If I reach my debt limit, I stop using my credit cards, and cut back on all but absolute necessities. I don’t arbitrarily cut everything by a given percentage, only those that are not essential to roof over my head and food, everything else is place on hold while I pay down my debt to the point I have wiggle room. Why can’t government do the same?
Because, Simon, EVERYBODY in America has been cutting back in one way or another for the last five years except the government…how does that even make sense? If the economy is not growing, there is no justification at all for the government to grow!If Congress does not raise the debt limit, cuts are forced to happen, which is what Americans overwhelmingly want according to any standard available. The loan default argument is a scare tactic, nothing more.
The Debt Ceiling has more to do with than just some spending. Yes, the Ceiling is sort of a artificial construct (but then so is the rest of the economy), but it is built into our ability to buy and lend money. If the Ceiling is not raised, foreign investors are going to go elsewhere and we won’t have ANY money in the govt to spend, give away, or for Tea Party Hypocrites to steal from. Starve the Govt if you want, but I say double-dipping into another Depression is a bad idea.
Government debt is the foundation of our fractional reserve monetary system. It provides the guarantee and stability for the enormous amounts of money created out of thin air by the private banking sector. It has to keep up with the debt money created by private banks, or the system collapses.It is a distraction, and makes no real sense to be arguing about government spending/ overspending, when the system requires the overspending to function.It’s like setting up a very strict grading on the curve system, and then debating how to keep any kids from flunking. A strict grading on the curve system REQUIRES flunking a percentage of the kids.
REMEMBER, IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY! If you cut back spending, you cut back revenue, and things get worse. We have too many people with too much money and too many people with too little. The rich need to step up and face their responsibility to society.
Folks like Vortex are always so afraid that somebody somewhere is taking advantage of them, getting a free ride on them. Yet the nation has racked up vast debts for decades on the world’s most expensive military (yes, among other things), and now when the bill comes due, they say that the freeloaders are taking THEIR money, oh, so unfairly. The people I know, and the comments I read in places like this from people who think that taxes should go up to meet our obligations, all seem to class themselves in that portion of the population who ought to be paying more. -- To me it is the one’s who don’t want to pay more, when they can afford it, who are the freeloaders. It’s the ones who have no sense of obligation for welfare of others who are the ones without “personal responsibility.” - And I wonder Vortex has suffered that leaves him with these attitudes. Though I agree with him in this, the incentives have to be right. Better to give work than a dole, better to give a hand up than a handout. But too many of us suffer from the Puritan disease of thinking that, in this world, reward naturally flows to the meritorious, that those who are bad off probably deserve to be there, or even that the good things in life should only be enjoyed by the smart or the strong.
In a certain old book we are told not to take pride in our accomplishments or think that worldly success is the result of our merit, or that worldly failure is the result of our demerit. “I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.”For this reason we ought not overmuch to blame or punish failure, or reward or praise success. And that more is expected from those with much, and small things are worthy of praise from those who have little. Yet some folks seem bent on rewarding winners and punishing losers, and think that this is good policy, rather than harnessing winners to aid losers, and to ensure that all have a place at the table.
“It’s the heart afraid of breaking that never learns to dance; it’s the dream afraid of waking that never takes the chance; it’s the one who won’t be taken who cannot seem to give; and the soul afraid of dying that never learns to live.” -————————————————————————————————————- Always one of my favorite lyrics. The third line seems so apropos to so many conservative commentators. There is some truth to the old joke that a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged. So many people who grow passionate denouncing freeloaders, and are so afraid of being “taken”, have suffered in their personal experience from those who would “game” every system for their personal advantage, or who are always trying to mooch off the folks around them. This is where their bitterness and suspicion comes from. I pity them. And I wish I wasn’t so much like that myself. -—————- I don’t like thinking ill of anybody, but where is the generosity of spirit in these people? I would rather be “taken” occasionally than live in constant state of suspicion and distrust of my fellow man generally. Though it is hard to sustain much faith in humanity when one reads some of the comments in fora like this.
