Tom Toles for November 08, 2009

Oh, good, the Bigot Barn is open for business! “Whining-crying-foot-stomping-lip-pooching homos”, huh? Back under your rock, Scott.

sjc14850, I quit reading scott’s posts some time ago and might suggest the same. Regarding the cartoon, however, marriage has an interesting and varied history. Taken on a world-wide, mult-religious level, it has only been one-man-one-woman at a relatively limited level. In the mid-east, of course, you can still find religiously sanctioned polygamy. In Europe, marriage once belonged to the realm of the nobility. The poor practiced common law marriage – that is, they simply began living together. In our own country, civil and common law marriage have been part of our fabric from the very beginning. Living together isn’t that much different. In other cultures - specifically Native American – gays were accorded a special status (I believe they were called “two souls”). Not being gay, I’m not sure I really get why the difference between civil unions and marriage is so important to so many. They both grant the same rights, and if I were gay, I’d start there and let society’s acceptance develop over time. By the way, I know a lot of Europeans, and oddly enough, they’re all married.

sjc14850 - Bigot Barn” - Good one.

PS Thing is like-sex attraction has been around a LOT longer than the preceived philosophy scott thinks he has. The same will be when scott is a forgotten lump of clay. I do believe some people can’t phathom why the Almighty works the way he does and tries to remold him in to something they deem appropriate, even to the point of deciding what the Almighty wants. Come Judgement Day we’re All going to be in for a surprise.

Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

I thank God that the prophets are told to go and preach. Mark 16:15

Given that we are supposed to have separation of church and state (I know there is a lot of argument about what the 1st amendment really means, but just suppose) why don’t we have the government get out of the business of marriage all together. Let’s just say that 2 people (or more) sign a contract and become “partners” with all the legal rights and benefits of husband/wife. Surely the religious can’t argue with that. Let marriage be a religion thing. If the religion is against a certain marriage (gay, polygamy, etc) then they don’t have to marry them. Everybody gets along.

very funny cartoon!

cdward and kensburg, i agree completely with your comments, including the part about skipping the Bigot Barn’s diatribes…

yep, get those priorities in order

Agree completely, Kensburg.

It’ll never happen, but it’s the ideal solution.

Comyics, try to remember that if you have a broken leg, it doesn’t mean others need your crutch.

Well said, cdward, kensurg – not often we all agree! A major (and well-known) anthropological study found, when looking comprehensively across 847 human cultures, that three-quarters allowed polygamy (about one third of those – a quarter of the total – actually practiced it regularly and actively), one quarter limited marriage to monogamy, and a small but notable number (about 1%) allowed polyandry (multiple husbands). Human beings are variable critters.

Anthony2816, Id let you use both of my crutches if my leg was hurt, and it’d help you with a stubbed toe :).

At least for now.

Science fiction author Robert Heinlein described the social and economic safety net provided by different types of multi-partner marriage in a harsh environment. “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress”. He favored line marriage as providing the most loving environment and greatest stability for children. Such a marriage, with continuing introduction of younger generation partners, would be virtually immortal.

Of course, Rush, Beck, and some of our other super-egos only want permission to marry themselves, or maybe their mirrors?

A great cartoon.

As I have said before, if you hate gays, well that’s your belief, but don’t use the Bible to justify or support hate.

The Biblle is not “The Word Of God!” It is the word of many different people saying many different things –many of which completely contradict each other.

The Bible was written over a thousand years by hundreds of different people, writting for their times and their tribes.

The Bible is hard to read, and hard to understand – it takes work, still read it if you are going to use it, don’t just take someones word for what it says.

fbrewer, that’s one of my favorite novels. But I think Heinlein was more than a little naïve about real people. He pushed for polyamory long before anyone started using that word, but somehow I doubt the “line marriage” would really work all that well. It also has some weird overtones of incest (as does much of his work) that I find deeply disturbing.

The man in the cartoon is “the man”. He keeps the boot heel on the back of my neck. That is his job.

Does anyone honestly believe, regardless of one’s opinion of Christianity, that the God described in the Bible is more concerned with the distribution of westernized medicine than moral precepts related to sexual behavior?

Thanks, Comyics, but analogy-wise, I’m in perfect health and not in need of any sort of crutch. I’m sure it’ll do you a lot more good than me.

Well, no matter what the type of marraiage, I just hope it’s kicked-off with a bugle call. Hey, it started all the other wars…

@motivemagus - Heinlein was very much the Libertarian in his worldview, and in his fiction he was able to posit the necessary conditions for Libertarian principles to work as we all wish they would. Fundamental good will and enlightened self-interest being a couple of the essential conditions. Certainly humans seem able to construct any conceivable social structure that best promotes survival in challenging conditions.

One of the most chilling, yet intriguing, books I’ve ever read is Frank Herbert’s “Hellstrom’s Hive”. He takes social engineering about as far as it could go.

You young pups weren’t alive when divorce was illegal or allowed only in case of adultery. When you speak of “gummit” involvement, you need to remember that it was the judiciary which was dragged into the business of marriage [divorce] because of the necessity to resolve issues under contract law. But then, you would have to blame yourselves for the mess you have made of your marriages [and divorces] rather than the “gummit!”

Only when you outlaw hetereo-marriage can you condemn! Let’s do that! Maybe the gay community will do a better job of marriage than we whom you regard as more pure.! Just don’t blame the “gummit!” Signed, Rev. Dr. Bob

Point is: It is sad when government can’t offer citizens anything (jobs, health-care, infrastructure) except a mechanism for discrimination against each other.

Thanks Tom, Ignore Scott!