Learning other languages adds richness to understanding your own, broadens your ways of thinking about things (since there are concepts that are best – or only – expressed in other languages), and enables you to engage outside your own country. Americans are utterly crappy at language education – the typical professional European speaks at least three, and often speaks all of them better than some Americans can speak their own language.
I regret that I am not talented in languages, but I did learn Spanish and can still read and write and speak very simply in it. We are also lucky, in that English (especially American English) is the world business language, so everyone else learns it, and it is even required in South American business schools. Not only that, but many multinationals use English as their official tongue – including, for example, T-Mobile, which is a German company.
So, churchill, your attitude is narrow-minded and arrogant. People DO learn our language. What’s your problem with learning someone else’s?
^^^ motive – well said. I spend my working life in another language, or two, and it’s endless fun. My students love to learn the languages – it’s like an endless game, with no losers. They are especially interested in etymology, and they are also fascinated in the difficulties of translating the nuances of meaning from one language into another. And Tuesday in Greek class we compared the -mi verbs in ancient Greek to the corresponding verbs in Sanskrit. I asked them to imagine the excitement of the first scholars who compared these two languages and realized that they had to be closely related. It must have been like discovering a new continent. In addition, my students tell me that it’s only in Greek or Latin class that they learn English grammar.
I helped a Latin teacher in the late 90s when he was saddled with with doubled-up classes–Latin I-III in one case. He spent about 20% of the class time on basic English grammar.
In answer to the question posed by the cartoon, I think Americans would not have a problem if the situation was reversed - i.e. a country in which a language other than English predominated deciding that certain situations justified only communicating in the predominate native language.
Hardly a narrow-minded position to take.
Should Mexico require all novellas have English subtitles?
“They asked how we would feel if the situation was reversed?”
Is the official translation. With that said learning languages is fun! If not for practical use such as business, use it to annoy the people around you.
DrCanuck said, “Would someone please translate for us Northerners?”
Bruce4671 said, “I think it says to the effect, What if the situation was reversed?”
d_legendary1 said, “Bruce was close! “They asked how we would feel if the situation was reversed?”
My translation is a little different (of course the syntax of a Spanish sentence is much different than English). But I take it to say, “I wonder how they would like it if the situation was reversed.’
Variations aside, all of this speaks to the confusion, frustration, and exclusion that those who are not all that proficient in English might feel when being forced to take a driver’s license test in our language. Hell, there are people who are fluent in English who can’t pass the test, yet we’re asking someone to both understand our traffic laws and a new language?
As for those of you who want to make anything the official anything of this country, you might want to think again. When Hispanics outnumber Anglos in this country (which will happen one day) you might see ‘Spanish Only’ laws being proposed. And when Christians are a the minority to a Muslim majority (which will happen), you may be the ones clamoring for the separation of church and state.
Comsymp, having lived abroad, I appreciate the confusion and frustration - but not exclusion. After all, I was a foreigner and it would be an imposition on my host country to insist on translations!
Most foreign driver’s licenses are recognized in the US. People taking up residence in the US for over a year are supposed to get their US licenses. The most important – and rewarding - thing a person can do when residing in another country is to learn the language as well as they can. The variations in our translations aside, we all got the gist of what was being asked.
One issue I do not go along with is that there is a great safety issue involved if people who can’t read English well are driving. Although we lag behind other countries, many of our signs – and most of the ones that convey safety information – are based on an international standard and use pictures instead of words (stop and yield have words, but their shape and color are internationally recognized).
Actually, it was never likely to become German; that was a myth.
http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.asp
Don’t get me wrong, I love English, but I was brought up in it. I think there is room for multilingualism without sacrificing a common culture or common languages! Learning other languages does not sacrifice your own.
Human, thanks for demonstrating the silliness of your argument.
Just to help you “some special acceptance ” should be “some special exemption”. “ATM machines of DMV” should probably be “ATM machines or DMV”. “German decent living” would be “German descent living”.
And to drive the final nail in the coffin of this stupidity, what is “American English”. Is it that dialect spoken in Brooklyn? Or perhaps you prefer ‘Valley Girl’ (not to insult the residents of the San Fernando Valley). How about Alabama where ‘fire’ is pronounced ‘far’? Or New Orleans, where the natives speak as if they have their mouth full.