And when government spending doesn’t cure the problem, Doughfoot? Everyone should at least be made aware that, yes, Keynesian economics, the economics by which our modern western governments operate, dictates printing money by government fiat in order for the government to spend it. It has a few arguable benefits, but it, by definition, weakens the currency that is printed, and thus cannot go on indefinitely. Those of us on the right feel like it has gone on long enough and other changes need to be made to correct the problems of cashflow!It is the individual’s job to show compassion to his fellow man. It is the government’s job to protect our rights, liberties, and property.
Wow, Michael, you are the one calling me stupid? You actually think banks loan money that they have in some kind of “reserve”? When’s the last time they did that?
Car loans and mortgages do create money in the form of commercial bank money. That is, they expand the money supply. “Print money” is the general phrase for money that has no intrinsic value. I’m sure most understand this. Money is created for our mortgage loans out of “nothing” but the Federal Institutions that back them nowadays. Keynesian economics is interested in going into debt in order to “save” the economic order rather than letting free markets and human drive work things out for the long haul. Where does the debt come from? “Printing money”…i.e. expanding the money supply. Real wealth does not come from expanding the money supply!http://tinyurl.com/35k7hmt
“It is the individual’s job to show compassion to his fellow man.” Yeah, and that works out so well, doesn’t it? Because people like you think it’s up to every OTHER individual but themselves to be the compassionate ones. The Salvation Army and Catholic Charities, just to name 2, would be hard pressed to serve all their clients without government grants. We could get into the separation of church and state argument here, but these agencies are not allowed to preach to those they assist and must help everyone without questioning their faith—or at least that is how they operate in my area—and their services are more necessary to more people than ever.
LaughingBob almost 13 years ago
If I reach my debt limit, I stop using my credit cards, and cut back on all but absolute necessities. I don’t arbitrarily cut everything by a given percentage, only those that are not essential to roof over my head and food, everything else is place on hold while I pay down my debt to the point I have wiggle room. Why can’t government do the same?
Simon_Jester almost 13 years ago
What do all these people have in common?
Barack Obama
Mitch McConnell
Harry Reid.
John Boehner
Nancy Pelosi
A: They all agree that the debt ceiling should be raised first, and THEN we can negotiate on the budget.
So, why hasn’t it happened?
WarBush almost 13 years ago
^Cause the cons want more tax cuts?
HabaneroBuck almost 13 years ago
Because, Simon, EVERYBODY in America has been cutting back in one way or another for the last five years except the government…how does that even make sense? If the economy is not growing, there is no justification at all for the government to grow!If Congress does not raise the debt limit, cuts are forced to happen, which is what Americans overwhelmingly want according to any standard available. The loan default argument is a scare tactic, nothing more.
AdmNaismith almost 13 years ago
The Debt Ceiling has more to do with than just some spending. Yes, the Ceiling is sort of a artificial construct (but then so is the rest of the economy), but it is built into our ability to buy and lend money. If the Ceiling is not raised, foreign investors are going to go elsewhere and we won’t have ANY money in the govt to spend, give away, or for Tea Party Hypocrites to steal from. Starve the Govt if you want, but I say double-dipping into another Depression is a bad idea.
DamYankee22 almost 13 years ago
Re the comic: the elephant would pull the what-do-you-call-it away.
vhammon almost 13 years ago
Government debt is the foundation of our fractional reserve monetary system. It provides the guarantee and stability for the enormous amounts of money created out of thin air by the private banking sector. It has to keep up with the debt money created by private banks, or the system collapses.It is a distraction, and makes no real sense to be arguing about government spending/ overspending, when the system requires the overspending to function.It’s like setting up a very strict grading on the curve system, and then debating how to keep any kids from flunking. A strict grading on the curve system REQUIRES flunking a percentage of the kids.
Dtroutma almost 13 years ago
Boehner has slipped in a “safety net” made of tissue paper- and wetted it to boot!
keechum almost 13 years ago
REMEMBER, IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY! If you cut back spending, you cut back revenue, and things get worse. We have too many people with too much money and too many people with too little. The rich need to step up and face their responsibility to society.
