^ Troll who obviously doesn’t mean what he says. Nobody honestly believes that Toles doesn’t criticize Democrats. And even if they do believe it, their beliefs can be quickly refuted by merely looking through his archives right here.
Instead our kids should be listening to the Westboro Baptist Church? Their kids do. They’re indoctrinated, but I guess that’s acceptable. Oh, and getting indoctrinated into clinic bombing must be acceptable, too. Y’know, since fringe elements represent the whole, like gay prides do of the gays.
I wonder how many of the people who find gay pride parades not to be ‘child friendly’ take, or would take, their children to a Hooters’ restaurant. It is, after all, a “family restaurant.”
You guys are all so nuts, and you can’t even see it. Regardless of how inelegantly Paladino might have stated his beliefs, his are those of the vast majority of Americans and completely in line with traditional Biblical values. The Westboro Baptist Church, Jade? Hooters? They have nothing to do with what he was asked….and I believe he even politely made a point to iterate that he does not condemn gays as a group of people! He stated the TRUTH, that it is not a lifestyle that should be presented as equally viable with heterosexuality, and that many of the proponents of the lifestyle are wildly over the top (the parades are always obscene). He probably doesn’t even think about gays much at all. He just gave his honest opinion to the question, and his is in line with a good 60% of Americans.
HabaneroBuck, where did you get this so-called “truth?” I’m a psychologist, and I read the literature, and it seems quite clear that homosexuality is not a lifestyle – it is life. For whatever reason, some people are homosexual. It is not learned, it is what they are, just the way you are (presumably) heterosexual. Therefore, if you say that homosexuality is sinful or wrong, you are, in fact, condemning a group of people for no reason they can control, reasons which may be genetic. You know what they call people who do that…
I don’t take my kids to those parades, either. But it’s not like straight people don’t indulge in perverse activities – I mean, you are on the Internet, aren’t you? It’s not hard to find!
And by the way, your numbers are backwards. Most Americans favor gays getting married, and a higher number still are unfazed by gays enough that 75% of Americans favor eliminating Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell – and that’s about 70% of Republicans as well as 80% of Democrats. Chew on that for a while.
I don’t agree, motive. 31 states have had votes on gay marriage, and every time it has been defeated. I agree that the majority of Americans are accepting of the rights of individuals to live their lives as they choose, but that doesn’t mean they support redefining “marriage” to allow for something called gay marriage.
I’ve never heard a good argument in favor of just accepting “gay” as genetic and unalterable. A propensity? Perhaps. But the question I have for gay males is quite simple…why do you not desire the companionship of a female, who is perfectly configured to meet your every physical requirement SO MUCH better than another man? I’ve actually asked a couple gay guys this question, and I’ve never gotten a satisfactory answer. I just feel there is an underlying psychological defect in the gay personality, and the more that this lifestyle is celebrated, the more chaotic our future generations will be.
And, yes, ultimately the authority for this truth is the Bible, and I do not doubt that the erosion of America’s Biblical foundation will inevitably lead to further legitimization of the homosexual agenda.
“and that many of the proponents of the lifestyle are wildly over the top (the parades are always obscene).”
“in line with traditional Biblical values. The Westboro Baptist Church, Jade?”
You will see that with your two sentences I have shown how you have contradicted your own position.
“his are those of the vast majority of Americans … completely in line with traditional Biblical values.”
I think you and the “vast majority of Americans” haven’t read your Bibles in a while. One of the facets of the American dream is wealth. Wealth is condemned in the Bible, moreso than homosexuality. Lack of concern for your fellow man, a tenet of Libertarianism, is also not in keeping with “traditional Biblical values.” Divorce is also not in keeping with traditional Biblical values– did you know a man is supposed to marry his brother’s wife if she fails to give him a child?
I highly suggest not cherry-picking one portion of a sentence of condemnation and then stating that prejudice based on adherence to one sentence is considered being “in line with traditional Biblical values.”