Billions of dollars invested and spent on education, yet a larger number of people are functionally illeterate in society. Editor E. D. White has various compilations of “What a child should know in grades” kindergarden through grade 6. Fabulous books. I am not dictating curiculum, but there has to be a continuity-something that is shared from state to state. It has grade suggested minimums that every child in 2nd grade should be able to understand a given story, multiplication tables, history, philosophy, etc.
If Ebonics is accepted in California, or text speak is accepted in for an essay in English in New Jersey, we are sliding down a slippery slope leaving citizens unemployable.
Racial tantrums? Two diplomats were kidnapped (bad), mailboxes were blown up (bad too), we had a few riots smaller than most of your racial riots. A province tried to secede, but the question was asked -twice- democratically and the people said “non” both times. And no war broke out.
@Bruce The reason we learn the bad words first is because its fun, especially when you use those words on someone who only speaks English. I especially enjoy it when that person says “we’re in America speak English” cause I get to tell them, “When are you gonna start?”
I had classes in English, Latin, and German in school. I picked up understanding a smattering of Japanese, Vietnamese, and Spanish through “social contacts”. The folks most adamant about “English ONLY”- seem least competent at using it. Being bi- or multi-lingual teaches understanding of cultures as well as “language”, and brings people closer together.
While I do believe the U.S. should go ahead and admit English IS “our” language- including the fact that naturalized citizens must pass a basic test to prove competence-we should teach our kids other languages, to improve their English skills.
If one of our “REAL Americans” had found the Rosetta Stone, it would have been smashed into rubble.
BTW- the actress Eva Longoria spoke to being asked if she was “second generation” American. It turned out her SPANISH ancestor came to the Americas at age eleven, 17 YEARS BEFORE the English settlers arrived. Spanish was spoken across most of both continents in the Americas centuries before English was even a thought- maybe folks should remember that?
¿How would we feel if the situation were reversed? The English speakers of Texas & California fought wars of independence from Mexico, largely because you had to be a Spanish speaking Roman Catholic to gain full rights.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
We have a Constitutional right to say whatever, in whatever language. Legislated translations come under the equal protection clause of the 14th Ammendment. For broadest understanding, air traffic controllers use English, world wide.
^ I like the initial upside down question marks in Spanish. We should add them to English. Thanks, Chukliti for giving an example. Shift+Option+? will do it. ¿What do you think?
¿Would they be helpful?
In fact, we should have lots more punctuation marks. A friend of mine in high school invented one that combined a question mark and an exclamation mark – he called in an Interobang. Isn’t that a neat idea?!
The literary scholar I. A. Richards invented a whole slew of neat punctuation marks – he uses them in a book titled Speculative Instruments, in case anyone is interested.
lol @ DrcC: ”Because then you’d all have to learn it.”
If it weren’t for privacy issues, I would love to post a link to a few videos of mine showing my 2 yr old (and 2 months) counting to ten in German, English & Portuguese. She can also point out colours when asked in all 3. Body parts, basic shapes,fruit, veg, tens of animals in all 3 languages. Despite being spoken to in German & Portuguese, she replies mostly in English since she hears my wife & I chat to each other in English, our surrounds are in English and TV programming is English. But we do read to her from books in all 3 languages.
We think her speech is a little delayed due to the “confusion” of listening to and comprehending 3 languages but we have been assured that in a year or so’s time, her speech should be more confident.
It’s doable, my kid is not special, not gifted, quite normal; just start them young. They’ll quickly pick it up.
I think my command of the English language is better from knowing Portuguese, a Latin language. My Austrian wife’s knowledge of English is even better than mine and she is learning Portuguese quickly because of her knowledge of Latin.
I often tell my British colleagues that they shot themselves in the foot by not learning French as it actually helps them speak English!
We often criticise migrants (and I’m guilty of doing so myself despite being an emigrant) of not trying to learn the host country’s language. However, often a migrant doesn’t have the “tools” in their own language .i.e education.
