Actually, you use (the basics of) calculus and algebra quite often. You just don’t know it, but your brain does. Have you ever gotten a raise and tried to determine how much more was going to some of your various deductions – that is algebra. Have you ever taken a trip and needed to be somewhere at a specific time? You used calculus to make sure you got there in time. You just didn’t know you were using calculus. God designed your brain to work that way; we just weren’t aware of it.
After 45 years in high tech, I have only once used any of my advanced math above the level of basic algebra at work. I’ve used it a couple times in hobbies, modeling high pressure air flow, but not at work. I once took a Cisco equipment test that did not need math above 4th grade level to get a perfect score and any math at all to pass. I call myself a recovering math head – I tutor when called for but that is about all.
Math does not hold a candle to computer programming in teaching somebody to think. Math below the level of calculus ranges from rote memorization to simple tricks. The idea that it teaches people to think is not very credible.
School does not make us smart. I remember in the mid-60s there was hand-wringing that America was losing the brain race; our test scores were among the lowest in the industrial world. Since then we have pioneered lasers, integrated circuits, computers, and landed the first man on the moon. It is not the capabilities of the average that matter for those, but of the exceptional.
An example of everyday use of algebra: Convert 1.5 KG to pounds: Using (a)(b+c)=ab+ac and knowing there are 2.2 KG per pound, and finding multiplying 2.21.5 in my head a bit of a strain, try using algebra: (2.2)*(1+.5)=2.2+1.1=3.3 makes the task easy to do. And that’s a simple example.
Algebra mechanic are fun, but trying to figure out which formula to use when getting a problem asking "if the train is going 5o MPH, wind blowing SW, ten people playing poker in the 3rd car on Tuesdays, which way is the smoke blowing when cumquats cost 60 cents at Trader Joes on Tuesday when its raining in Texas.
I have only taken two real concepts from algebra, both of which are used daily:1. solving equations for x. When you have two numbers, such as your total, and how much sales tax are, you can easily find x, which is how much the store has actually sold the item. Helps from being scammed by “accidental” markups.2. Substitutions. This is what I think basic algebra was teaching us: how to create equations in simpler terms. So, instead of the complex formula for finding sales tax based on your total and the prices of each item bought (a+b+c+d… *sales tax = total), you can break it down to the total * sales tax = total, which makes it much easier to figure out.
TL;DR version: Algebra taught us how to take large, complex problems and break them down into simpler solutions.
D’raekmus: wish I could get away with using your calculation.“Total * sales tax = total” would be more accurately expressed as “Pre-tax total + (pre-tax total * sales tax) = grand total”.
I didn’t use algebra in my work until I became a software developer. Then it became vital for manipulating numeric and non-numeric data, building scripts, the location of data on a page, calculating the number of pages needed, etc. So, if you want to rule out computer programming and anything related to it for a career, by all means, ignore algebra.
Algebra is the foundation of many of the sciences. It is vital to chemistry and physics, for instance. Even if those sciences are not your eventual career, basic scientific knowledge is important to life. I think it would be very difficult to understand some portions of all of the sciences without a fundamental understanding of algebra.
Math is simply a way to describe the things around us accurately. For all too many people, math phobia makes their brain turn off when they see a mathematical expression, but usually the concepts are very simple, and actually intuitive. For example, most people think Calculus is useless, scary, and impossible to grasp, when in fact well all have an intuitive grasp of it, and know innately the relationship between a function, its derivative, and its integral. Heck any time we drive a car, we look at an instrument that gives us the derivative of our position (the speedometer) and the integral of our position (the odometer), and we all understand how the speedometer and odometer relate to where we are, have been, and will be, and, yes, that’s Calculus.
Wiz, this is why you’re stuck working for His Finkness. It’s due to your inability to process good Alchemical formulas, replicate runic patterns precisely, and employ good Arithmancy in your spellcraft.
But seriously, as a math teacher, I freely acknowledge the guilt of many of my colleagues for fostering so much math-phobia. My former students consistently come back to me for help because I focus on how to make Math relevant. I challenge their critical thinking skills so that they can dissect formulas rather than simply memorizing them, and make every attempt to show them how each lesson is relevant to a deeper understanding of the world around them, whether or not they EVER use any of it in their careers. Work is just one part of life, and the more you know, the more you can cultivate curiosity and a sense of wonder, the better you can come to love ALL of it.
favm almost 9 years ago
I graduated from both math and physics. After a couple of low paying jobs I made my career as a salesman.
rshive almost 9 years ago
You got points from the wrong people, Wiz.
RR208 almost 9 years ago
Poor advice.
David in Webb Premium Member almost 9 years ago
Actually, you use (the basics of) calculus and algebra quite often. You just don’t know it, but your brain does. Have you ever gotten a raise and tried to determine how much more was going to some of your various deductions – that is algebra. Have you ever taken a trip and needed to be somewhere at a specific time? You used calculus to make sure you got there in time. You just didn’t know you were using calculus. God designed your brain to work that way; we just weren’t aware of it.
flagmichael almost 9 years ago
After 45 years in high tech, I have only once used any of my advanced math above the level of basic algebra at work. I’ve used it a couple times in hobbies, modeling high pressure air flow, but not at work. I once took a Cisco equipment test that did not need math above 4th grade level to get a perfect score and any math at all to pass. I call myself a recovering math head – I tutor when called for but that is about all.
