more in air conditioning.

Wow! Really, just wow! So happy you are an expert on everything! So please tell us gullible, ignorant people, what is it like to be so enlightened, to know with 100% certainty that you 100% correct on every issue? What’s it like to be a genius? We should all just bow down to your awesomeness!

Grow up, get over yourself!!

@opedness – The downside to reducing pollution is a reduction in economic growth. You look at all the Green Jobs we can create by Manufacturing Solar Panels, Wind Mills, Pollution reduction devices, etc. And I agree – Those do create jobs (though many in other countries that actually manufacture the products because they are labor intensive and cost less to make in China and Mexico then the do in the US) but they do create jobs.

But this push also costs jobs as you try to force heavier polluters out of the economy: Go ahead and tell a coal miner in KY or WV that his job isn’t important and that he will just have to uproot his family and find a green job. Tell those Welders, Construction workers, equipment manufacturers etc. That the Keystone Pipeline just looks too dirty so we won’t let it go through and they will just have to find jobs somewhere else.And tell the subscribers to power utilities that they will just have to pay more for their power because Green is Good. Some of them might agree with you but most will spit on you if they ever see you. Those $$$ come out of the economy – The dollars spent paying more for Electricity don’t go to the local grocer or the local farmers market.

And Cite your source on the US being a leader in emissions.

@Size of Pea – “but greed and utter disdain for the worker drove American jobs to China”.

I always get a chuckle when Progressives Scream Greed. As if trying to Maximize your Profits is somehow a bad thing. But let me ask you SoP – Corporations are designed to Maximize return on investment. That isn’t out of disdain for the worker but a real response to what investors want. As an investor I put my money in the company that will give me the highest return possible within my risk appetite. Are you suggesting I should invest in less profitable companies so that you don’t call me Greedy anymore? bah!!!

I doubt you go looking for the store with the highest prices or the Contractor who charges the most for a job. Like everyone else you try to maximize your utils by getting your goods and services for as low a price as possible. Corporations are driven more agressively to do that because the owners of capital will move on to the next company if they don’t maximize profits.

Trying to maximize profits in the short term seems to lead to poverty for employees and pollution for the whole world. Pollution shouldn’t be treated as an externality, and employes shouldn’t be disposable.

Only the heavy hand of government has slowed the browning of the planet, and the GOP wants to undo all that for the sake of a few big campaign donors.

Conservatives whine that we don’t have absolute proof that the world will end soon without taking steps. They’re paralyzed with fear at the thought that we might have clean air and water and soil FOR NOTHING.

@Kip – Let’s break your statement up into its constituent pieces: “Trying to maximize profits in the short term seems to lead to poverty for employees and pollution for the whole world”

Maximizing profits CAN lead to poverty for employees. I don’t dispute that at all. But we live in a Capitalistic society where Capital owners are allowed to make decisions about the use of their Capital that is in their benefit and it is presumed that society benefits. The investor who decides wisely will make a good return on his investment and the benefit to society is: He will pay more in taxes, He will buy goods and services that employ his neighbor, he will save money so he can take care of himself during a crisis rather then relying on the government for largess.

As for Pollution – We are talking about Greenhouse gases here which are not Pollution. If we just accept your statement on its face we again make China and India the biggest polluters with their billions of breathing citizens.

I am not against regulations that serve to keep our air, land and water clean as long as we have a reasonable expectation that the regulation will accomplish it’s task. I live in a rural area specifically because I cherish clean water, clean air and organic farming. But I am against regulations created because a group of scientists have screamed loudly about the doom and gloom that is just over the horizon and their message resonates with the anti-capitalist lot out there.

@Night-Gaunt – How did that work out with Solyndra and Abound Solar? There are, of course others. Bankrupt and now those people don’t have their original job or their green job.

The Government shouldn’t be in the business of picking winners and losers. They should keep the playing field level and then stay out of the way and let Capital find it’s way to the good companies…as it always does when the owners of the capital choose for themselves.

Obama and his apologists shrug and say – Well, we tried. But what they really did was wast $150 billion that could have been invested in proven industries which would have benefited all of us instead of just his green cronies.

This Obama thing is supposed to take effect here immediately, but not in Communist China until 2030. This is the treaty equivalent of “I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.”And, it has yet to be ratified by the U.S. Senate.AND, it is a handshake agreement, with a Communist country. Remember back in 1999, when the PRC made a handshake agreement with the U.K. not to interfere in Hong Kong’s democracy?

so USA will cut 28% from 2005 levels by 2020 and cina will start a 20% cut from 2030 level

China is communist trying to adopt capitalist principals, we are capitalists adopting communist principals. Not that red.

Did you read that article?? It was very one sided and biased.

And we all know to the left-wing NOTHING bad has happened since Obama took office.

Oh yes because if some liberal posted it, or some liberal leaning article is out there on the web, it must be true!

Why are you so obsessed with the word communist? My guess is you are unable to identify or describe others without using an epithet, That proves yoiu aren’t interested i na dialogue, just a flame war. You are obviously angry at those with whom you disagree and it gives you a chubbySignedStalinist troll

Let me summarize what the pseudo conservatives(aka reactionaries) are saying.Liberal,communist, hoax,Obama is a liar, blah,blah,blah….neener neener. Does that cover it?

Toles supports whatever the party line of the day is. Lets keep an eye on those Chinese, Tom and see how well they toe the line. If they don’t, I’m positive that you’ll draw one of your pithy toons that will put them in their place. Watch out Xi, Tom’s got his eye on you.

I guess the whataboutists will have to find something new to “what about…” about.