It is very easy for us here on this forum to wonder why they don’t learn the language, we’re mostly fairly well educated (not talking about tertiary degrees or diplomas). We are perhaps better equiped to learn another language if we wanted to. Migrants often cannot because sometimes they cannot afford to take time off to attend even free language courses but likely than not, they simply don’t know how. If they have not received adequate education in their own language, it is very difficult for them to acquire more education in another.
I’ve observed Portuguese communities in a few countries and I sometimes get a little angry that after many years there are some still dependent on translators. I don’t encourage assimilation but I do encourage integration. I also think that knowledge of the local language empowers one to obtain better employment. I help out a few of my countryfolk with minor matters and slowly I’ve learnt to be a little more tolerant of their reasons for their inability to learn the language. It is more than likely they simply lack the skills to do so.
Btw, I have also observed British expat communities in Spain & Portugal and the American community in Vienna. Except for specific cases, I haven’t been very impressed with their knowledge of the local languages despite being very well educated. The trouble is, of course, everyone else speaks English so they don’t have to learn another language. Perhaps I can sympathise, while I lived in the Netherlands, whenever I tried to speak in Dutch, I would get a reply in perfect English.sigh
omQ R ^ Thanks for your thoughtful posts on this issue. My understanding is that children who are brought up bilingual or multilingual have an advantage later on. Most of the world is bilingual, more or less. The unilingualism which characterizes much of the English speaking world is something of an oddity.
Toronto, where I live, is full of New Canadians, as we say, and we seem to get along pretty well. Many of my students speak a language other than English at home, and I try to make them feel proud of their home languages. Often they don’t read well in their home language, and I try to encourage them to learn, so they can develop the skills they have and take full advantage of them.
4uk4ata about 14 years ago
Frau, ich habe keine Idee was Sie sagen.
mnsmkd about 14 years ago
?Que?
davesmithsit about 14 years ago
Or evacuate.
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
Learning other languages adds richness to understanding your own, broadens your ways of thinking about things (since there are concepts that are best – or only – expressed in other languages), and enables you to engage outside your own country. Americans are utterly crappy at language education – the typical professional European speaks at least three, and often speaks all of them better than some Americans can speak their own language. I regret that I am not talented in languages, but I did learn Spanish and can still read and write and speak very simply in it. We are also lucky, in that English (especially American English) is the world business language, so everyone else learns it, and it is even required in South American business schools. Not only that, but many multinationals use English as their official tongue – including, for example, T-Mobile, which is a German company. So, churchill, your attitude is narrow-minded and arrogant. People DO learn our language. What’s your problem with learning someone else’s?
lonecat about 14 years ago
^^^ motive – well said. I spend my working life in another language, or two, and it’s endless fun. My students love to learn the languages – it’s like an endless game, with no losers. They are especially interested in etymology, and they are also fascinated in the difficulties of translating the nuances of meaning from one language into another. And Tuesday in Greek class we compared the -mi verbs in ancient Greek to the corresponding verbs in Sanskrit. I asked them to imagine the excitement of the first scholars who compared these two languages and realized that they had to be closely related. It must have been like discovering a new continent. In addition, my students tell me that it’s only in Greek or Latin class that they learn English grammar.
Thomas R. Williams about 14 years ago
I helped a Latin teacher in the late 90s when he was saddled with with doubled-up classes–Latin I-III in one case. He spent about 20% of the class time on basic English grammar.
Chrisnp about 14 years ago
In answer to the question posed by the cartoon, I think Americans would not have a problem if the situation was reversed - i.e. a country in which a language other than English predominated deciding that certain situations justified only communicating in the predominate native language.
Hardly a narrow-minded position to take.
Should Mexico require all novellas have English subtitles?
donbeco about 14 years ago
Andy, are you saying that Texan’s speak another language?
They’ve certainly thrown tantrums and threatened secession. Maybe they can rejoin Mexico!
d_legendary1 about 14 years ago
Bruce was close!
“They asked how we would feel if the situation was reversed?”
Is the official translation. With that said learning languages is fun! If not for practical use such as business, use it to annoy the people around you.
“Ese ANandy es un pendejo.”
comsymp about 14 years ago
DrCanuck said, “Would someone please translate for us Northerners?”
