“Next time you are at the docs ask him or her how it is so nice to know that with a vote and word from the President they can become wards of the state.”
And that is going to happen how, exactly? Even the more ambitious versions of the healthcare reform bill don’t come close to turning doctors into civil servants. The closest anything like his came to being true was the adoption of Medicare.
“it’s just a manipulative label they use to fool all the fools who vote for them into ignoring the fact they’re being robbed blind, sold down the river, betrayed, etc etc”
Yep, thanks to the GOP and the “moderate” Dems that is just what’s happening. You think rightwing voters want more of the of the price hikes of the last 15 years? Yet they are being told time and again that anything more than a cosmetic tort reform is nationalization of healthcare, and doing nothing will fix the system in which healthcare costs practically tripled in the last 20 years.
I was waiting for true colors to be displayed in either the Ron Paul or Ayn Rand varieties. I can now go back to ignoring the right wing hate spew that pollutes this comment board.
Health care should be like groceries. The price on the shelf is what you pay. Basic visit: $100. NOT because you have Medicare totally free, union member-your co-pay is $5, small business employee-co-pay $20. Stop with the three card monte mentality. There is nothing government does that it does well. Time to grow up and take care of ourselves and stop waiting for Uncle Sam to parent us. Honesty is the best policy even if we don’t want to hear it!
@lmajs: The doctors get $100, well enough. Yet how exactly you pay for that is the issue. Medicare isn’t free, per se: you have paid for it as you worked, and you pay (less) after you retire. You have paid the $100, bleeep it, so get in and see the doc. You are with a union? You paid the fees there.
No system, or service is “free.” Not the Canadian, not the British one, not the Dutch one, not the US one, whatever form it takes. You pay one way or another - whether in cash from your pocket, as deductions from your pay, taxes, or any other way. The question is how it can be more efficiently run, and how the costs can be better managed. You call it three-card monte, but it’s more management than gambling.
You say “there’s nothing government does that it does well.” Well, I’ve been taught to beware speaking in absolutes, so I’ll paraphrase it “Government is seldom better.” Note that “seldom,” though. Medicare, for example, has much lower administrative costs than nearly ANY of its competitors, and afaik all its direct competitors. Yes, it is more effective, dollar for dollar. If there was better competition, probably its competitors would get their game on and optimize their own services. I would be glad if that happened, but it’s not happening now. Sometimes the free market dogma is just that - dogma. The US, in 2007, paid over 7000 USD for the healthcare of every citizen, insured or no. NO other major western country - not France, not Germany, not the UK, not even Sweden - paid anything remotely close, and all indicators show they have healthcare comparable, and in some areas better, than what Americans have. People Most of these countries paid around HALF the amount Americans did, or less. I’ve heard plenty of horror stories about the British healthcare, but I’ve heard plenty about the US one too - and the cost per person of the British one is around 40% of the American one.
Hey bulltwink guess who the gubmint is ,any one who pays taxes . not some nameless faceless entity with deep poccets. If I want to spend my money on an insurance policy that fits me its nobody elses buisiness but mine and it should stay that way. You are not entiteled to my money no matter how much you think you are. The guv.s policy of one size fits all is stupid and should NEVER be adopted.
Oh yah no time no rhyme no tempo. If you cant do it dont try it makes you look lame.
Compared to Europe and any other industrialized nation we pay the least amount of individual taxes, yet the cons want everyone to believe that we need more tax breaks. This is why government jobs are scarce and why there are long lines at the DMV and such.
But hey, government is bad. We need to do away with it.
toasteroven over 14 years ago
scott:
ha ha ha ha ha. Ha! Ha ha ha ha ha… Ha!
cdward over 14 years ago
The robbed blind part is right. Americans have been robbed blind for a very long time by our for-profit health insurance industry.
4uk4ata over 14 years ago
“Next time you are at the docs ask him or her how it is so nice to know that with a vote and word from the President they can become wards of the state.”
And that is going to happen how, exactly? Even the more ambitious versions of the healthcare reform bill don’t come close to turning doctors into civil servants. The closest anything like his came to being true was the adoption of Medicare.
