when mormon mitt was asked if removing billions from the economy was a good idea, he replied no, it wasn’t. so, he really is not for austerity. at least austerity for the wealthy. austerity still doesn’t work. see latin america, eurozone (even germany), japan, russia.
Switzerland, Austria, Norway, and the Netherlands are doing quite well; Canada, Finland, Sweden and Denmark have a lower rate than we do, but still rather high, higher than Germany. The United Kingdom has about the same rate as the U.S., 8.1%
Of course these figures don’t reflect involuntary underemployment, or workers who, in a better economy, would try for something else, but now don’t dare.
Mikefive is correct, it isn’t as simple as austerity/no austerity. Most nations can afford to take better care of their people because they don’t have to maintain a massive military-security apparatus. Some nations discourage laying people off the way we do. Nations that have national health insurance, and portable retirement packages, leave workers more able to leave one job for another, or even take the chance of being self-employed. The only way out of our hole is to raise more revenue, and spend less. The questions are, Spend less on whom? and Raise more revenue from whom? As billionaire capitalist Nick Hanauer points out, capitalists “create jobs” only as a last resort, when it is the best way to raise their profits, when the demand for what they provide exceeds their ability to provide it with their existing workforce. Maintaining levels of demand is one of the most important factors. Capitalists are not in it for the benefit of mankind. All other things being equal, the capitalist is motivated to reduce employment and wages, and boost profits that way. The important thing is to make sure than all other things aren’t equal, that there is an advantage to hiring and maintaining wage levels. Conservatives are right, that if labor is cheap enough, unemployment will fall, … but only if demand is rising. If no customers are coming in, then of course it will help me stay in business to pay my sales staff half as much. But if my sales staff are idle because their are no customers, I will not spend the money saved on more idle employees. The myth is, that as long as capitalism remains profitable, it doesn’t matter how few reap the profits. They will spend their money and create the demand for goods and services that will create jobs (“trickle down”), or they will invest their surplus in creating jobs. Neither of these things are true. There is no quick and easy solution.
Profitable countries don’t need to preach austerity. Over time, even the former East Germany will catch house.But what I was going to say first is what is the basis for the unemployment in Greece and Spain? I’d heard that a big part of the problem is them NOT paying their taxes. If folks are collecting state benefits but not contributing a portion of their earnings (more working for cash), I can see why this isn’t working.
“Obama’s socialist plan to take over America didn’t and will never work. He is a failure as a President and one term is too many.”
Someday I hope you wake up and realize how silly you sound when you say things like this. I suppose you will always be willing to ignore the fact that the deregulation of the banking industry, a mainstay of the Republican platform for taking the world back to the 13th century, is what caused the housing crisis?
I think that the loss of 5 million jobs along with the piracy of unscrupulous bankers looking for the quick buck might have contributed to foreclosures.
Henry Ford wisely said he had to pay his workers enough to buy the product they made: that’s “Capitalism” functioning. “Ergonomics” of using machines to replace an ever increasing number of workers (people) who then can’t buy the product, is counter-productive.
American industry was built basically on the auto industry, more cars, more profit. We can only USE so many cars. Okay, we started building more bombs, airplanes, and war machines, so needed more wars. AS the general in charge of the F-22 said “Yes, they’re expensive, but if we didn’t intend to use them, we wouldn’t buy them.”
That simple statement explains a lot of our “problems”. Austerity means no taxes, but jobs means more wars. We need as stimulus that depends on something OTHER than either cars, OR wars.
Infrastructure repair and replacement, through “stimulus spending” that DOES require a modest increase in taxes on those holding the wealth, is the seed that CAN produce a viable crop.
For Pete’s sake, if he were a socialist, don’t you think we’d know by now? Let’s point out the errors in your statement:1. You are using guilt by association2. You are ignoring current data, where it is clear that Obama is pro-business.3. You are apparently ignorant of the fact that there is NOTHING WRONG WITH SOCIALISM! Germany and Scandinavia are doing very well indeed, thank you very much. You seem to be conflating Socialism with Marxism, which is not correct.4. But Obama is NOT a socialist — ask Bernie Sanders, the only actual member of the Socialist party in Congress. So you are merely trying to smear Obama with an accusation that is not only baseless, it is senseless.
golly, I must be a Marxist AND a socialist for having “rubbed elbows” with ’em for a year, and learning things from them. But it was that odd bit of shooting at each other that limited discussion on occasion.
I like what night gaunt said. But we really Don’t want our legs chopped off.It scares me to think of the 1% and their supporters getting in power(more than the tremendous amount they already have.I saw a graph that showed that not only Obama has spent less than any recent president, each time the Democrats are in power, they always spend less. I just wish the many are so closed minded that they won’t even look at the chart.
You need to read past the first line of my posts. The “socialist” thing was a quote from Ima. I was countering his idiotic remark. Let’s not fight among ourselves. Please!
Dtroutma almost 12 years ago
Well, Bush already gave him a vasectomy, with a chain saw.
vwdualnomand almost 12 years ago
when mormon mitt was asked if removing billions from the economy was a good idea, he replied no, it wasn’t. so, he really is not for austerity. at least austerity for the wealthy. austerity still doesn’t work. see latin america, eurozone (even germany), japan, russia.
Doughfoot almost 12 years ago
Greek unemployment, 21.7%Spanish " 24.3%Irish " 14.2%French & Italian " 10.2%
Switzerland, Austria, Norway, and the Netherlands are doing quite well; Canada, Finland, Sweden and Denmark have a lower rate than we do, but still rather high, higher than Germany. The United Kingdom has about the same rate as the U.S., 8.1%
Of course these figures don’t reflect involuntary underemployment, or workers who, in a better economy, would try for something else, but now don’t dare.
