75 PERCENT of all potential enlistees ages 17 -24 are either too fat, too uneducated, or have a criminal record that prevents them from enlisting. BOO YAH!
Gays, on the other hand, HAVE been serving in the armed services, a (very) few even openly (though obviously the higher-ups haven’t heard about it). Some have served with distinction.
Furthermore, we’ve already been hamstringing ourselves by dismissing people in KEY career fields (e.g. linguists who could have been providing essential intelligence for the War on Terrorism) just because the boys in question prefer other boys over girls.
I have no idea what god thinks about homosexuals, and I guess I’ll leave that up to him/her/them. It’s a strange kind of arrogance that wants to take over god’s job and god’s judgments. Our job is to build a good and just society here and now. Some actions hurt other people, and we have to prohibit those. But this is supposed to be a free country, so people should be free to express themselves sexually however they want. And it doesn’t matter whether desire for people of the same sex is genetically determined or just a preference. It’s okay. Pardon me for getting a little hot under the collar, but this kind of homophobia just burns me.
Actually, I think conservatives are afraid that after generations of calling someone a “pansy” or some other perjorative for not wanting to fight (or fighting badly), they might actually find out some gays CAN and WILL fight, and those who choose to do so will probably be even better soldiers than they can ever imagine.
Scooter would have had SO MUCH FUN in the Spartan army!
At the same time, neither gays, nor extremist fundamentalist “Christians”, need to wear it on their sleeves, or shove it in our faces.
This country faces far more “sodomy” from the latter than former. All faiths have equal rights, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, Wiccan, atheist, animist, or Christian- get over it!
Hypocrisy is practiced by those who preach from one side of their mouths, and condemn from the other.
Since a man is to a homosexual male the equivalent of what is a woman to a heterosexual man, women should have no problem with showering with men, in general.
churchill
You are dating yourself with the ‘Americanization of Emily’!
I was an usher in a theater when that came out back in late 1964 I believe. I do remember an older man leaving the theater with his wife saying what an anti-patriotic film that was! Some things remain timeless.
We can’t have gay guys prancing around but we can have straight guys trying to get other straight guys naked in a male bonding ritual known as hazing. Pick your sport, profession, or fraternity. Makes no difference.
<======That paddle hurt like a motha…That’s what the pledges used to say back in college. My @$$ is sore though…
Petergrt says, “Why do the homosexuals feel the need to ware [sic] their sexuality on their sleeves?” Well, here’s a little story. I had a very close colleague a few years ago who was gay (and married – where I live same-sex marriage is legal). He and I happened to be on a hiring committee for a teaching position in the history of early Christianity. Part of the process was to take the various candidates to dinner. At one of the dinners, the candidate discovered in the course of conversation that my colleague was gay, and I guess she had never had much to do with gay people, so she started to ask all sorts of somewhat personal questions. My colleague clearly felt uncomfortable about all the questions, and finally he said, “You know, my sexual orientation is probably the least interesting thing about me.”
In my experience, most of the gays and lesbians I know lead very normal middle class lives. Most are in committed relationships or want to be. They have jobs, they own homes, they have children. They don’t wear their sexuality on their sleeves.
Of course there are some flamboyant homosexuals and there are some flamboyant heterosexuals. But flamboyant heterosexuals fit into conservative social expectations. That’s the only difference.
As a retired Infantry First Sergeant I must say that I could give a Sh.t less what a soldiers sexual orientation was. I expected him/her to be a first class soldier and do the job he/she was assigned. Only the ones that tried to make a political statement or social comment about their sexuality were a detriment to the unit. If you want to be a soldier, do the job. If you want to be a politician, talk about your sexuality.
Churchill: Unfortunately you are correct about the danger to gays who out themselves, especially in the Marines (as they discussed on NPR today). But if the brass lets the soldiers know that such violence will not be tolerated, if they take on a leadership role, with this issue, then the number of incidents will be mitigated. If the only leadership on this issue is from the commander in chief, then culture will not change.
Why is the issue of ‘gays in the military’ such a huge objective for the liberals? Would it be per chance their desire to improve the armed forces, because they are so pro-military?
The ‘don’t ask - don’t tell’ policy is all about promiscuity. The great majority of explosions of gays from the military, relate to flagrant exhibition of sexuality, which do cause, though not in as many cases, a disciplinary action for the heterosexual promiscuity as well.
In the end analysis, while I cannot imagine unisex environment in the trenches, the modern military provides opportunities aplenty, such as flying a drone - out of Edwards, for example, where such arrangement might not be a problem.
