The Conservatives have a very clear vision on public education: “I don’t care what is happening in public schools, I send my kids to a private school, sorry about your kids, but schools are always a good place to cut when tax revenue is down!”
Please tell me, Mr. Warren, why all the Liberals in Washington, DC, and elsewhere, have their children in private schools because the public schools where they are in political charge are so miserable?
God forbid that their children be exposed to the “peeeple” and the useless, revisionist education being offered them.
You may wish to do a survey and find out how many Liberal Democrat millionaires there are in Congress in comparison to Conservative Republicans.
Also, note the number of Liberals who became rich sitting in Congress while most the Conservatives made theirs before they went into “public service.”
Liberals give a totally new definition to the term and it has noting to do with “serving” the public, only themselves.
BTW: I am not too impressed with the “Conservative” RINO’s either. Their skirts aren’t all that clean, either.
The one thing that really bothers me about the textbooks is that they got rid of Thomas Jefferson, my god he only wrote the Declaration of Independence.
Thomas Jefferson wrote about separation of church and state. We all know THAT to be a travesty, which is why he can’t consider him to be a major thinker of his era. The right to bear arms though… that was a good one. But religious persecution is okay as long as you are the one doing it.
those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it.
Since this nation became the beacon of freedom for the world, drawing immigrants seeking a better life from everywhere, during the time it honored the principles of the (read simply and literally) constitution, and began to look like a banana republic as those principles were deemed “inconvenient” or part of a “living document”, I guess we will all become citizens of a second rate nation - soon.
ronebofh is correct on both counts. Also, the Texas BOE replaced Jefferson with two prominent Christians who had nothing to do with either the American or French revolutions.
Mike nailed it, and it’s been going on for a long time, not just this most recent incident. Science texts have long been “suspect” in Texas- they try to re-write that too.
jefferson wrote that phrase on sep to assure that gov would not attack churches – the new text is bad because it says nice things about jefferson and washington and dropped chapter on hip hop
“jefferson wrote that phrase on sep to assure that gov would not attack churches”
Too bad churches are too busy attacking us. Still lovely that interracial marriage was banned citing Biblical verses until 40 years ago, as well. This is unfortunate. And here it was seeming like the ignorant would just die out. Now they’re perpetuating it. =\
Quotation from Jefferson’s letter to Benjamin Rush, Sep. 23, 1800:
“…Delusion on the clause of the constitution, which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro’ the U. S. As every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own… The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”
That’s right, he swore to stop the tyranny of the religious! Indeed, he did his own edit of the Bible removing all miracles. That guarantees he was no member of any modern Christian movement that claims otherwise.
So much for the Founding Fathers really wanting this to be a “Christian nation.”
Of all the ‘founding fathers’, Thomas Jefferson has been the favored punching bag of the left, so it it is rather amusing to see the very left now espouse him as if their own.
The fact that the US was created and stands on the foundation of Judeo-Christian principles (which form the basis of the Western civilization, as such) does not conflict with the doctrine of ‘separation of church and state’.
petergrt, I can just as truthfully say that the United States was created and stands upon the foundation of principles from Classical Antiquity (which form the basis of Western civilization, as such).
The United States was established as a practical experiment in Enlightenment principles, which fused Judeo-Christian morality with Greco-Roman philosophy. This resulted in what was then called Humanism (we would now refer to it as Christian Humanism, to distinguish it from its secular offspring), which “ressurrected” Christ’s ideals that the rights, dignity, and well-being of Man were of paramount importance in the operations of Church AND State: Religion was created for Man, not Man for Religion.
The signature religious expression of the Enlightenment was Deism, which held a generalized belief in a “God” or “Providence”, but nonetheless was skeptical (if not outright dismissive) of “revealed Truths” about “God’s” nature, workings, or will.
motive, my understanding is that Jefferson didn’t do his own edit of the whole Bible, just the Gospels. He thought Jesus was an extraordinary moral philosopher, but he didn’t believe any of the dogma about virgin birth or ressurrection. Jefferson’s book was titled “The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth”, and it begins in Bethlehem and ends on the cross.
fritzoid, quite right; I overstated the Jefferson Bible. And I meant to mention the idea of Christ as philosopher.
petergrt, nonsense. Jefferson has been beloved of the left. Remember JFK? “This is the finest assembly of brains [Nobel prizewinners] ever gathered in the White House with the possible exception of when Jefferson dined alone.” I criticize him for his poor behavior with his slaves, but he deserves that.
As for whether this is a “Judeo-Christian” state, that usage is a modern one and a lame attempt to claim we are not anti-Semitic. There were ministers amongst the Founders, but many of its finest thinkers were either mild deists at best or even actively opposed to any kind of organized religion – which is not surprising, considering the roots of many of them were set in the soil of the post-Reformation Enlightenment which denied intermediaries between a person and his deity, and, taken to its logical extreme, denied the universality of any particular dogma.
fritzoid is more correct than you.
kennethcwarren64 about 14 years ago
The Conservatives have a very clear vision on public education: “I don’t care what is happening in public schools, I send my kids to a private school, sorry about your kids, but schools are always a good place to cut when tax revenue is down!”
willikiii about 14 years ago
Please tell me, Mr. Warren, why all the Liberals in Washington, DC, and elsewhere, have their children in private schools because the public schools where they are in political charge are so miserable?
God forbid that their children be exposed to the “peeeple” and the useless, revisionist education being offered them.
