Afghanistan and Iraq were naked aggression. Crimea has the Russians largest Naval base, and access to the Med, secured with treaty, they also have ethnics there who support them. NOT the same as our invasions, even if Putin is a creepy dude, but not a creepy as Cheney.
Reminds me of Germany seizing the Sudetenland, and Danzig, ostensibly to reunite ethnic Germans with their fatherland. The Russians could march into the Crimea with half the people there welcoming them. None of which means that this isn’t simple aggression, with the Russians pulling the strings behind the scenes, at least to some extent. One question remains: is Putin willing to tolerate an independent Ukraine at all? Has he “no more territorial demands to make in Europe” to quote another.
“No, don’t be reminded. That is an incorrect analogy since Putin is no Hitler or Stalin. You start thinking that way you get either “appeasement” or " world war." Those aren’t the choices here."Why not? What exactly can the Ukraine do in the present situation other than meet Putin’s demands, or fight? And Putin demands a government in Kiev that is subordinate to Moscow. Even a naked conquest of the Ukraine by the Russians would not, at the moment, precipitate a world war, that is true. But it is also true that the taking of the Sudetenland and even the conquest of Czechoslovakia did not precipitate a world war either. If Germany had not invaded Poland, and settled for Czechoslovakia (even temporarily), how might the history of the 20th century look different?So the question is, where will Putin stop? And what ought we to do about it? I AM reminded of 1938-1939; it is not an analogy, and I don’t claim to know what we ought to do about the situation, if anything. The only thing I am sure of, is that this is NOT going to mean happy days for Ukrainians who want true independence from Russia, and closer ties with the west. For them, these are dark days.
“Most here show a lack of knowledge of true American history.”
And what exactly does American history have to do with it? I didn’t think we were talking about American history. But you’re quite right, espousing or carrying out a specific strategy when one doesn’t know the complexity of a situation would be like … well rather like our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Although I think Americans will probably do better understanding the Russian-Ukrainian situation than understanding the Sunni-Shiite situation. Though I could be wrong about that.
ConserveGov about 10 years ago
Bare Attack!
Dtroutma about 10 years ago
Afghanistan and Iraq were naked aggression. Crimea has the Russians largest Naval base, and access to the Med, secured with treaty, they also have ethnics there who support them. NOT the same as our invasions, even if Putin is a creepy dude, but not a creepy as Cheney.
Doughfoot about 10 years ago
Reminds me of Germany seizing the Sudetenland, and Danzig, ostensibly to reunite ethnic Germans with their fatherland. The Russians could march into the Crimea with half the people there welcoming them. None of which means that this isn’t simple aggression, with the Russians pulling the strings behind the scenes, at least to some extent. One question remains: is Putin willing to tolerate an independent Ukraine at all? Has he “no more territorial demands to make in Europe” to quote another.
Bilword about 10 years ago
you want the real nude aggression you have to look at us foreign policy!
magicwalnut Premium Member about 10 years ago
All the more astonishing that Arizona and California can exist next door to each other and still be, nominally at least, part of the same country.
hippogriff about 10 years ago
dtroutma: Russia has access to the Black Sea. To get to the Mediterranean, they would have to pass through the territorial waters of Turkey.
Godfreydaniel about 10 years ago
Too bad retroactive Olympic boycotts don’t tend to be effective…….
echoraven about 10 years ago
That would explain much. Makes me think of the movie “American Beauty”.
Doughfoot about 10 years ago
“No, don’t be reminded. That is an incorrect analogy since Putin is no Hitler or Stalin. You start thinking that way you get either “appeasement” or " world war." Those aren’t the choices here."Why not? What exactly can the Ukraine do in the present situation other than meet Putin’s demands, or fight? And Putin demands a government in Kiev that is subordinate to Moscow. Even a naked conquest of the Ukraine by the Russians would not, at the moment, precipitate a world war, that is true. But it is also true that the taking of the Sudetenland and even the conquest of Czechoslovakia did not precipitate a world war either. If Germany had not invaded Poland, and settled for Czechoslovakia (even temporarily), how might the history of the 20th century look different?So the question is, where will Putin stop? And what ought we to do about it? I AM reminded of 1938-1939; it is not an analogy, and I don’t claim to know what we ought to do about the situation, if anything. The only thing I am sure of, is that this is NOT going to mean happy days for Ukrainians who want true independence from Russia, and closer ties with the west. For them, these are dark days.
Doughfoot about 10 years ago
“Most here show a lack of knowledge of true American history.”
And what exactly does American history have to do with it? I didn’t think we were talking about American history. But you’re quite right, espousing or carrying out a specific strategy when one doesn’t know the complexity of a situation would be like … well rather like our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Although I think Americans will probably do better understanding the Russian-Ukrainian situation than understanding the Sunni-Shiite situation. Though I could be wrong about that.