TTM, you need to stop with the “But Bush” comments. Never, in the history of this country, has one group or another used a prior administration as a foil for so long. If Bush did so much damage, and your president was so amazing, 5-1/2 years is more than enough time to undo whatever ‘damage’ was done by his predecessor. However, to the point you are trying to make, our influence was perfectly intact thanks to Bush. It’s HIS credibility that took a hit. No, instead of it being an individual’s credibility that is hit, it’s Obama and his ilk who have damaged the influence of the country, as everyone knows Obama’s put the “stick” in the closet to gather dust and waste away.
Time magazine recently published the results of an international poll asking which country was the greatest threat to world peace. The US came in first, by a large margin.
We can continue to tell ourselves how wonderful we are, and how strong our military is, but we have demonstrated time and again a hair-trigger policy to go to war without reason and to mess with sovereign nations’ internal affairs. Remember Grenada? And what did we gain by our influence in Iran, or by supporting Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Ladin? How well did we do for the citizens of Chile and Nicaragua?
I’d say this started long before Mr. Kerry took over for Ms. Clinton. I’d say this started long before Mr. Obama took office.
I recommend a reading of “The Ugly American”, written in 1958 by two members who quit the State Department because of their intolerance for how willingly and how frequently the department botched its mission. Those same problems are still there today. The details will infuriate you.
I am not a big fan of Mr. Obama’s foreign policy. I will give him props for getting us (sort of) out of Iraq. I wish we would leave Afghanistan today. And I’m glad we didn’t rush to war in Syria and Iran (can you say “Quagmire”?), which would have almost certainly happened if Mr. McCain or Mr. Romney had been elected. That said, there have been some major blockbuster policy errors in many previous administrations, and while some of you posters won’t blame them (merely because they no longer hold office), history already has.
I believe Time Magazine was publishing the results of a poll. Not taking it. Granted that Time Magazine is one of the Left’s many media lickspittles, which makes it as reliable as Fox News. But that doesn’t mean everything they publish is a self serving lie.
TTM, c’mon. You are resorting to personal attacks to try to make your point. When you use things like “CONservatives” and “reDUMBlicans” it makes you sound unserious. I’ve seen you make perfectly sound and logical arguments that don’t involve this kind of base-level comments.That being said, your opinion is that the changes the Democratic party is trying to make is “progress.” Early in his tenure, Obama enjoyed a very strong majority in Congress. I’m not even going to use the “supermajority” argument because there is merit to say that it was short lived. But, it was long-lived enough to ramrod the PPACA through the system without a single Republican vote. Now, this argument I’m making is not related to the PPACA, rather that your assertion is false that it was the Democrats who are coming up with all the good ideas, and the Republicans are doing nothing but stop them. Your argument is built on the same argument Obama used when he was trying to move on from the argument about the PPACA: We’ve won, so shut up. In a democracy, it doesn’t work like that, and you know that. I will agree that some of the statements and attitudes that are coming out of the starboard side of the aisle are petty and vindictive, but I would argue that those opinions are not entirely unwarranted, given the way Obama has treated them. Obama has acted more like a Patriarch instead of a President, insomuch as him telling the Conservatives that they’ve lost, the discussion is over, and let me do what I want… suck it. If you and I disagreed about something, and I told that to you to your face in front of hundreds of other people, how would you feel about it? You’d get mad about it, because discussions don’t work like that if you feel strongly about something. I’d probably get off light if you just flipped me off, and you would have every right to punch me in my suck.Now, I will give you another scenario. If you and your wife have a disagreement over buying a new car, and her car choice would force you into bankruptcy (even though it’s a really nice car!), how would you handle that? If she said, “I have the checkbook, shut up about it already,” would you just roll over and play dead on it? Of course not! Don’t be so dishonest with yourself. So if you wouldn’t do it, why do you expect the Republicans to do it, when they see something that they feel is going to harm the country? They are entitled to their opinions, and they are allowed to act on those opinions within the scope of their authority. That is exactly what they have done. This, “Keep him to a one-term President,” was petty and vindictive and not at all productive. But their disgruntled status is perfectly justified when taken in the context that they were just told to “shut up, we won.”As to Clinton, I do not recall President Bush complaining about Clinton’s management of the economy for 5-1/2 years after he took office. In fact, I don’t recall President Bush complaining at all about Clinton. He took ownership of the country, for better or worse. Now, we may have griped and moaned about Clinton’s personal behavior, but not about how his performance affected Bush.And to your point on waging war and diplomacy, it’s not that we shouldn’t try diplomacy. It’s that we have effectively sucked the air out of the military cutbacks, and we have advertised to the world that we are effectively not willing to engage anyone on a military level right now. That takes the bite out of your bark.