You may wish to do a survey and find out how many Liberal Democrat millionaires there are in Congress in comparison to Conservative Republicans.
Also, note the number of Liberals who became rich sitting in Congress while most the Conservatives made theirs before they went into “public service.”
Liberals give a totally new definition to the term and it has noting to do with “serving” the public, only themselves.
BTW: I am not too impressed with the “Conservative” RINO’s either. Their skirts aren’t all that clean, either.
landshark67 about 14 years ago
The one thing that really bothers me about the textbooks is that they got rid of Thomas Jefferson, my god he only wrote the Declaration of Independence.
ronebofh about 14 years ago
landshark67: i think that the wingnuts finally realized that he wasn’t a Christian. Plus he fathered a black baby.
Jaedabee Premium Member about 14 years ago
Thomas Jefferson wrote about separation of church and state. We all know THAT to be a travesty, which is why he can’t consider him to be a major thinker of his era. The right to bear arms though… that was a good one. But religious persecution is okay as long as you are the one doing it.
jaywise about 14 years ago
those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it. Since this nation became the beacon of freedom for the world, drawing immigrants seeking a better life from everywhere, during the time it honored the principles of the (read simply and literally) constitution, and began to look like a banana republic as those principles were deemed “inconvenient” or part of a “living document”, I guess we will all become citizens of a second rate nation - soon.
Prof_Bleen about 14 years ago
ronebofh is correct on both counts. Also, the Texas BOE replaced Jefferson with two prominent Christians who had nothing to do with either the American or French revolutions.
Dtroutma about 14 years ago
Mike nailed it, and it’s been going on for a long time, not just this most recent incident. Science texts have long been “suspect” in Texas- they try to re-write that too.
treered about 14 years ago
are they trying to de-certify Texas high school diplomas so that Texans will be ineligible for military duty?
oneoldhat about 14 years ago
jefferson wrote that phrase on sep to assure that gov would not attack churches – the new text is bad because it says nice things about jefferson and washington and dropped chapter on hip hop
Jaedabee Premium Member about 14 years ago
“jefferson wrote that phrase on sep to assure that gov would not attack churches”
Too bad churches are too busy attacking us. Still lovely that interracial marriage was banned citing Biblical verses until 40 years ago, as well. This is unfortunate. And here it was seeming like the ignorant would just die out. Now they’re perpetuating it. =\kreole about 14 years ago
Texas left out Thomas Jefferson from the history books? Gotta check that one out…..
If so, I’m stunned….
comYics about 14 years ago
Im sure it can’t be much worse than lieing about abolishing slavery.
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
Quotation from Jefferson’s letter to Benjamin Rush, Sep. 23, 1800: “…Delusion on the clause of the constitution, which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro’ the U. S. As every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own… The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” That’s right, he swore to stop the tyranny of the religious! Indeed, he did his own edit of the Bible removing all miracles. That guarantees he was no member of any modern Christian movement that claims otherwise. So much for the Founding Fathers really wanting this to be a “Christian nation.”
TruthfulTheocracy about 14 years ago
Where are the passages about Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny?
petergrt about 14 years ago
Of all the ‘founding fathers’, Thomas Jefferson has been the favored punching bag of the left, so it it is rather amusing to see the very left now espouse him as if their own.
The fact that the US was created and stands on the foundation of Judeo-Christian principles (which form the basis of the Western civilization, as such) does not conflict with the doctrine of ‘separation of church and state’.
fritzoid Premium Member about 14 years ago
petergrt, I can just as truthfully say that the United States was created and stands upon the foundation of principles from Classical Antiquity (which form the basis of Western civilization, as such).
The United States was established as a practical experiment in Enlightenment principles, which fused Judeo-Christian morality with Greco-Roman philosophy. This resulted in what was then called Humanism (we would now refer to it as Christian Humanism, to distinguish it from its secular offspring), which “ressurrected” Christ’s ideals that the rights, dignity, and well-being of Man were of paramount importance in the operations of Church AND State: Religion was created for Man, not Man for Religion.
The signature religious expression of the Enlightenment was Deism, which held a generalized belief in a “God” or “Providence”, but nonetheless was skeptical (if not outright dismissive) of “revealed Truths” about “God’s” nature, workings, or will.
motive, my understanding is that Jefferson didn’t do his own edit of the whole Bible, just the Gospels. He thought Jesus was an extraordinary moral philosopher, but he didn’t believe any of the dogma about virgin birth or ressurrection. Jefferson’s book was titled “The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth”, and it begins in Bethlehem and ends on the cross.
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
fritzoid, quite right; I overstated the Jefferson Bible. And I meant to mention the idea of Christ as philosopher. petergrt, nonsense. Jefferson has been beloved of the left. Remember JFK? “This is the finest assembly of brains [Nobel prizewinners] ever gathered in the White House with the possible exception of when Jefferson dined alone.” I criticize him for his poor behavior with his slaves, but he deserves that. As for whether this is a “Judeo-Christian” state, that usage is a modern one and a lame attempt to claim we are not anti-Semitic. There were ministers amongst the Founders, but many of its finest thinkers were either mild deists at best or even actively opposed to any kind of organized religion – which is not surprising, considering the roots of many of them were set in the soil of the post-Reformation Enlightenment which denied intermediaries between a person and his deity, and, taken to its logical extreme, denied the universality of any particular dogma. fritzoid is more correct than you.
believecommonsense about 14 years ago
motive, fritz, good discussion