Sam is NOT the one who should be on the spot. But he who cannot be blamed, and all of his staff that did what he wanted, even if he got what he wanted by implication, rather than putting anything in writing, or on any record. Chickenthawks; should be on a rotisserie.
Night-Gaunt49: So true. Chris Hayes had a good rant last night about the so-called “nation of laws”. Along with the Wall Street coup of 2008 and the unindicted killer police, refusal to indict the perpetrators of these war crimes clearly shows that we are NOT a “nation of laws”.
To me there is a very simple principle at work here. If it is torture when it is done to our soldiers (waterboarding), then it is torture when we do it to others. No one has any right to be surprised or to object when it turns out that our captured servicemen have been tortured because we have committed the same acts.Principles are not something to which you hold other people. They are the standards to which you hold yourself. If we do not live up to our alleged principles, then we lose any legitimate claim to a moral high ground. If we do not act better than “them”, whoever “they” are at present, then we are no better than them. If we stoop to the same level as our adversary, we become what we abhor.I am not qualified to say whether sleep deprivation or loud sound (at what decibel level?) is torture. If it causes physical damage it is probably torture. The term “stress positions” needs to be specifically defined to decide if it is torture or not. There are medieval torture devices that could be classified thus, and no one would question whether or not they constitute torture. Let’s practice what we preach.
What do you call a father holding the dead body of his child killed by “shock and awe”; torture.
Long before the invasion anyone informed on real conditions in the Middle East or Iraq knew that the Bush rush to war was based totally on lies, and fabricated fear in the American public. Nothing in the report is actually new, or “news” around the world. Which is why I spent time protesting our entry into this madness of revenge for “W” and friends.
I’m depressed by , and angered by, the ludicrous outrage of chickenhawks, liars, fools, and the sheeple who buy such lies, and cry for blood, when none of theirs has been, or ever will be, shed, for their vicarious lust.
To those of us who’ve “been there, done that”, their mentality makes us recoil in disgust.
Why did this report start in 2001 when the the Torture and Renditions started in 1995? Is this another political stunt? BTW the war in Iraq started in 1998 with Operation Desert Fox. Clinton signed the order the day before Monica Lowinsky testified in his impeachment trial.
Dtroutma over 9 years ago
Sam is NOT the one who should be on the spot. But he who cannot be blamed, and all of his staff that did what he wanted, even if he got what he wanted by implication, rather than putting anything in writing, or on any record. Chickenthawks; should be on a rotisserie.
braindead Premium Member over 9 years ago
Dunno the Republicans didn’t want the report released.
I mean, It’s OKAY if a Republican Does It.
Isn’t it?
fatchance over 9 years ago
Who was blamed for the nazi crimes against humanity? All Germans, because they failed to act!We are all guilty, because we all knew.
Darsan54 Premium Member over 9 years ago
Kinda like the way you think.
Cerabooge over 9 years ago
SizeofaPea: “most Americans were vehemently against it.” And yet they continue to vote for the politicians who love it. Go figure.
Cerabooge over 9 years ago
Night-Gaunt49: So true. Chris Hayes had a good rant last night about the so-called “nation of laws”. Along with the Wall Street coup of 2008 and the unindicted killer police, refusal to indict the perpetrators of these war crimes clearly shows that we are NOT a “nation of laws”.
Liverlips McCracken Premium Member over 9 years ago
To me there is a very simple principle at work here. If it is torture when it is done to our soldiers (waterboarding), then it is torture when we do it to others. No one has any right to be surprised or to object when it turns out that our captured servicemen have been tortured because we have committed the same acts.Principles are not something to which you hold other people. They are the standards to which you hold yourself. If we do not live up to our alleged principles, then we lose any legitimate claim to a moral high ground. If we do not act better than “them”, whoever “they” are at present, then we are no better than them. If we stoop to the same level as our adversary, we become what we abhor.I am not qualified to say whether sleep deprivation or loud sound (at what decibel level?) is torture. If it causes physical damage it is probably torture. The term “stress positions” needs to be specifically defined to decide if it is torture or not. There are medieval torture devices that could be classified thus, and no one would question whether or not they constitute torture. Let’s practice what we preach.
Dtroutma over 9 years ago
What do you call a father holding the dead body of his child killed by “shock and awe”; torture.
Long before the invasion anyone informed on real conditions in the Middle East or Iraq knew that the Bush rush to war was based totally on lies, and fabricated fear in the American public. Nothing in the report is actually new, or “news” around the world. Which is why I spent time protesting our entry into this madness of revenge for “W” and friends.
I’m depressed by , and angered by, the ludicrous outrage of chickenhawks, liars, fools, and the sheeple who buy such lies, and cry for blood, when none of theirs has been, or ever will be, shed, for their vicarious lust.
To those of us who’ve “been there, done that”, their mentality makes us recoil in disgust.
TLH1310 Premium Member over 9 years ago
Why did this report start in 2001 when the the Torture and Renditions started in 1995? Is this another political stunt? BTW the war in Iraq started in 1998 with Operation Desert Fox. Clinton signed the order the day before Monica Lowinsky testified in his impeachment trial.
lectricdude over 9 years ago
…hear hear…!…
Dtroutma over 9 years ago
T: Bush 41 in 91. But before that when we betrayed Faisal, after creating Iraq for him, shortly after we put him in power.