Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for October 19, 2011

I knew it.

Fact: class warfare and getting mad at the rich will gain you nothing. And no, I am not rich; far from it. I’m just content with what I have and have no desire to steal what someone else has, no matter how wealthy they are.

I hope this doesn’t lead to Alex and Leo breaking up.

it ain’t class warfare to build a society in which the benefits of the environment, the labor of all, and the infrastructure are distributed slightly more equitably.

GT made the Tea Party people look like they needed a gym membership and a diet. He made OWS look like they need to go to a barber and the make-up counter at Macy’s.

This strip merely shows us Alex’s impulsiveness. Call it her instinct for justice or her knee-jerk liberalism; either way, Leo is cautious for her sake, not because he disapproves of OWS. (We’ve already seen him quit a job on moral grounds.)GBT can use Leo’s meeting with Joanie to clarify for us (and for Alex) what OWS really means.

Oh damn… This isn’t going to be good.

Fact: the top 1% in this country pay 40% of the federal income tax. That’s already substantially more than the 24% of the income that they’re earning. How much more of the tax burden should they be shouldering before they’re paying their fair share?

“Class warfare” is the term adopted by defenders of the status quo, both Democrat and Republican. Independents and Teapartiers avoid the term because they recognize only one class, The People, whose common enemy is Big or Wasteful Government.All four of these groups (DIRT) try to weld together two incompatible American principles: political equality, anchored in our Constitution, and inequality of wealth (the basic American belief that earning money brings you special distinction).The very concept of an aristocratic “class” is downright un-American. That’s why it’s absurd to see the 400 Oligarchs of panel 2 regard themselves as our leaders (and lobby Congress to protect their status).Not too long ago, our leaders demonstrated their nobility by their readiness to make sacrifices for the nation. Nowadays, a plutocrat making such a gesture is dismissed as a patsy (look at the Republican Congress jeering at Buffett).

The issue with Buffet isn’t his willingness to make a sacrifice; it’s his willingness to force others to. That’s why he’s been jeered.

The top 1% paid 39.5 % in Federal income tax in 2007 but when you combine payroll and excise taxes, the top 1% paid 28.1 % in Federal taxes. The ceiling for Social Security taxes is $106,800 in 2011. It can be increased to $150,000 and Social Security can be stabilized.

Nice try; but this has nothing to do with envy on my part, and I’ll thank you to keep this to facts rather than personal attacks or other emotional arguments.

If Warren Buffet wants to be noble, he can give money directly to the IRS above and beyond what they ask for in taxes. Or he can give it to charity, as other people often do. Or he can invest it in a venture that he approves of. Or he can sit on it. It’s money that he earned, and he should be free to spend or save it however he wishes. As long as he’s dealing with his own money, I know of no one who objects to what he’s saying. It’s only when he expands that to dealing with other peoples’ money that objections start to emerge.

Last word is yours: I’m signing off for the night.

@dataweaver“Fact: the top 1% in this country pay 40% of the federal income tax.”

This is entirely reasonable, given that the top 1% earn more than the bottom 40% combined. In fact, one could argue that, under those conditions, the top 1% are not paying enough.

The 99% only seem to have their own greed in answer for the greed of the 1%. I’d love to see their level of indignation focused on a problem such as human trafficking, but then we might have to look at our own hearts and ask how all 100% of us, in thought or deed, tend to make objects out of other people for our own use or gratification. The enemy is within.

For all you fine intelligent thinkers on both sides of the “aisle” who are worried about my health:

 I had to get up after 3 hours sleep to attend to my med procedures. I’m “sneaking” a few minutes for this especially important thread.  Night.

I heart this couple.

Lets switch gears. The 40% argument is just running interference. Alex maybe impulsive, but OWS is not. They know one day they’ll have the car keys

Fact. The West is Red.

I can’t wait for when Alex finds out she is in the 1%.

