Besides stupid, Lisa obviously never heard of that little thing called “Patriot Act”, or “Military Commissions Act”, among other right-wing efforts to take away our freedoms over the last 35 years, with of course, "The acting President’ and his wonkies giving the movement a great kickoff.
dtroutma, you exonerate the president by claiming that these are not his policies alone. You forget that Mr. Obama promised all sorts of change, and then upheld the status quo—all the while whining that his failures are anyone’s fault but his own. Why can’t you see that the current president sold you a lie? You bought a pig in a poke, and even now that it is painfully obvious that the bag held a cat instead of a hog, you continue to blame everyone else but the man who is in charge. The people who should be shouting the loudest for impeachment should be those that were hoodwinked; instead, they close their eyes to reality and keep chanting the failed mantra of hope and change. Your cause is hopeless as long as you continue to cling to your faith in Barrack Hussein Obama.
And why are you squawking about impeaching a President who is simply using policies that the government already had in place when he entered office, and not the President who put those policies in place in the first instance? Why now? And under what pretext, exactly?
“Blaming Bush is the final refuge of a mind that’s run out of ideas.”Can you refute anything she said, or are you just trying to mitigate a legitimate post by using the “blame Bush” meme?
To answer those who argue that we didn’t complain about it years ago, I have my personal observation. Take it for what it’s worth.In 2001 and 2002, when 9/11 was still a fresh wound for us, there was an argument that we should have seen all that was going on, but failed to do so. Hence the premise for the Patriot Act. We had faith that while it was an intrusion into our lives, the government wouldn’t abuse it and wield it as a cudgel against its citizenry. And while we were quietly concerned, this cudgelry (I made that up) was not executed. Liberals and Conservatives alike were treated evenly and no-one in the government targeted a specific group. In fact, they took great pains to not target the obvious group (that being young-adult middle-east males) that is frequently the source of terrorist attacks. How many times did we hear complaints about TSA molesting Grandma at the airport? So it was attempted to be even-handed and unobtrusive, at least as much as possible.But then BHO took over office. The PPACA coerces/forces people to buy a product they don’t want. And as recently as 2010, he started using the government to cudgel his opponents. He isolated groups. His legal counsel advised it was okay to use drones against US Citizens without a trial, even on US Soil (as long as they were armed, right? Right… ). The tide of the government was switching from a passive, unobtrusive, and sometimes woefully inept (Yes, Bush Jr. was sometimes a dumbass, but his heart was in the right spot) and it was transitioning to capricious, mean-spirited, and Chicago-thug politics. When the author of the Patriot Act says the president has gone too far, and outside the scope of the Act, clearly something is amiss. Faith in the government has evaporated. Ever since the PPACA was ramrodded through Congress, people have lost trust in the governing bodies at the federal level. And now that we have testimony indicating the IRS was targeting a specific group of people, it adds to that worry. The Drone statement adds worry. Because now we have an apparatus in place that can monitor everything you are doing (NSA w/ the Patriot Act), a system that monitors your every financial action (the IRS, and who’s to say they can’t manipulate that data?), and now an authorization to say they can drone strike US Citizens on US Soil as long as they are armed? It’s no wonder people don’t trust government any more. And it’s all changed course in the last 4 years, maybe even the last 3. And what’s the only thing that’s significantly different in the last 3-4 years? You guessed it: BHO. The very guy who said he would pull back the curtain and be the most transparent administration is turning out to be a flat-out liar. So no, we aren’t going to blame Bush for the Patriot Act, because the ideology and implementation/execution of it was significantly different than our current WH resident.
I have decried the Patriot act as Unpatriotic since it’s inception. I didn’t like it under Bush and I don’t like it now. It’s a bad law that was rammed through based on the irrational fears of a majority of US citizens (Reps and Dems).
Republicans liked it under Bush because they trusted him and many Democrats hated it. Now Democrats like it under Obama because they trust him and many Republicans hate it.
I don’t trust either group to be looking out for ordinary citizens and this just goes to reaffirm Benjamin Franklin’s adage “If you are willing to give up a little freedom for a little security, you deserve neither freedom nor security”.