it’ continues to amaze that people will only ‘see’ the facts that they ‘want’ to ‘see’ and only believe what they want to believe. both sides of an issue continue to insist that the other is totally wrong and that they are totally right. both sides dig their heads deeper into the sand and continue to act like little children – calling each other names and insisting that they are mature and intelligent and so knowledgeable and the other side ‘not’ – yet again people will only ‘see’ the facts that they ‘want’ to ‘see’ and only believe what they want to believe and God help us all if someone should actually admit that the truth of the matter is none of us from the top to the bottom has enough knowledge and facts along with understanding to ‘solve’ the problems and clean up the mess of the world, but we sure like to think we do. ignorance is always shown by those who constantly blame others for the problems that surround them, take no responsibility for their own personal actions and offer no solution but emotional attacks on the character and decisions that were made by those they disagree with. what a silly game of ‘tag’ we all play – “i didn’t do it” – “it’s not my fault” – and on and on and on it goes and where it stops?
I am conservative and hardly hold up Bush as an icon as you seem to think. Here’s a reality check for you. I traveled China 2003 to 2012 and my Chinese friends thought very highly of Bush. They view Obama as weak. In a Muslim section of Xi’an there were souvenir playing cards of Hussein, Mao and Obama. I guess you heard recently they hid the Obamao t-shirts so Mrs. O wouldn’t see them.
Dave Ferro about 10 years ago
“Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of a hat!”
Wraithkin about 10 years ago
TTM, you need to stop with the “But Bush” comments. Never, in the history of this country, has one group or another used a prior administration as a foil for so long. If Bush did so much damage, and your president was so amazing, 5-1/2 years is more than enough time to undo whatever ‘damage’ was done by his predecessor. However, to the point you are trying to make, our influence was perfectly intact thanks to Bush. It’s HIS credibility that took a hit. No, instead of it being an individual’s credibility that is hit, it’s Obama and his ilk who have damaged the influence of the country, as everyone knows Obama’s put the “stick” in the closet to gather dust and waste away.
woodwork about 10 years ago
hasn’t anybody figured out yet that human beings are justplain INCAPABLE of governing ourselves?
I Play One On TV about 10 years ago
Time magazine recently published the results of an international poll asking which country was the greatest threat to world peace. The US came in first, by a large margin.
We can continue to tell ourselves how wonderful we are, and how strong our military is, but we have demonstrated time and again a hair-trigger policy to go to war without reason and to mess with sovereign nations’ internal affairs. Remember Grenada? And what did we gain by our influence in Iran, or by supporting Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Ladin? How well did we do for the citizens of Chile and Nicaragua?
I’d say this started long before Mr. Kerry took over for Ms. Clinton. I’d say this started long before Mr. Obama took office.
I recommend a reading of “The Ugly American”, written in 1958 by two members who quit the State Department because of their intolerance for how willingly and how frequently the department botched its mission. Those same problems are still there today. The details will infuriate you.
I am not a big fan of Mr. Obama’s foreign policy. I will give him props for getting us (sort of) out of Iraq. I wish we would leave Afghanistan today. And I’m glad we didn’t rush to war in Syria and Iran (can you say “Quagmire”?), which would have almost certainly happened if Mr. McCain or Mr. Romney had been elected. That said, there have been some major blockbuster policy errors in many previous administrations, and while some of you posters won’t blame them (merely because they no longer hold office), history already has.
warjoski Premium Member about 10 years ago
I believe Time Magazine was publishing the results of a poll. Not taking it. Granted that Time Magazine is one of the Left’s many media lickspittles, which makes it as reliable as Fox News. But that doesn’t mean everything they publish is a self serving lie.