Bruce4671 said, “I think it says to the effect, What if the situation was reversed?”
d_legendary1 said, “Bruce was close! “They asked how we would feel if the situation was reversed?”
My translation is a little different (of course the syntax of a Spanish sentence is much different than English). But I take it to say, “I wonder how they would like it if the situation was reversed.’
Variations aside, all of this speaks to the confusion, frustration, and exclusion that those who are not all that proficient in English might feel when being forced to take a driver’s license test in our language. Hell, there are people who are fluent in English who can’t pass the test, yet we’re asking someone to both understand our traffic laws and a new language?
As for those of you who want to make anything the official anything of this country, you might want to think again. When Hispanics outnumber Anglos in this country (which will happen one day) you might see ‘Spanish Only’ laws being proposed. And when Christians are a the minority to a Muslim majority (which will happen), you may be the ones clamoring for the separation of church and state.
Chrisnp about 14 years ago
Comsymp, having lived abroad, I appreciate the confusion and frustration - but not exclusion. After all, I was a foreigner and it would be an imposition on my host country to insist on translations!
Most foreign driver’s licenses are recognized in the US. People taking up residence in the US for over a year are supposed to get their US licenses. The most important – and rewarding - thing a person can do when residing in another country is to learn the language as well as they can. The variations in our translations aside, we all got the gist of what was being asked.
One issue I do not go along with is that there is a great safety issue involved if people who can’t read English well are driving. Although we lag behind other countries, many of our signs – and most of the ones that convey safety information – are based on an international standard and use pictures instead of words (stop and yield have words, but their shape and color are internationally recognized).
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
Actually, it was never likely to become German; that was a myth. http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.asp Don’t get me wrong, I love English, but I was brought up in it. I think there is room for multilingualism without sacrificing a common culture or common languages! Learning other languages does not sacrifice your own.
PlainBill about 14 years ago
Human, thanks for demonstrating the silliness of your argument.
Just to help you “some special acceptance ” should be “some special exemption”. “ATM machines of DMV” should probably be “ATM machines or DMV”. “German decent living” would be “German descent living”.
And to drive the final nail in the coffin of this stupidity, what is “American English”. Is it that dialect spoken in Brooklyn? Or perhaps you prefer ‘Valley Girl’ (not to insult the residents of the San Fernando Valley). How about Alabama where ‘fire’ is pronounced ‘far’? Or New Orleans, where the natives speak as if they have their mouth full.
Imajs Premium Member about 14 years ago
Billions of dollars invested and spent on education, yet a larger number of people are functionally illeterate in society. Editor E. D. White has various compilations of “What a child should know in grades” kindergarden through grade 6. Fabulous books. I am not dictating curiculum, but there has to be a continuity-something that is shared from state to state. It has grade suggested minimums that every child in 2nd grade should be able to understand a given story, multiplication tables, history, philosophy, etc.
If Ebonics is accepted in California, or text speak is accepted in for an essay in English in New Jersey, we are sliding down a slippery slope leaving citizens unemployable.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member about 14 years ago
Racial tantrums? Two diplomats were kidnapped (bad), mailboxes were blown up (bad too), we had a few riots smaller than most of your racial riots. A province tried to secede, but the question was asked -twice- democratically and the people said “non” both times. And no war broke out.
d_legendary1 about 14 years ago
@Bruce The reason we learn the bad words first is because its fun, especially when you use those words on someone who only speaks English. I especially enjoy it when that person says “we’re in America speak English” cause I get to tell them, “When are you gonna start?”
Dtroutma about 14 years ago
I had classes in English, Latin, and German in school. I picked up understanding a smattering of Japanese, Vietnamese, and Spanish through “social contacts”. The folks most adamant about “English ONLY”- seem least competent at using it. Being bi- or multi-lingual teaches understanding of cultures as well as “language”, and brings people closer together.
While I do believe the U.S. should go ahead and admit English IS “our” language- including the fact that naturalized citizens must pass a basic test to prove competence-we should teach our kids other languages, to improve their English skills.
If one of our “REAL Americans” had found the Rosetta Stone, it would have been smashed into rubble.