“Therefore, if you say that homosexuality is sinful or wrong, you are, in fact, condemning a group of people for no reason they can control, reasons which may be genetic”
Yep, traditional Biblical values mark Black people as sinful.
The “curse of Ham” had been used by some members of Abrahamic religions to justify racism and the enslavement of people of Black African ancestry, who were believed to be descendants of Ham.[2][3] They were often called Hamites and were believed to have descended through Canaan or his older brothers. Proponents of slavery in the US increasingly invoked the ‘curse of Ham’ in the US during the 19th century, as a response to the growing abolitionist movement.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham
And let us not forget that sex is used to sell the vast majority of items in the country. The most obscene members of gay pride parades are no more obscene than the average porn magazine or Playboy mansion and their attendance is voluntary.
Let us say you were to look at 1000 of my neighbors and maybe hear them speak.
About 12 % are gay according to averages.
I bet you could not pick out more than a handful of the gays out of an estimated 120.
They work, own homes, have partners and vote.
Jade you keep repeating that wealth is condemned in the Bible, could you please cite the verses you take to mean that?
And Jade really, Westboro Baptist has how many parishners compared to any single gay pride parade.
That is like when people equate clinic bombings with the number of terrorist bombings. Both evil. But can anyone tell me how many people have died in 20 years of clinic bombings? How about 6 months Any 6 months over last 20 years, for terrorist bombings. Same evil, way less numbers.
And lets not forget Jade it was the christians fighting with the North and the Christians marching with Dr. King that helped tear down unbiblical views.
Also you say a man is supposed to marry his brothers wife. True if you stop at the older testament. Yes divorce is wrong except in certain cases.
Rockengolfer, 12%? Hardley. For years 10% was thrown around with no factual data what so ever to back it up. It is more like 1 in 20 and that is only how one defines ‘gay’. How many transexuals are in that number? Are they gay or just in the genetic wrong body? Do we count bi-sexual? Is bi-sexuality genetic? For that matter has any conclusive proof that homosexuality is genetic been proven? There are many psychological studies that have ‘suggested’ that homosexuality IS psychological. (NO I am not saying there is proof either way.)
“Also you say a man is supposed to marry his brothers wife. True if you stop at the older testament”
The incredibly negative anti-gay rhetoric of the Bible stops in the Old Testament, too. You’ll notice, however, that people like to bring it up as if Jesus said it. Jesus was a more forgiving individual who taught tolerance and compassion.
“Jade you keep repeating that wealth is condemned in the Bible, could you please cite the verses you take to mean that?”
Certainly. Take your pick on version:
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
http://bible.cc/matthew/19-24.htm
Not impossible, but then again, it’s not impossible for homosexuals to get into Heaven, either. No more impossible than many other sins, which is why it seems incredibly disingenuous to me to use legal-gay-bashing, when clearly the Bible speaks negatively of so many other sins that are given a free pass by these same people.
“And Jade really, Westboro Baptist has how many parishners compared to any single gay pride parade. ”
It’s not like the Westboro Baptist church is the only extremist church I can name, it’s just the most popular one with the media. And how many gays in a single gay pride event compared to the total population? You forget, that many people who actually go to gay pride parades are actually NOT gay.
“How many transexuals are in that number?”
Numerically difficult to count, but some suggest 0.25 - 1.0% of the population.
“Are they gay or just in the genetic wrong body?”
Dissections of the brains of numerous trans women show they have female brains [in a body born male].
” For that matter has any conclusive proof that homosexuality is genetic been proven?”
Far more so than there is evidence it’s a choice. Some studies have shown that chance of homosexuality increases with the number of sons born to a woman as her body’s immune system rejects the testosterone of male babies; some studies show that the brains of lesbians and gays are more likely to appear male or female, respectively.
“There are many psychological studies that have ‘suggested’ that homosexuality IS psychological”
Choices can be changed, and thus far absolutely no method exists to ‘change’ a homosexual’s orientation. You can change someone’s religion far more easily than their orientation. All studies and organizations that have claimed they have ways to cure gays and have ‘thousands’ of examples of cured gays have all been debunked as cash scams.