Mikefive is correct, it isn’t as simple as austerity/no austerity. Most nations can afford to take better care of their people because they don’t have to maintain a massive military-security apparatus. Some nations discourage laying people off the way we do. Nations that have national health insurance, and portable retirement packages, leave workers more able to leave one job for another, or even take the chance of being self-employed. The only way out of our hole is to raise more revenue, and spend less. The questions are, Spend less on whom? and Raise more revenue from whom? As billionaire capitalist Nick Hanauer points out, capitalists “create jobs” only as a last resort, when it is the best way to raise their profits, when the demand for what they provide exceeds their ability to provide it with their existing workforce. Maintaining levels of demand is one of the most important factors. Capitalists are not in it for the benefit of mankind. All other things being equal, the capitalist is motivated to reduce employment and wages, and boost profits that way. The important thing is to make sure than all other things aren’t equal, that there is an advantage to hiring and maintaining wage levels. Conservatives are right, that if labor is cheap enough, unemployment will fall, … but only if demand is rising. If no customers are coming in, then of course it will help me stay in business to pay my sales staff half as much. But if my sales staff are idle because their are no customers, I will not spend the money saved on more idle employees. The myth is, that as long as capitalism remains profitable, it doesn’t matter how few reap the profits. They will spend their money and create the demand for goods and services that will create jobs (“trickle down”), or they will invest their surplus in creating jobs. Neither of these things are true. There is no quick and easy solution.
ossiningaling almost 12 years ago
Profitable countries don’t need to preach austerity. Over time, even the former East Germany will catch house.But what I was going to say first is what is the basis for the unemployment in Greece and Spain? I’d heard that a big part of the problem is them NOT paying their taxes. If folks are collecting state benefits but not contributing a portion of their earnings (more working for cash), I can see why this isn’t working.
Motivemagus almost 12 years ago
And who is this Muslim Obama? Is he related to our President at all? I think not.
Motivemagus almost 12 years ago
Yo, Ima, Germany is socialist. So is Norway, Sweden, and Denmark.
ninety_nine_percent almost 12 years ago
Nice metaphor Tom! And so true. The GOP refuses to cooperate to improve our economy — domestic enemies, all in an effort to defeat Obama.
tcolkett almost 12 years ago
“Obama’s socialist plan to take over America didn’t and will never work. He is a failure as a President and one term is too many.”
Someday I hope you wake up and realize how silly you sound when you say things like this. I suppose you will always be willing to ignore the fact that the deregulation of the banking industry, a mainstay of the Republican platform for taking the world back to the 13th century, is what caused the housing crisis?
Justice22 almost 12 years ago
I think that the loss of 5 million jobs along with the piracy of unscrupulous bankers looking for the quick buck might have contributed to foreclosures.
pirate227 almost 12 years ago
The painful truth is causing the cons to squeal.Well done, Tom.
Dtroutma almost 12 years ago
Henry Ford wisely said he had to pay his workers enough to buy the product they made: that’s “Capitalism” functioning. “Ergonomics” of using machines to replace an ever increasing number of workers (people) who then can’t buy the product, is counter-productive.
American industry was built basically on the auto industry, more cars, more profit. We can only USE so many cars. Okay, we started building more bombs, airplanes, and war machines, so needed more wars. AS the general in charge of the F-22 said “Yes, they’re expensive, but if we didn’t intend to use them, we wouldn’t buy them.”
That simple statement explains a lot of our “problems”. Austerity means no taxes, but jobs means more wars. We need as stimulus that depends on something OTHER than either cars, OR wars.
Infrastructure repair and replacement, through “stimulus spending” that DOES require a modest increase in taxes on those holding the wealth, is the seed that CAN produce a viable crop.
joe vignone almost 12 years ago
Austerity means getting those trillion dollar tax breaks back from the 1% and investing in America again.
Larhof52 almost 12 years ago
The ax is for the high taxes, wasteful spending and a economy choking bureaucracy.
walruscarver2000 almost 12 years ago
The difference is Mitt really is a Mormon. Obama is merely accused of being a Muslim by people who are trying to attack him.
Motivemagus almost 12 years ago
For Pete’s sake, if he were a socialist, don’t you think we’d know by now? Let’s point out the errors in your statement:1. You are using guilt by association2. You are ignoring current data, where it is clear that Obama is pro-business.3. You are apparently ignorant of the fact that there is NOTHING WRONG WITH SOCIALISM! Germany and Scandinavia are doing very well indeed, thank you very much. You seem to be conflating Socialism with Marxism, which is not correct.4. But Obama is NOT a socialist — ask Bernie Sanders, the only actual member of the Socialist party in Congress. So you are merely trying to smear Obama with an accusation that is not only baseless, it is senseless.
Dtroutma almost 12 years ago
golly, I must be a Marxist AND a socialist for having “rubbed elbows” with ’em for a year, and learning things from them. But it was that odd bit of shooting at each other that limited discussion on occasion.
pam Miner almost 12 years ago
I like what night gaunt said. But we really Don’t want our legs chopped off.It scares me to think of the 1% and their supporters getting in power(more than the tremendous amount they already have.I saw a graph that showed that not only Obama has spent less than any recent president, each time the Democrats are in power, they always spend less. I just wish the many are so closed minded that they won’t even look at the chart.
tcolkett almost 12 years ago
You need to read past the first line of my posts. The “socialist” thing was a quote from Ima. I was countering his idiotic remark. Let’s not fight among ourselves. Please!