Tom Toles for June 15, 2014

Yeah, if we hadn’t broken* it in the first place. . . . .

*that should read “stabbed”

Drop Bush, North, Cheney,Wolfowitz, Feith, Bremmer, Rice (Condi), and a few of their friends in as a “strike team” to retake the country!

And send Rumsfield in an un-armored car!

And what does Tony Blair say about it om today’s BBC?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27852832

The man’s insane.

And the cost of the Vietnam War (in that case the Democrats mistake) was the killing of not only some 55,000 Americans, but also the killing of the greatest space program the planet had ever seen. Thus abdicating our leadership in the very technologies that would have eventually saved mankind from a very probable extinction. And what was that cost? How about beyond estimate!!

Please not that I am not excusing our latest Republican war fiascoes, just bringing up a very hidden cost of the futility of war. A cost that our future generations may very well have to pay some day. Think they will thank us for it? I have very great doubts!!

“War is justified when it is necessary, not when it is merely useful.” I don’t remember the source for this, and I don’t know that I entirely agree with it, but it does have a point.

I would fifty years of failed efforts to remake the world convince us to quit sticking our nose in “reforming” the rest of the world.

Nixon actually prolonged the war, managing to sink LBJ’s peace talks when they looked dangerously close to succeeding.

wondered wistfully: “…One cannot blame Bush, I think…I just do not know…”

Allow me to help you: Yes, yes you can.

Adrian chided: “We must spend less time on playing childish “blame games”, and more time learning from our mistakes .”

Knowing where the blame lies certainly helps in learning from the mistakes.

Adrian said on further: “BUT , 50,000 days to mold Iraq into a civilized nation probably an impossibility .”Oh, was that what you were doing during the 3209 days our governments were officially in Iraq (19/03/03 – 31/12/11), moulding Iraq into a ‘civilised’ nation? Uh-ah.

“And this is NOT our task anyway”

No, your task is to break things.

“We need a UN for this …And we do NOT have one .. IMO…”

IMO, too, we do not have a U.N.. It is a recurring meme from me: May I suggest that you petition your government along with the other 4 governments that hold the Permanent Security Council Vetos to give it up?Thanks, I knew I could count on you.

We didn’t “break it in the first place”. Middle Eastern society has been broken for longer than the United States has existed. In the history of that region, peace has been a rare situation, always imposed by a government strong enough to prevent people who would otherwise be shooting each other from doing so. It can’t be any different for people who would shoot each other over religious differences that would be considered trivial by anyone who had any education that involved more than one book.But the saying " the enemy of my enemy is my friend" does not apply in this case. Each side is our enemy. We are “infidels”, making us more “killable” to each side than the other side and going over there to interfere is of no value to anyone in America. We need to simply stand back, allow them to manage their affairs however they would if we didn’t exist, and maybe in a few hundred years they will work it out.In those cases where we can infuse some actual education into the mix, that probably would be helpful— which is why they hate teachers more than soldiers. But military interference from America accomplishes nothing except creating hatred for our country. Granted, mutual hatred for America might bring the two sides together sooner than might otherwise be the case, to fight us, but that doesn’t seem to me to be a desirable outcome. Ultimately, each country belongs to the citizens of that country, and until they fix it out, it ain’t fixed.

From Britain we have some kids and young adults heading off to fight in Syria; who knows, perhaps now also in Iraq.You can do the decent thing: follow suit and head off to fight them off.

“I served my time on the wall protecting this country. Did you?”

No, I skipped the country when my military conscription call up papers came in the post.

I used to tell my history students that as a Vietnam Vet I thought that about the only good thing to result from that war was the realization that we’d never do anything that dumb again. Iraq proved me wrong.

Ah yes, make Iraq “civilized”, as a “baby” nation only a little over 200 years old, considers itself a role model for the ONLY civilized nation!!

Hmm, Tigris-Euphrates valley, birthplace of civilization, yep let’s be civilized, and go bomb somebody.

Is anybody surprised that this happened after the withdrawal?Now it might be best to divide IRAQ into 3.

Although the Pres said no US ground forces will return to Iraq, I still have a fear that may be reversed. Exxon-Mobil, Conoco & a third US company have BIG investments and rights to the Iraqi oil. And, they pay big money to congressional election campaigns.

Thanks George! I’m glad you have so decreed.

@AL S. Actually the domino theory was a valid view. The Vietnam war simply outlasted the issue