Doughfoot almost 13 years ago
Folks like Vortex are always so afraid that somebody somewhere is taking advantage of them, getting a free ride on them. Yet the nation has racked up vast debts for decades on the world’s most expensive military (yes, among other things), and now when the bill comes due, they say that the freeloaders are taking THEIR money, oh, so unfairly. The people I know, and the comments I read in places like this from people who think that taxes should go up to meet our obligations, all seem to class themselves in that portion of the population who ought to be paying more. -- To me it is the one’s who don’t want to pay more, when they can afford it, who are the freeloaders. It’s the ones who have no sense of obligation for welfare of others who are the ones without “personal responsibility.” - And I wonder Vortex has suffered that leaves him with these attitudes. Though I agree with him in this, the incentives have to be right. Better to give work than a dole, better to give a hand up than a handout. But too many of us suffer from the Puritan disease of thinking that, in this world, reward naturally flows to the meritorious, that those who are bad off probably deserve to be there, or even that the good things in life should only be enjoyed by the smart or the strong.
Doughfoot almost 13 years ago
In a certain old book we are told not to take pride in our accomplishments or think that worldly success is the result of our merit, or that worldly failure is the result of our demerit. “I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.”For this reason we ought not overmuch to blame or punish failure, or reward or praise success. And that more is expected from those with much, and small things are worthy of praise from those who have little. Yet some folks seem bent on rewarding winners and punishing losers, and think that this is good policy, rather than harnessing winners to aid losers, and to ensure that all have a place at the table.
Doughfoot almost 13 years ago
“It’s the heart afraid of breaking that never learns to dance; it’s the dream afraid of waking that never takes the chance; it’s the one who won’t be taken who cannot seem to give; and the soul afraid of dying that never learns to live.” -————————————————————————————————————- Always one of my favorite lyrics. The third line seems so apropos to so many conservative commentators. There is some truth to the old joke that a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged. So many people who grow passionate denouncing freeloaders, and are so afraid of being “taken”, have suffered in their personal experience from those who would “game” every system for their personal advantage, or who are always trying to mooch off the folks around them. This is where their bitterness and suspicion comes from. I pity them. And I wish I wasn’t so much like that myself. -—————- I don’t like thinking ill of anybody, but where is the generosity of spirit in these people? I would rather be “taken” occasionally than live in constant state of suspicion and distrust of my fellow man generally. Though it is hard to sustain much faith in humanity when one reads some of the comments in fora like this.
HabaneroBuck almost 13 years ago
And when government spending doesn’t cure the problem, Doughfoot? Everyone should at least be made aware that, yes, Keynesian economics, the economics by which our modern western governments operate, dictates printing money by government fiat in order for the government to spend it. It has a few arguable benefits, but it, by definition, weakens the currency that is printed, and thus cannot go on indefinitely. Those of us on the right feel like it has gone on long enough and other changes need to be made to correct the problems of cashflow!It is the individual’s job to show compassion to his fellow man. It is the government’s job to protect our rights, liberties, and property.
HabaneroBuck almost 13 years ago
Wow, Michael, you are the one calling me stupid? You actually think banks loan money that they have in some kind of “reserve”? When’s the last time they did that?
Car loans and mortgages do create money in the form of commercial bank money. That is, they expand the money supply. “Print money” is the general phrase for money that has no intrinsic value. I’m sure most understand this. Money is created for our mortgage loans out of “nothing” but the Federal Institutions that back them nowadays. Keynesian economics is interested in going into debt in order to “save” the economic order rather than letting free markets and human drive work things out for the long haul. Where does the debt come from? “Printing money”…i.e. expanding the money supply. Real wealth does not come from expanding the money supply!http://tinyurl.com/35k7hmt
bloomfan almost 13 years ago
“It is the individual’s job to show compassion to his fellow man.” Yeah, and that works out so well, doesn’t it? Because people like you think it’s up to every OTHER individual but themselves to be the compassionate ones. The Salvation Army and Catholic Charities, just to name 2, would be hard pressed to serve all their clients without government grants. We could get into the separation of church and state argument here, but these agencies are not allowed to preach to those they assist and must help everyone without questioning their faith—or at least that is how they operate in my area—and their services are more necessary to more people than ever.