Quite a tirade, «scottfreitas» ! I’m reminded of a chap I met when I started weight-lifting at the age of 15 ; he was three or four years older and was very helpful in showing me various techniques and tricks. I liked him, but there was one thing about him I found it very difficult to understand - he claimed to hate gays and his favourite sport (aside from weight-lifting, of course) was to cruise the areas in which gay people congregated (not openly, of course -all this took place more than half a century ago), pick someone up, and then beat him up. One of the people he beat up (but not too badly) was a secondary school teacher in the school I attended. I found no attraction whatsoever in these odd games ; I preferred cruising where girls hung out. Only later, with a bit more experience and a better education under my belt (I remembered that I never saw my friend with a girl) did I understand what had been going on - my friend probably felt an attraction to these gay people which he found it impossible to accept, and dealt with this cognitive dissonance in the only way he could, by beating up people to whom he would have liked to make love. I like to think that this sort of thing happens less frequently these days, but it it still happens, and far too often. Thus «Churchillwasright»’s advice to those serving in the US military is well taken, in particular if one doesn’t have a commanding officer and in particular, non-commissioned officers who don’t permit that sort of nonsense….
comYics over 14 years ago
When extremes collide.
sandrino over 14 years ago
We also don’t need bigoted, mouth breathing morons like scottfreitas but there you go.
Motivemagus over 14 years ago
Good Lord, you people are disrespectful of honest, brave, professional soldiers. Get a life.
Wildcard24365 over 14 years ago
Actually, Fritoboy, we need every able-bodied individual we can get. I don’t know if you’ve looked at the stats, but even Faux News reported on this:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/05/new-report-says-percent-young-americans-unfit-military-service/
75 PERCENT of all potential enlistees ages 17 -24 are either too fat, too uneducated, or have a criminal record that prevents them from enlisting. BOO YAH!
Gays, on the other hand, HAVE been serving in the armed services, a (very) few even openly (though obviously the higher-ups haven’t heard about it). Some have served with distinction.
Furthermore, we’ve already been hamstringing ourselves by dismissing people in KEY career fields (e.g. linguists who could have been providing essential intelligence for the War on Terrorism) just because the boys in question prefer other boys over girls.
lonecat over 14 years ago
I have no idea what god thinks about homosexuals, and I guess I’ll leave that up to him/her/them. It’s a strange kind of arrogance that wants to take over god’s job and god’s judgments. Our job is to build a good and just society here and now. Some actions hurt other people, and we have to prohibit those. But this is supposed to be a free country, so people should be free to express themselves sexually however they want. And it doesn’t matter whether desire for people of the same sex is genetically determined or just a preference. It’s okay. Pardon me for getting a little hot under the collar, but this kind of homophobia just burns me.
Wildcard24365 over 14 years ago
Actually, I think conservatives are afraid that after generations of calling someone a “pansy” or some other perjorative for not wanting to fight (or fighting badly), they might actually find out some gays CAN and WILL fight, and those who choose to do so will probably be even better soldiers than they can ever imagine.
Wildcard24365 over 14 years ago
@lonecat: You and me both.
petergrt over 14 years ago
Why do the homosexuals feel the need to ware their sexuality on their sleeves?
Dtroutma over 14 years ago
Scooter would have had SO MUCH FUN in the Spartan army!
At the same time, neither gays, nor extremist fundamentalist “Christians”, need to wear it on their sleeves, or shove it in our faces.
This country faces far more “sodomy” from the latter than former. All faiths have equal rights, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, Wiccan, atheist, animist, or Christian- get over it!
Hypocrisy is practiced by those who preach from one side of their mouths, and condemn from the other.
petergrt over 14 years ago
Since a man is to a homosexual male the equivalent of what is a woman to a heterosexual man, women should have no problem with showering with men, in general.
Man, I want to go back to high school …
Magnaut over 14 years ago
I’ve accepted the idea of homophilia and heterophilia but I cannot understand that transgenderism, or bisexuality are normal and genetically driven
Wildcard24365 over 14 years ago
@petergrt: I dunno why homosexuals “wear their sexuality on their sleeves.”
Maybe if you can answer why HETEROsexuals are so “in your face” about THEIR sexuality, you’d have your answer.