There’re also genetic variances. XXX females and XXXY males, for example.
And of course, my favorite, hermaphrodites. This is the one I can toss at Bible-thumpers because they CAN’T answer it: “If homosexuality is so clearly a sin in the Bible; that men cannot dress as women or act femininely or visa versa; what of hermaphrodites?” Because if the lines of gender are supposed to be so absolutely clear-cut… why did God allow inter-sexed conditions?
I understand what you think about wealth but I still disagree with how you take that passage. Jesus was talking to a rich man but also a spiritually prideful man. He asked how to get to heaven and said he did all those things Jesus had listed. Jesus then hit him where the hardness in his heart was, his treasures. He said if you would be complete then give away everything and follow me. And the man walked away. Jesus didnt say to be saved he had to, didn’t say he was wrong for having them. I believe he was pointing out the mans weak spot. And that since the rich had little NEED to rely on God in their minds, it was hard for them to get to heaven.
At least 2 of the apostles had their own business, maybe four. James and John def. The were in their fishing boats with their servents. I believe Peter and Andrew were in the same boat, (If you pardon the pun) but can’t back that up right now. Matthew had enough money to purchase the right to collect taxes for Rome (expensive). Paul had enough for the best tutors and teachers and enough to purchase citizenship from Rome. . Joseph of Arimethea was spoken of well. Luke was a physician.
Wealth is just a gift or a tool, like a hammer. You can build a house or you can kill some one with it. It is how the gift is used. If you use your wealth to cheat or rob the poor (The example of turning over tables in the temple) or subvert justice, it is wrong and condemned. On its own, it is nothing, and there is nothing condemning wealth out right or living a better life style if tithing and giving of alms was done. (That I am aware of)
Remember the Bible does not claim, “Money is the root of all evil” It says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.
Jade, I do not believe GOd created inter-sexed conditions. As far as hermaphrodites are concerned I do think things like it are mentioned in the Bible. Not that specific example. But to us, it is just the genetic code breaking down once in awhile. Been happening since the fall and will continue to happen till the end. In the example you posted above in Matthew 19:24, a few verses before 19:12 Jesus is talking about some people being BORN Eunichs, some being made (castrated) into them and some choosing to be celibate for faith.
Disease and the corruption of our genetic code is not a punishment from God (as some idiots claim). It is something that happens in nature. Now again I hate debating a statistical grain of sand, (the numbers of hermaphrodites) vs the greater majority. But of course it IS important to the person who is that grain of sand. (Again statistically speaking) The Bible could not list every possability in life. If I was a hermaphrodite, I would pray first and then seek advice from a spiritual councilor that they like and have learned enough about to trust.
Look, I will be honest and open myself up to more ridicule, I believe the Bible and in God. But do I agree with everything? Of course not, I would be a little dissapointed if God thought exactly like FrankinNJ. (A little scared too).. When that happens, I pray and study.
For the record ANYONE in the LGBT community has as much of God’s love as I have. Christians do not have the market on God’s love. Anyone, anywhere should be allowed into God’s true churches, however, just as when I might not agree with something, they do not have the right to demand the churches views be changed, if it can not be backed up by scripture.
(Forgive my spelling, it is a weakness) and sorry for being long winded and souonding preachy.
WarBush over 13 years ago
Doubles as Nudy Gingrich.
tomcib over 13 years ago
Politics at its finest. Any wonder these folks rank with child molesters?
rockngolfer over 13 years ago
No wonder good, honest men and women don’t want to be politicians.
tpenna over 13 years ago
^ Troll who obviously doesn’t mean what he says. Nobody honestly believes that Toles doesn’t criticize Democrats. And even if they do believe it, their beliefs can be quickly refuted by merely looking through his archives right here.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
“No Our Kids do not need to see that.”