The terrorists got lucky – They couldn’t take our freedoms away with a few planes flown into buildings. I don’t think they counted on it but they achieved their objective anyway by convincing the American people to voluntarily give up their liberites.
BTW – Obama has had the Presidency for more then 5 years. Stop blaming Bush you liberal dufuses. I didn’t like him either but at some point the President has to take responsiblility for his own actions. I didn’t like all of Clinton’s policies but you don’t see me still bitching about him.
The issue illustrated here is asset seizures by all levels of law enforcement. These started under Clinton and have accelerated since under Obama. It allows authorities to seize money and property without due process and use the asset to bolster their budget. It is totally unconstitutional but has been upheld by the supremes, which just goes to show there are no branches of government that give a hoot for basic economic rights.
You’re missing the point. Whatever his skin color, he’s furthering the deterioration of our rights. Yes the Right started the ball rolling. But Yes, the Left is kicking it along to make sure it keeps rolling.
Your entire argument is like a guy arguing with his wife about who left the stove on while their house is burning down around them. Is the assignment of blame so important to you that you’re willing to burn to death?
Hmm, I’ve always stated how much I hate the Patriot Act, used by “W” OR Obama! But “righties” just have to forget and forgive anything Cheney and W did. Which, they also totally ignore all the illegal activity around Iran/Contra, Poindexter, North, et al who were found guilty of criminal acts, but most were pardoned by GHW. That was a far worse abuse of the Constitution and existing law at the time, and they WOULD also be violations under the “Patriot Act”.
While Obama has been more successful than “W” ever was in bringing down terrorists, like well,bin Laden, I still don’t like all the process used, or misused to do so.
It’s amazing the “slams” that repubtards throw at liberals and Obama, while ignoring their worship of Reagan, GHW, and “W”, seemingly thinking they use a urinal to dispose of their “holy water”.
Dtroutma almost 11 years ago
Besides stupid, Lisa obviously never heard of that little thing called “Patriot Act”, or “Military Commissions Act”, among other right-wing efforts to take away our freedoms over the last 35 years, with of course, "The acting President’ and his wonkies giving the movement a great kickoff.
hanmari almost 11 years ago
dtroutma, you exonerate the president by claiming that these are not his policies alone. You forget that Mr. Obama promised all sorts of change, and then upheld the status quo—all the while whining that his failures are anyone’s fault but his own. Why can’t you see that the current president sold you a lie? You bought a pig in a poke, and even now that it is painfully obvious that the bag held a cat instead of a hog, you continue to blame everyone else but the man who is in charge. The people who should be shouting the loudest for impeachment should be those that were hoodwinked; instead, they close their eyes to reality and keep chanting the failed mantra of hope and change. Your cause is hopeless as long as you continue to cling to your faith in Barrack Hussein Obama.
lbatik almost 11 years ago
And why are you squawking about impeaching a President who is simply using policies that the government already had in place when he entered office, and not the President who put those policies in place in the first instance? Why now? And under what pretext, exactly?
carandken almost 11 years ago
Wow, I think some people should switch to decaf.
Jason Allen almost 11 years ago
“Blaming Bush is the final refuge of a mind that’s run out of ideas.”Can you refute anything she said, or are you just trying to mitigate a legitimate post by using the “blame Bush” meme?