HUMPHRIES over 14 years ago
Scooty, how often do you get out of your cellar ?
johndh123 over 14 years ago
churchill You are dating yourself with the ‘Americanization of Emily’! I was an usher in a theater when that came out back in late 1964 I believe. I do remember an older man leaving the theater with his wife saying what an anti-patriotic film that was! Some things remain timeless.
d_legendary1 over 14 years ago
We can’t have gay guys prancing around but we can have straight guys trying to get other straight guys naked in a male bonding ritual known as hazing. Pick your sport, profession, or fraternity. Makes no difference.
<======That paddle hurt like a motha…That’s what the pledges used to say back in college. My @$$ is sore though…
lonecat over 14 years ago
Petergrt says, “Why do the homosexuals feel the need to ware [sic] their sexuality on their sleeves?” Well, here’s a little story. I had a very close colleague a few years ago who was gay (and married – where I live same-sex marriage is legal). He and I happened to be on a hiring committee for a teaching position in the history of early Christianity. Part of the process was to take the various candidates to dinner. At one of the dinners, the candidate discovered in the course of conversation that my colleague was gay, and I guess she had never had much to do with gay people, so she started to ask all sorts of somewhat personal questions. My colleague clearly felt uncomfortable about all the questions, and finally he said, “You know, my sexual orientation is probably the least interesting thing about me.”
In my experience, most of the gays and lesbians I know lead very normal middle class lives. Most are in committed relationships or want to be. They have jobs, they own homes, they have children. They don’t wear their sexuality on their sleeves.
Of course there are some flamboyant homosexuals and there are some flamboyant heterosexuals. But flamboyant heterosexuals fit into conservative social expectations. That’s the only difference.
lonecat over 14 years ago
Bruce – yeah, there was smoke coming out of ears. I guess if I were a real man I’d go punch somebody.
lonecat over 14 years ago
Bruce, I agree, I was just making a point (in light of the current discussion) about how masculinity is sometimes characterized.
corcho99 over 14 years ago
As a retired Infantry First Sergeant I must say that I could give a Sh.t less what a soldiers sexual orientation was. I expected him/her to be a first class soldier and do the job he/she was assigned. Only the ones that tried to make a political statement or social comment about their sexuality were a detriment to the unit. If you want to be a soldier, do the job. If you want to be a politician, talk about your sexuality.
CourageCD over 14 years ago
Churchill: Unfortunately you are correct about the danger to gays who out themselves, especially in the Marines (as they discussed on NPR today). But if the brass lets the soldiers know that such violence will not be tolerated, if they take on a leadership role, with this issue, then the number of incidents will be mitigated. If the only leadership on this issue is from the commander in chief, then culture will not change.
petergrt over 14 years ago
Why is the issue of ‘gays in the military’ such a huge objective for the liberals? Would it be per chance their desire to improve the armed forces, because they are so pro-military?
The ‘don’t ask - don’t tell’ policy is all about promiscuity. The great majority of explosions of gays from the military, relate to flagrant exhibition of sexuality, which do cause, though not in as many cases, a disciplinary action for the heterosexual promiscuity as well.
In the end analysis, while I cannot imagine unisex environment in the trenches, the modern military provides opportunities aplenty, such as flying a drone - out of Edwards, for example, where such arrangement might not be a problem.
comYics about 14 years ago
Bruce4671, The Old Testament says, “Thou shalt not steal”. That actually still applies.
mhenriday about 14 years ago
Quite a tirade, «scottfreitas» ! I’m reminded of a chap I met when I started weight-lifting at the age of 15 ; he was three or four years older and was very helpful in showing me various techniques and tricks. I liked him, but there was one thing about him I found it very difficult to understand - he claimed to hate gays and his favourite sport (aside from weight-lifting, of course) was to cruise the areas in which gay people congregated (not openly, of course -all this took place more than half a century ago), pick someone up, and then beat him up. One of the people he beat up (but not too badly) was a secondary school teacher in the school I attended. I found no attraction whatsoever in these odd games ; I preferred cruising where girls hung out. Only later, with a bit more experience and a better education under my belt (I remembered that I never saw my friend with a girl) did I understand what had been going on - my friend probably felt an attraction to these gay people which he found it impossible to accept, and dealt with this cognitive dissonance in the only way he could, by beating up people to whom he would have liked to make love. I like to think that this sort of thing happens less frequently these days, but it it still happens, and far too often. Thus «Churchillwasright»’s advice to those serving in the US military is well taken, in particular if one doesn’t have a commanding officer and in particular, non-commissioned officers who don’t permit that sort of nonsense….
Henri