Instead our kids should be listening to the Westboro Baptist Church? Their kids do. They’re indoctrinated, but I guess that’s acceptable. Oh, and getting indoctrinated into clinic bombing must be acceptable, too. Y’know, since fringe elements represent the whole, like gay prides do of the gays.pirate227 over 13 years ago
Hey Teapublicans, next time you wonder why people think your party is full of bigots, homophobes and loons, take a look at who you nominate.
Oh, and thanks by the way.
alan.gurka over 13 years ago
Don’t tuck any money in his shorts and maybe he’ll go away.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
I wonder how many of the people who find gay pride parades not to be ‘child friendly’ take, or would take, their children to a Hooters’ restaurant. It is, after all, a “family restaurant.”
I’d love to see some statistics on this.
HabaneroBuck over 13 years ago
You guys are all so nuts, and you can’t even see it. Regardless of how inelegantly Paladino might have stated his beliefs, his are those of the vast majority of Americans and completely in line with traditional Biblical values. The Westboro Baptist Church, Jade? Hooters? They have nothing to do with what he was asked….and I believe he even politely made a point to iterate that he does not condemn gays as a group of people! He stated the TRUTH, that it is not a lifestyle that should be presented as equally viable with heterosexuality, and that many of the proponents of the lifestyle are wildly over the top (the parades are always obscene). He probably doesn’t even think about gays much at all. He just gave his honest opinion to the question, and his is in line with a good 60% of Americans.
rockngolfer over 13 years ago
The TEA Party can provide some entertainment, anyway. Some misspelled signs
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bl-misspelled-signs.htm
On that same site is late night jokes from all of the late night comedians.
Motivemagus over 13 years ago
HabaneroBuck, where did you get this so-called “truth?” I’m a psychologist, and I read the literature, and it seems quite clear that homosexuality is not a lifestyle – it is life. For whatever reason, some people are homosexual. It is not learned, it is what they are, just the way you are (presumably) heterosexual. Therefore, if you say that homosexuality is sinful or wrong, you are, in fact, condemning a group of people for no reason they can control, reasons which may be genetic. You know what they call people who do that… I don’t take my kids to those parades, either. But it’s not like straight people don’t indulge in perverse activities – I mean, you are on the Internet, aren’t you? It’s not hard to find! And by the way, your numbers are backwards. Most Americans favor gays getting married, and a higher number still are unfazed by gays enough that 75% of Americans favor eliminating Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell – and that’s about 70% of Republicans as well as 80% of Democrats. Chew on that for a while.
HabaneroBuck over 13 years ago
I don’t agree, motive. 31 states have had votes on gay marriage, and every time it has been defeated. I agree that the majority of Americans are accepting of the rights of individuals to live their lives as they choose, but that doesn’t mean they support redefining “marriage” to allow for something called gay marriage.
I’ve never heard a good argument in favor of just accepting “gay” as genetic and unalterable. A propensity? Perhaps. But the question I have for gay males is quite simple…why do you not desire the companionship of a female, who is perfectly configured to meet your every physical requirement SO MUCH better than another man? I’ve actually asked a couple gay guys this question, and I’ve never gotten a satisfactory answer. I just feel there is an underlying psychological defect in the gay personality, and the more that this lifestyle is celebrated, the more chaotic our future generations will be.
And, yes, ultimately the authority for this truth is the Bible, and I do not doubt that the erosion of America’s Biblical foundation will inevitably lead to further legitimization of the homosexual agenda.
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
“and that many of the proponents of the lifestyle are wildly over the top (the parades are always obscene).” “in line with traditional Biblical values. The Westboro Baptist Church, Jade?”
You will see that with your two sentences I have shown how you have contradicted your own position.“his are those of the vast majority of Americans … completely in line with traditional Biblical values.”