BTW- the actress Eva Longoria spoke to being asked if she was “second generation” American. It turned out her SPANISH ancestor came to the Americas at age eleven, 17 YEARS BEFORE the English settlers arrived. Spanish was spoken across most of both continents in the Americas centuries before English was even a thought- maybe folks should remember that?
ChukLitl Premium Member about 14 years ago
¿How would we feel if the situation were reversed? The English speakers of Texas & California fought wars of independence from Mexico, largely because you had to be a Spanish speaking Roman Catholic to gain full rights.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
We have a Constitutional right to say whatever, in whatever language. Legislated translations come under the equal protection clause of the 14th Ammendment. For broadest understanding, air traffic controllers use English, world wide.
lonecat about 14 years ago
^ I like the initial upside down question marks in Spanish. We should add them to English. Thanks, Chukliti for giving an example. Shift+Option+? will do it. ¿What do you think? ¿Would they be helpful?
In fact, we should have lots more punctuation marks. A friend of mine in high school invented one that combined a question mark and an exclamation mark – he called in an Interobang. Isn’t that a neat idea?!
The literary scholar I. A. Richards invented a whole slew of neat punctuation marks – he uses them in a book titled Speculative Instruments, in case anyone is interested.
OmqR-IV.0 about 14 years ago
lol @ DrcC: ”Because then you’d all have to learn it.” If it weren’t for privacy issues, I would love to post a link to a few videos of mine showing my 2 yr old (and 2 months) counting to ten in German, English & Portuguese. She can also point out colours when asked in all 3. Body parts, basic shapes,fruit, veg, tens of animals in all 3 languages. Despite being spoken to in German & Portuguese, she replies mostly in English since she hears my wife & I chat to each other in English, our surrounds are in English and TV programming is English. But we do read to her from books in all 3 languages. We think her speech is a little delayed due to the “confusion” of listening to and comprehending 3 languages but we have been assured that in a year or so’s time, her speech should be more confident. It’s doable, my kid is not special, not gifted, quite normal; just start them young. They’ll quickly pick it up.
I think my command of the English language is better from knowing Portuguese, a Latin language. My Austrian wife’s knowledge of English is even better than mine and she is learning Portuguese quickly because of her knowledge of Latin.
I often tell my British colleagues that they shot themselves in the foot by not learning French as it actually helps them speak English!
OmqR-IV.0 about 14 years ago
We often criticise migrants (and I’m guilty of doing so myself despite being an emigrant) of not trying to learn the host country’s language. However, often a migrant doesn’t have the “tools” in their own language .i.e education. It is very easy for us here on this forum to wonder why they don’t learn the language, we’re mostly fairly well educated (not talking about tertiary degrees or diplomas). We are perhaps better equiped to learn another language if we wanted to. Migrants often cannot because sometimes they cannot afford to take time off to attend even free language courses but likely than not, they simply don’t know how. If they have not received adequate education in their own language, it is very difficult for them to acquire more education in another. I’ve observed Portuguese communities in a few countries and I sometimes get a little angry that after many years there are some still dependent on translators. I don’t encourage assimilation but I do encourage integration. I also think that knowledge of the local language empowers one to obtain better employment. I help out a few of my countryfolk with minor matters and slowly I’ve learnt to be a little more tolerant of their reasons for their inability to learn the language. It is more than likely they simply lack the skills to do so.
Btw, I have also observed British expat communities in Spain & Portugal and the American community in Vienna. Except for specific cases, I haven’t been very impressed with their knowledge of the local languages despite being very well educated. The trouble is, of course, everyone else speaks English so they don’t have to learn another language. Perhaps I can sympathise, while I lived in the Netherlands, whenever I tried to speak in Dutch, I would get a reply in perfect English.sigh
lonecat about 14 years ago
omQ R ^ Thanks for your thoughtful posts on this issue. My understanding is that children who are brought up bilingual or multilingual have an advantage later on. Most of the world is bilingual, more or less. The unilingualism which characterizes much of the English speaking world is something of an oddity.
Toronto, where I live, is full of New Canadians, as we say, and we seem to get along pretty well. Many of my students speak a language other than English at home, and I try to make them feel proud of their home languages. Often they don’t read well in their home language, and I try to encourage them to learn, so they can develop the skills they have and take full advantage of them.