We all work to better ourselves and posterity for the future. It is not anger toward the rich that offends me, it is the idea that I nor my children should endeavor to become wealthy. While I do believe a better Tax structure should be put in place so the wealth pay a fair share, I also have issue that 32% pay no tax at all. Aside from poverty level families, everyone should help tow the line.

First, I just have to ask, Why have a ceiling on Social Security Tax anyway?

Next, this discussion seems to have forgotten that much of the monetary compensation of the upper couple of percent is not taxed at the same rate as Payroll Taxes. Investment Income is taxed at a lower rate, as well as other loopholes.(Tax breaks on Second Residences? Give me a break…)

Hey, if James Carville and Mary Matalin can get along, Leo and Alex are a lock.

Fact: For a household income of $50,000, taxes/FICA paid was an average of $6,883.

Fact: For General Electric Company, profits (not income, profits) for 2010: $14.1 Billion, taxes paid: $0.00.

As Al Pacino’s character said in “…And Justice For All”, “Something is very wrong here!!!”

“Fact: To become an “Illegal Immigrant,” a person must first have been recognized by the USG as a LEGAL immigrant!”  No offense, but this appears to be a nonsense sentence. It’s like sneaking into the Superbowl without paying and then arguing to the Superbowl Security who is dragging out in ‘cuffs under arrest: “To become an ’Illegal seat-holder’, a person must first have been recognized by Superbowl management as a LEGAL seat-holder!" Lewis Carroll’s Jabberwock would be sooo pleased.

DylanThomas: Try a little research. The top 1% do indeed pay 40% of all income taxes. Look it up on the gov’s own website. Here is a chart that even you should be able to read.

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/top10-percent-income-earners

BTW, just because someone is rich doesn’t mean they stole it. So quit feeling all entitled just because you are greedy and covetous.

How about also noting they pay 40% of the taxes?

Class warfare is the majority of today’s Republicans calling for massive tax cuts for the wealthy while calling for tax increases for the poor and middle class.

I think half the problems would disapear if there were term limits with 1 term on president and vice-president could not run for 4 years after leaving office leaving office. Then they could concentrate on the country instead of re-election. A president should be above politics. And the lady governor who thinks we are to stupid to vote and we should stop having elections. Then they could call us the cattle.

Dataweaver—they do not have 24% of the income, they have 24% of the total wealth. Total wealth is a far, far different thing from income. And income itself fits in several categories. The rich in this country have—in less than one generation—amassed wealth that mean their descendants will be owning your and mine for the next century. NOBODY works that hard or that smart. What on earth is fair and equitable about it?

please God – let them agree to disagree!

Behind every great fortune there is a crime. Honore de Balzac

Doesn’t Alex have classes? When I was in school I didn’t have time to occupy much more than desks, chairs in the study lounge and computer labs and the occasional seat at sorority meetings. And I did NOT even attend a high-pressure school like Alex’s.

I liked the tax rates under Nixon. The top rate was only 85%.

“Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.” You’ve taken that statement out of context. There is no text without context. Thus the rest of your argument is flawed.

“I believe the top 1% are actually laughing at the “little people” on the street below.” Unfortunately, this is literally true. I read an article by a reporter who actually toured the hallways and offices of the canyon walls of the tall buildings on Wall Street. She reported that they actually were looking out of their windows on the OWS folks below, talking about them (the poor suckers), and laughing at them.

Obviously these 1%ers don’t believe the ideals and goals of the 99%ers will ever be realized, what with their “let ’em eat cake” attitudes and all.

“I don’t make over $100K a year, not even close. But I was brought up to work hard and pay your dues. That’s reward that is EARNED. That’s what these Occupy Wall Street dunces don’t understand.”

Unfortunately, they understand it all too well: they see Paris Hilton on TV.

Aren’t Alex’s parents, rich?

Maybe Leo’s daddy is wealthy. I don’t know, but this issue is black and white (not racially).