Wraithkin almost 11 years ago
To answer those who argue that we didn’t complain about it years ago, I have my personal observation. Take it for what it’s worth.In 2001 and 2002, when 9/11 was still a fresh wound for us, there was an argument that we should have seen all that was going on, but failed to do so. Hence the premise for the Patriot Act. We had faith that while it was an intrusion into our lives, the government wouldn’t abuse it and wield it as a cudgel against its citizenry. And while we were quietly concerned, this cudgelry (I made that up) was not executed. Liberals and Conservatives alike were treated evenly and no-one in the government targeted a specific group. In fact, they took great pains to not target the obvious group (that being young-adult middle-east males) that is frequently the source of terrorist attacks. How many times did we hear complaints about TSA molesting Grandma at the airport? So it was attempted to be even-handed and unobtrusive, at least as much as possible.But then BHO took over office. The PPACA coerces/forces people to buy a product they don’t want. And as recently as 2010, he started using the government to cudgel his opponents. He isolated groups. His legal counsel advised it was okay to use drones against US Citizens without a trial, even on US Soil (as long as they were armed, right? Right… ). The tide of the government was switching from a passive, unobtrusive, and sometimes woefully inept (Yes, Bush Jr. was sometimes a dumbass, but his heart was in the right spot) and it was transitioning to capricious, mean-spirited, and Chicago-thug politics. When the author of the Patriot Act says the president has gone too far, and outside the scope of the Act, clearly something is amiss. Faith in the government has evaporated. Ever since the PPACA was ramrodded through Congress, people have lost trust in the governing bodies at the federal level. And now that we have testimony indicating the IRS was targeting a specific group of people, it adds to that worry. The Drone statement adds worry. Because now we have an apparatus in place that can monitor everything you are doing (NSA w/ the Patriot Act), a system that monitors your every financial action (the IRS, and who’s to say they can’t manipulate that data?), and now an authorization to say they can drone strike US Citizens on US Soil as long as they are armed? It’s no wonder people don’t trust government any more. And it’s all changed course in the last 4 years, maybe even the last 3. And what’s the only thing that’s significantly different in the last 3-4 years? You guessed it: BHO. The very guy who said he would pull back the curtain and be the most transparent administration is turning out to be a flat-out liar. So no, we aren’t going to blame Bush for the Patriot Act, because the ideology and implementation/execution of it was significantly different than our current WH resident.
Mephistopheles almost 11 years ago
I have decried the Patriot act as Unpatriotic since it’s inception. I didn’t like it under Bush and I don’t like it now. It’s a bad law that was rammed through based on the irrational fears of a majority of US citizens (Reps and Dems).
Republicans liked it under Bush because they trusted him and many Democrats hated it. Now Democrats like it under Obama because they trust him and many Republicans hate it.
I don’t trust either group to be looking out for ordinary citizens and this just goes to reaffirm Benjamin Franklin’s adage “If you are willing to give up a little freedom for a little security, you deserve neither freedom nor security”.
The terrorists got lucky – They couldn’t take our freedoms away with a few planes flown into buildings. I don’t think they counted on it but they achieved their objective anyway by convincing the American people to voluntarily give up their liberites.
BTW – Obama has had the Presidency for more then 5 years. Stop blaming Bush you liberal dufuses. I didn’t like him either but at some point the President has to take responsiblility for his own actions. I didn’t like all of Clinton’s policies but you don’t see me still bitching about him.
Grow up
rixtex almost 11 years ago
The issue illustrated here is asset seizures by all levels of law enforcement. These started under Clinton and have accelerated since under Obama. It allows authorities to seize money and property without due process and use the asset to bolster their budget. It is totally unconstitutional but has been upheld by the supremes, which just goes to show there are no branches of government that give a hoot for basic economic rights.
warjoski Premium Member almost 11 years ago
You’re missing the point. Whatever his skin color, he’s furthering the deterioration of our rights. Yes the Right started the ball rolling. But Yes, the Left is kicking it along to make sure it keeps rolling.
Your entire argument is like a guy arguing with his wife about who left the stove on while their house is burning down around them. Is the assignment of blame so important to you that you’re willing to burn to death?
Dtroutma almost 11 years ago
Hmm, I’ve always stated how much I hate the Patriot Act, used by “W” OR Obama! But “righties” just have to forget and forgive anything Cheney and W did. Which, they also totally ignore all the illegal activity around Iran/Contra, Poindexter, North, et al who were found guilty of criminal acts, but most were pardoned by GHW. That was a far worse abuse of the Constitution and existing law at the time, and they WOULD also be violations under the “Patriot Act”.
While Obama has been more successful than “W” ever was in bringing down terrorists, like well,bin Laden, I still don’t like all the process used, or misused to do so.
It’s amazing the “slams” that repubtards throw at liberals and Obama, while ignoring their worship of Reagan, GHW, and “W”, seemingly thinking they use a urinal to dispose of their “holy water”.