“it’s just a manipulative label they use to fool all the fools who vote for them into ignoring the fact they’re being robbed blind, sold down the river, betrayed, etc etc”
Yep, thanks to the GOP and the “moderate” Dems that is just what’s happening. You think rightwing voters want more of the of the price hikes of the last 15 years? Yet they are being told time and again that anything more than a cosmetic tort reform is nationalization of healthcare, and doing nothing will fix the system in which healthcare costs practically tripled in the last 20 years.
urbpan over 14 years ago
I was waiting for true colors to be displayed in either the Ron Paul or Ayn Rand varieties. I can now go back to ignoring the right wing hate spew that pollutes this comment board.
eksteen over 14 years ago
Time be grown-ups now.
benbrilling over 14 years ago
Tigger sez: “This Time Round incorporte Republican Idels into the Plan”
Yeah, we need more Republican Idels
(And more idle Republicans.)
benbrilling over 14 years ago
What we have now is the single prayer system.
Dtroutma over 14 years ago
Actually, the patient has been in surgery since the end of WW II, and nothing appreciable has been accomplished, except more profit for “industry”.
Tolestoy over 14 years ago
Wow! The Righteous Wing has devolved from making up childish names to nursery rhymes.
It’s apparent that spelling, punctuation, and the correct use of capital letters are still many grade levels beyond what you’ve learned so far.
Of course, if all of you really are 4 years old, I apologize.
Sometimes I read comments from your ilk about how you resent it when liberals and/or Democrats act like they’re smarter than everyone else.
That has to be the best example of irony, ever.
(Ask your teacher’s aide to explain it to you when you come in from recess.)
Here’s a hint:
It only looks that way when we’re surrounded by you folks.
Imajs Premium Member over 14 years ago
Health care should be like groceries. The price on the shelf is what you pay. Basic visit: $100. NOT because you have Medicare totally free, union member-your co-pay is $5, small business employee-co-pay $20. Stop with the three card monte mentality. There is nothing government does that it does well. Time to grow up and take care of ourselves and stop waiting for Uncle Sam to parent us. Honesty is the best policy even if we don’t want to hear it!
4uk4ata over 14 years ago
@lmajs: The doctors get $100, well enough. Yet how exactly you pay for that is the issue. Medicare isn’t free, per se: you have paid for it as you worked, and you pay (less) after you retire. You have paid the $100, bleeep it, so get in and see the doc. You are with a union? You paid the fees there.
No system, or service is “free.” Not the Canadian, not the British one, not the Dutch one, not the US one, whatever form it takes. You pay one way or another - whether in cash from your pocket, as deductions from your pay, taxes, or any other way. The question is how it can be more efficiently run, and how the costs can be better managed. You call it three-card monte, but it’s more management than gambling.
You say “there’s nothing government does that it does well.” Well, I’ve been taught to beware speaking in absolutes, so I’ll paraphrase it “Government is seldom better.” Note that “seldom,” though. Medicare, for example, has much lower administrative costs than nearly ANY of its competitors, and afaik all its direct competitors. Yes, it is more effective, dollar for dollar. If there was better competition, probably its competitors would get their game on and optimize their own services. I would be glad if that happened, but it’s not happening now. Sometimes the free market dogma is just that - dogma. The US, in 2007, paid over 7000 USD for the healthcare of every citizen, insured or no. NO other major western country - not France, not Germany, not the UK, not even Sweden - paid anything remotely close, and all indicators show they have healthcare comparable, and in some areas better, than what Americans have. People Most of these countries paid around HALF the amount Americans did, or less. I’ve heard plenty of horror stories about the British healthcare, but I’ve heard plenty about the US one too - and the cost per person of the British one is around 40% of the American one.
davesmithsit over 14 years ago
Hey bulltwink guess who the gubmint is ,any one who pays taxes . not some nameless faceless entity with deep poccets. If I want to spend my money on an insurance policy that fits me its nobody elses buisiness but mine and it should stay that way. You are not entiteled to my money no matter how much you think you are. The guv.s policy of one size fits all is stupid and should NEVER be adopted.
Oh yah no time no rhyme no tempo. If you cant do it dont try it makes you look lame.
d_legendary1 over 14 years ago
Compared to Europe and any other industrialized nation we pay the least amount of individual taxes, yet the cons want everyone to believe that we need more tax breaks. This is why government jobs are scarce and why there are long lines at the DMV and such.
But hey, government is bad. We need to do away with it.
And Davesmithsh*t is an idiot.
d_legendary1 over 14 years ago
Might as well start fresh again. And this time start with single payer this time!