I think you and the “vast majority of Americans” haven’t read your Bibles in a while. One of the facets of the American dream is wealth. Wealth is condemned in the Bible, moreso than homosexuality. Lack of concern for your fellow man, a tenet of Libertarianism, is also not in keeping with “traditional Biblical values.” Divorce is also not in keeping with traditional Biblical values– did you know a man is supposed to marry his brother’s wife if she fails to give him a child? I highly suggest not cherry-picking one portion of a sentence of condemnation and then stating that prejudice based on adherence to one sentence is considered being “in line with traditional Biblical values.”“Therefore, if you say that homosexuality is sinful or wrong, you are, in fact, condemning a group of people for no reason they can control, reasons which may be genetic”
Yep, traditional Biblical values mark Black people as sinful.The “curse of Ham” had been used by some members of Abrahamic religions to justify racism and the enslavement of people of Black African ancestry, who were believed to be descendants of Ham.[2][3] They were often called Hamites and were believed to have descended through Canaan or his older brothers. Proponents of slavery in the US increasingly invoked the ‘curse of Ham’ in the US during the 19th century, as a response to the growing abolitionist movement.[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
And let us not forget that sex is used to sell the vast majority of items in the country. The most obscene members of gay pride parades are no more obscene than the average porn magazine or Playboy mansion and their attendance is voluntary.
rockngolfer over 13 years ago
I am trying to take all of this in.
Let us say you were to look at 1000 of my neighbors and maybe hear them speak. About 12 % are gay according to averages. I bet you could not pick out more than a handful of the gays out of an estimated 120. They work, own homes, have partners and vote.
vatonaught over 13 years ago
The corporate owners of Free Speech have spoken.
FrankinNJ over 13 years ago
Jade you keep repeating that wealth is condemned in the Bible, could you please cite the verses you take to mean that?
And Jade really, Westboro Baptist has how many parishners compared to any single gay pride parade. That is like when people equate clinic bombings with the number of terrorist bombings. Both evil. But can anyone tell me how many people have died in 20 years of clinic bombings? How about 6 months Any 6 months over last 20 years, for terrorist bombings. Same evil, way less numbers.
And lets not forget Jade it was the christians fighting with the North and the Christians marching with Dr. King that helped tear down unbiblical views.
Also you say a man is supposed to marry his brothers wife. True if you stop at the older testament. Yes divorce is wrong except in certain cases.
Rockengolfer, 12%? Hardley. For years 10% was thrown around with no factual data what so ever to back it up. It is more like 1 in 20 and that is only how one defines ‘gay’. How many transexuals are in that number? Are they gay or just in the genetic wrong body? Do we count bi-sexual? Is bi-sexuality genetic? For that matter has any conclusive proof that homosexuality is genetic been proven? There are many psychological studies that have ‘suggested’ that homosexuality IS psychological. (NO I am not saying there is proof either way.)
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
“Also you say a man is supposed to marry his brothers wife. True if you stop at the older testament”
The incredibly negative anti-gay rhetoric of the Bible stops in the Old Testament, too. You’ll notice, however, that people like to bring it up as if Jesus said it. Jesus was a more forgiving individual who taught tolerance and compassion.“Jade you keep repeating that wealth is condemned in the Bible, could you please cite the verses you take to mean that?”
Certainly. Take your pick on version:
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” http://bible.cc/matthew/19-24.htm
Not impossible, but then again, it’s not impossible for homosexuals to get into Heaven, either. No more impossible than many other sins, which is why it seems incredibly disingenuous to me to use legal-gay-bashing, when clearly the Bible speaks negatively of so many other sins that are given a free pass by these same people.
“And Jade really, Westboro Baptist has how many parishners compared to any single gay pride parade. ”
It’s not like the Westboro Baptist church is the only extremist church I can name, it’s just the most popular one with the media. And how many gays in a single gay pride event compared to the total population? You forget, that many people who actually go to gay pride parades are actually NOT gay.“How many transexuals are in that number?”
Numerically difficult to count, but some suggest 0.25 - 1.0% of the population.“Are they gay or just in the genetic wrong body?”
Dissections of the brains of numerous trans women show they have female brains [in a body born male].” For that matter has any conclusive proof that homosexuality is genetic been proven?”