By the way, it was Bush W who affirmed—-right after 9/11—- the mixed-up idea that patriotism consists not in self-sacrifice but in getting and spending money.Small wonder that these patriots now want to bring back the fiscal policies of the previous administration.

I don’t think hate is a relevant issue here. Neither is class warfare. What is relevant is inequalities of opportunity, greed, waste, corruption, etc.

There are two big problems: the terrible disparity between the richest 1% and the poorest 1% AND the shrinking of the middle class. People in the middle class are struggling not to be foreclosed and homeless. The economy hinges on the well-being of the middle class (who do most of the spending); we won’t see a recovery until the middle class stops hurting.

Most of what the top tier did to get there wasn’t illegal, just corrupt, because they or their predecessors bought the politicians who wrote the laws, & wrote the laws making them able to legally purchase politicians. Socialism doesn’t work because some power hungry jackass always finds his way to the top so he can redistribute a disproportionate share of wealth to himself, much like capitalism. There is nothing anyone can do to actually earn billions, especially not by being born to rich parents. I want a 100% tax on everything over $1million/year, to be paid directly on the national debt. When that’s paid off, spend it on roads, ports, schools, hospitals, & a space program to find somewhere else for the excessive population to live. Don’t want to pay it? Pay your workers more & charge your customers less. “& monkeys will fly out of my butt.”

@ghretighoti – it’s a lot more than just the 1% at the bottom.:It’s not only the economy that hinges on the well-being of the middle class, it’s democracy itself. People who have no time, energy, or interest in participating in democracy – at whatever level – cede away their input and efforts to those who do. This has been the plan of the top 1 to 2% all along. Get rid of the middle class, and you get rid of democracy, or at least their pesky demands.:You can see it in this strip – for whatever reasons, Alex is motivated and has the time and energy to get involved, but Leo has more personal concerns and interests to deal with. Leo’s a great guy, but I personally think Alex should find a better boyfriend, unless she can somehow convince him to join the fight.

The lack of focus during initial demonstrations turned me off, but soon I recognized that so many bad things were happening that broad, nation-wide disgust was justified. Among other issues, ‘Golden parachutes’ at the expense of employee pension funds for executives that ruined their companies, which were ‘too big to fail’ and therefore required federal bail-out, defy any logic. Without a massive public revulsion bringing about massive 2012 changes in congress, we must again ask whether ‘a nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure’.

@Rasczak – nobody waits 3 hrs in line to buy bread in countries like Canada, Scandinavia, most of Europe, Japan, Australia, etc… – these have mixed socialism with capitalism to a much greater degree than the USA, and I would argue to greater success and well-being for their citizens – at least for those not in the top 1 or 2 percent.:Agree that few would want to live in countries where capitalism is completely absent.

This is what OWS is about:

Accused of Deception, Citi Agrees to Pay $285 Million

Citigroup was accused of misleading investors in a $1 billion derivatives deal, then betting against them as the housing market showed signs of distress.

@pd – I hope you’re right – honesty about where people are coming from is always a good thing.

I adopted the Palin drome (Greek word for running) on the chance that she’d run again. I share your relief that she probably won’t, and once it becomes clear that AMABOBAMA (“I’ll love Obama [as our president]”) in 2012, I intend to retire my pseudonym.

A progressive income tax balances the benefits of socialism with the economic drive capitalism provides. At every level, the more you make the more you keep, even if you keep for instance) $500,000 of your fist million and only $50,000 of your tenth million. The profit motive is ALWAYS in play, but it slows down (ideally, it reverses) the concentration of wealth into the hands of the few, freeing up capital to make its way to the bottom rungs, not necessarily in the form of direct cash payments to the poor (although that’s not necessarily precluded, either), but in the form of low-interest loans (or even GRANTS) for low-income entrepreneurs and/or college students.