Math does not hold a candle to computer programming in teaching somebody to think. Math below the level of calculus ranges from rote memorization to simple tricks. The idea that it teaches people to think is not very credible.
flagmichael almost 9 years ago
School does not make us smart. I remember in the mid-60s there was hand-wringing that America was losing the brain race; our test scores were among the lowest in the industrial world. Since then we have pioneered lasers, integrated circuits, computers, and landed the first man on the moon. It is not the capabilities of the average that matter for those, but of the exceptional.
lazydude41 almost 9 years ago
An example of everyday use of algebra: Convert 1.5 KG to pounds: Using (a)(b+c)=ab+ac and knowing there are 2.2 KG per pound, and finding multiplying 2.21.5 in my head a bit of a strain, try using algebra: (2.2)*(1+.5)=2.2+1.1=3.3 makes the task easy to do. And that’s a simple example.
JanLC almost 9 years ago
A spreadsheet formula IS basic algebra.
Al Nala almost 9 years ago
I am impressed with the comments today. No politics; no trolls. Well, the day is early, and I’m not coming back.
Banjo Gordy Premium Member almost 9 years ago
Algebra mechanic are fun, but trying to figure out which formula to use when getting a problem asking "if the train is going 5o MPH, wind blowing SW, ten people playing poker in the 3rd car on Tuesdays, which way is the smoke blowing when cumquats cost 60 cents at Trader Joes on Tuesday when its raining in Texas.
neverenoughgold almost 9 years ago
One of the questions I would ask during an interview for a potential hire was, “How much is 10% of a dollar?”
If the individual asked for a pencil and paper or wanted to use a calculator, the odds were high they weren’t hired…
D'raekmus almost 9 years ago
I have only taken two real concepts from algebra, both of which are used daily:1. solving equations for x. When you have two numbers, such as your total, and how much sales tax are, you can easily find x, which is how much the store has actually sold the item. Helps from being scammed by “accidental” markups.2. Substitutions. This is what I think basic algebra was teaching us: how to create equations in simpler terms. So, instead of the complex formula for finding sales tax based on your total and the prices of each item bought (a+b+c+d… *sales tax = total), you can break it down to the total * sales tax = total, which makes it much easier to figure out.
TL;DR version: Algebra taught us how to take large, complex problems and break them down into simpler solutions.
Cerabooge almost 9 years ago
D’raekmus: wish I could get away with using your calculation.“Total * sales tax = total” would be more accurately expressed as “Pre-tax total + (pre-tax total * sales tax) = grand total”.
Charlie Fogwhistle almost 9 years ago
I didn’t use algebra in my work until I became a software developer. Then it became vital for manipulating numeric and non-numeric data, building scripts, the location of data on a page, calculating the number of pages needed, etc. So, if you want to rule out computer programming and anything related to it for a career, by all means, ignore algebra.
jbarnes almost 9 years ago
Algebra is the foundation of many of the sciences. It is vital to chemistry and physics, for instance. Even if those sciences are not your eventual career, basic scientific knowledge is important to life. I think it would be very difficult to understand some portions of all of the sciences without a fundamental understanding of algebra.
ChukLitl Premium Member almost 9 years ago
@NabuquduriuzhurTrig without algebra???@lazydude41.5 is ½, it’s easier to divide by 2 than multiply by 5.
Carl R almost 9 years ago
Math is simply a way to describe the things around us accurately. For all too many people, math phobia makes their brain turn off when they see a mathematical expression, but usually the concepts are very simple, and actually intuitive. For example, most people think Calculus is useless, scary, and impossible to grasp, when in fact well all have an intuitive grasp of it, and know innately the relationship between a function, its derivative, and its integral. Heck any time we drive a car, we look at an instrument that gives us the derivative of our position (the speedometer) and the integral of our position (the odometer), and we all understand how the speedometer and odometer relate to where we are, have been, and will be, and, yes, that’s Calculus.
JP Steve Premium Member almost 9 years ago
I love the “Foxtrot” comic where Peter restates the “unsolvable” algebra problem as a trip to the mall and Page solves it in her head!
Seeker149 Premium Member almost 9 years ago
Wiz, this is why you’re stuck working for His Finkness. It’s due to your inability to process good Alchemical formulas, replicate runic patterns precisely, and employ good Arithmancy in your spellcraft.
But seriously, as a math teacher, I freely acknowledge the guilt of many of my colleagues for fostering so much math-phobia. My former students consistently come back to me for help because I focus on how to make Math relevant. I challenge their critical thinking skills so that they can dissect formulas rather than simply memorizing them, and make every attempt to show them how each lesson is relevant to a deeper understanding of the world around them, whether or not they EVER use any of it in their careers. Work is just one part of life, and the more you know, the more you can cultivate curiosity and a sense of wonder, the better you can come to love ALL of it.