Far more so than there is evidence it’s a choice. Some studies have shown that chance of homosexuality increases with the number of sons born to a woman as her body’s immune system rejects the testosterone of male babies; some studies show that the brains of lesbians and gays are more likely to appear male or female, respectively.“There are many psychological studies that have ‘suggested’ that homosexuality IS psychological”
Choices can be changed, and thus far absolutely no method exists to ‘change’ a homosexual’s orientation. You can change someone’s religion far more easily than their orientation. All studies and organizations that have claimed they have ways to cure gays and have ‘thousands’ of examples of cured gays have all been debunked as cash scams.Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
There’re also genetic variances. XXX females and XXXY males, for example.
And of course, my favorite, hermaphrodites. This is the one I can toss at Bible-thumpers because they CAN’T answer it: “If homosexuality is so clearly a sin in the Bible; that men cannot dress as women or act femininely or visa versa; what of hermaphrodites?” Because if the lines of gender are supposed to be so absolutely clear-cut… why did God allow inter-sexed conditions?
FrankinNJ over 13 years ago
Hey Jade thanks for responding.
I understand what you think about wealth but I still disagree with how you take that passage. Jesus was talking to a rich man but also a spiritually prideful man. He asked how to get to heaven and said he did all those things Jesus had listed. Jesus then hit him where the hardness in his heart was, his treasures. He said if you would be complete then give away everything and follow me. And the man walked away. Jesus didnt say to be saved he had to, didn’t say he was wrong for having them. I believe he was pointing out the mans weak spot. And that since the rich had little NEED to rely on God in their minds, it was hard for them to get to heaven.
At least 2 of the apostles had their own business, maybe four. James and John def. The were in their fishing boats with their servents. I believe Peter and Andrew were in the same boat, (If you pardon the pun) but can’t back that up right now. Matthew had enough money to purchase the right to collect taxes for Rome (expensive). Paul had enough for the best tutors and teachers and enough to purchase citizenship from Rome. . Joseph of Arimethea was spoken of well. Luke was a physician.
Wealth is just a gift or a tool, like a hammer. You can build a house or you can kill some one with it. It is how the gift is used. If you use your wealth to cheat or rob the poor (The example of turning over tables in the temple) or subvert justice, it is wrong and condemned. On its own, it is nothing, and there is nothing condemning wealth out right or living a better life style if tithing and giving of alms was done. (That I am aware of)
Remember the Bible does not claim, “Money is the root of all evil” It says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.
FrankinNJ over 13 years ago
Jade, I do not believe GOd created inter-sexed conditions. As far as hermaphrodites are concerned I do think things like it are mentioned in the Bible. Not that specific example. But to us, it is just the genetic code breaking down once in awhile. Been happening since the fall and will continue to happen till the end. In the example you posted above in Matthew 19:24, a few verses before 19:12 Jesus is talking about some people being BORN Eunichs, some being made (castrated) into them and some choosing to be celibate for faith.
Disease and the corruption of our genetic code is not a punishment from God (as some idiots claim). It is something that happens in nature. Now again I hate debating a statistical grain of sand, (the numbers of hermaphrodites) vs the greater majority. But of course it IS important to the person who is that grain of sand. (Again statistically speaking) The Bible could not list every possability in life. If I was a hermaphrodite, I would pray first and then seek advice from a spiritual councilor that they like and have learned enough about to trust.
Look, I will be honest and open myself up to more ridicule, I believe the Bible and in God. But do I agree with everything? Of course not, I would be a little dissapointed if God thought exactly like FrankinNJ. (A little scared too).. When that happens, I pray and study.
For the record ANYONE in the LGBT community has as much of God’s love as I have. Christians do not have the market on God’s love. Anyone, anywhere should be allowed into God’s true churches, however, just as when I might not agree with something, they do not have the right to demand the churches views be changed, if it can not be backed up by scripture.
(Forgive my spelling, it is a weakness) and sorry for being long winded and souonding preachy.