Wraithkin about 10 years ago
TTM, c’mon. You are resorting to personal attacks to try to make your point. When you use things like “CONservatives” and “reDUMBlicans” it makes you sound unserious. I’ve seen you make perfectly sound and logical arguments that don’t involve this kind of base-level comments.That being said, your opinion is that the changes the Democratic party is trying to make is “progress.” Early in his tenure, Obama enjoyed a very strong majority in Congress. I’m not even going to use the “supermajority” argument because there is merit to say that it was short lived. But, it was long-lived enough to ramrod the PPACA through the system without a single Republican vote. Now, this argument I’m making is not related to the PPACA, rather that your assertion is false that it was the Democrats who are coming up with all the good ideas, and the Republicans are doing nothing but stop them. Your argument is built on the same argument Obama used when he was trying to move on from the argument about the PPACA: We’ve won, so shut up. In a democracy, it doesn’t work like that, and you know that. I will agree that some of the statements and attitudes that are coming out of the starboard side of the aisle are petty and vindictive, but I would argue that those opinions are not entirely unwarranted, given the way Obama has treated them. Obama has acted more like a Patriarch instead of a President, insomuch as him telling the Conservatives that they’ve lost, the discussion is over, and let me do what I want… suck it. If you and I disagreed about something, and I told that to you to your face in front of hundreds of other people, how would you feel about it? You’d get mad about it, because discussions don’t work like that if you feel strongly about something. I’d probably get off light if you just flipped me off, and you would have every right to punch me in my suck.Now, I will give you another scenario. If you and your wife have a disagreement over buying a new car, and her car choice would force you into bankruptcy (even though it’s a really nice car!), how would you handle that? If she said, “I have the checkbook, shut up about it already,” would you just roll over and play dead on it? Of course not! Don’t be so dishonest with yourself. So if you wouldn’t do it, why do you expect the Republicans to do it, when they see something that they feel is going to harm the country? They are entitled to their opinions, and they are allowed to act on those opinions within the scope of their authority. That is exactly what they have done. This, “Keep him to a one-term President,” was petty and vindictive and not at all productive. But their disgruntled status is perfectly justified when taken in the context that they were just told to “shut up, we won.”As to Clinton, I do not recall President Bush complaining about Clinton’s management of the economy for 5-1/2 years after he took office. In fact, I don’t recall President Bush complaining at all about Clinton. He took ownership of the country, for better or worse. Now, we may have griped and moaned about Clinton’s personal behavior, but not about how his performance affected Bush.And to your point on waging war and diplomacy, it’s not that we shouldn’t try diplomacy. It’s that we have effectively sucked the air out of the military cutbacks, and we have advertised to the world that we are effectively not willing to engage anyone on a military level right now. That takes the bite out of your bark.
Saddenedby Premium Member about 10 years ago
it’ continues to amaze that people will only ‘see’ the facts that they ‘want’ to ‘see’ and only believe what they want to believe. both sides of an issue continue to insist that the other is totally wrong and that they are totally right. both sides dig their heads deeper into the sand and continue to act like little children – calling each other names and insisting that they are mature and intelligent and so knowledgeable and the other side ‘not’ – yet again people will only ‘see’ the facts that they ‘want’ to ‘see’ and only believe what they want to believe and God help us all if someone should actually admit that the truth of the matter is none of us from the top to the bottom has enough knowledge and facts along with understanding to ‘solve’ the problems and clean up the mess of the world, but we sure like to think we do. ignorance is always shown by those who constantly blame others for the problems that surround them, take no responsibility for their own personal actions and offer no solution but emotional attacks on the character and decisions that were made by those they disagree with. what a silly game of ‘tag’ we all play – “i didn’t do it” – “it’s not my fault” – and on and on and on it goes and where it stops?
timgilley about 10 years ago
I am conservative and hardly hold up Bush as an icon as you seem to think. Here’s a reality check for you. I traveled China 2003 to 2012 and my Chinese friends thought very highly of Bush. They view Obama as weak. In a Muslim section of Xi’an there were souvenir playing cards of Hussein, Mao and Obama. I guess you heard recently they hid the Obamao t-shirts so Mrs. O wouldn’t see them.