As was mentioned above, the nation thrives best with a strong and sizeable Middle Class, and in order to allow upward mobility into it, the wealth needs to come from SOMEWHERE, and it certainly isn’t going to come from the poor. The “wealth” of our nation isn’t gauged by how rich our richest citizens are, but by the standard of living of “the 99%.” When the rich demand of the poor that they “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country”, the poor can flip that right back at them: “What are YOU, the Job Creators who create no jobs, willing to sacrifice to shore up the economic backbone of America?”

I think Alex’ time would be better served occupying a seat in a classroom learning Mandarin or Hindi or some other East Asian Language. (I’ve already order my Rosetta stone)

While everyone’s busy bashing corporations, let’s not forget to bash those Hollywood celebrities, professional athletes, and recording artists, who are actually making 10 times per year what corporate executives are making. Why do people resent the earnings of corporate executives, but not resent the wealth of Oprah or Susan Sarandon, et al. (Incidentally, Oprah doesn’t pay her hired help any more than the middle-class lady down the street pays her monthly housekeeper.)

@Kim0158 – people resent the earnings of corp execs more than celebrity figures because the earnings of the former are directly derived from the labors of many people under them. Generally not so with celebrities.

It is class warfare, but the poor and middle classes have just joined the fight.

It started with Reaganomics.

@Alms4Thorby – Warren Buffet, quoted in NY Times Nov 26, 2006::“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

The extraordinary number of postings on today’s thread show the stark divide between the possessive individualists, whose motto is “Keep the government’s hands off our hard-earned money!” and those who are able to see profits are not earned in a vacuum.Possessive individualists ignore the fact that their earnings grow in a political economy that consists of more than $$$ and balance sheets. They tend to measure the health of our economy by its budget alone, forgetting that a robust economy implies an educated, fully employable work force with its wealth adequately distributed so that as many as possible can participate in the getting and spending.Elizabeth Warren indicated the importance of our political economy when she said, on announcing her candidacy for the Senate, that nobody in America is self-made. If you are wealthy, the wealth you enjoy is not yours to keep or to bury. It’s merely been entrusted to you, and you are responsible for using it to enrich the political economy from which you got it.

The vice of capitalism is that it ignores the political aspect of political economy. The virtue of socialism is that it tends to underweight the economic aspect.

Churchill was the most overrated man of the 20th century.

Sorry, didn’t know it was a private site for you to bash one another.

Those who provide also have the power to take away.

I protested before the idiocy of the “Iraq war” started, and the right-wing locals were obnoxious, but being a disabled vet myself backed them off a tad. I’m curious to see where this goes, but maybe Leo, like me, just doesn’t want a confrontation with the idiots opposed to this movement? He’s seen where stupidity can lead.

Egad, with the massive number of post today I hope no one has overlooked that Columbus Day is coming up and forgotten Camping’s prophesies. Everybody’s freaking about the 1% and fergettin’ about the 99% lookin’ at gettin’ left really behind.

Can you guys focus on what’s really important here? Alex and Leo are about to break up!

Doh – after writing this I realized that leftwingpatriot beat me to this prediction!

The purpose of Government is to Protect the opulent rich (our job creators) from the Masses (the Ignorant, Untrustworthy Workers). FDR (A Socialist) put in motion the false ideas that the masses could think for themselves and run nearly anything. Wrong! The worker, the masses simply are not capable, it is not in their genes. The rich are rich because they have been endowed by God with the ability to be the Masters. Simple enough. We must get away from the phony idea of Democracy and allow the rich to control and dictate (Other than the mundane vulgarity of the masses) all that takes place in this Country. If this Nation is to move forward and regain its status, as it was in America’s “Gilded Age,” it is clear that we need, no, we must have a ‘régime change’ from within this Country where those industrial intellects, endowed by God, are again in control. Then, and only then, can the masses be appropriately dealt with, as President Bashar al-Assad is so courageously doing in Syria, so that this Nation can be returned to its former Power and Glory. SatBLRL

All kidding aside, corporate officers have to be held criminally liable for the actions of their companies.