Scott, I would love to see an even bigger Democratic majority in 2010 and 2012, if only to read your reactions to it.
HQ, I think the insurance companies did themselves a bit of a disfavor with that rushed “study” that its own author - Pricewaterhousecoopers - effectively disowned. Maybe they should have sat on their rear ends and be content with getting several million subsidized new customers… but nooo, they decided to go for broke.
Trash our health-care system? The one that’s ranked 37th in the world? The one that has people dying because they can’t afford care, or financially ruined for life? God forbid!
Turning the current health-non-caring system into trash would actually improve it—if I write what it currently is this site’s Bowdler-filter would bleeeeep the words from here to bleeeeeping bleeeeep.
As I see it the Dems biggest problem (apart from the odd wanker like SnottFreeAss) is the difficulty of getting out of the mess that the Bush-idiot and his lying lot got us in to.
Harley, Harley, England does not ration healthcare. The example used on the house floor was of a lady who, when diagnosed with cancer had treatment, cancer “cured”. Then a few years later it reappeared. She and her husband asked for a new experimental drug that had not been approved. To get the drug they had to pay approximately $2,000 (equiv.)per month on their own. Try getting an experimental drug through your insurance company. Not going to happen. You won’t be able to buy it on your own either.
What annoys me no end is calling it health care. It is not in any way, shape, or form. It’s medical care.
A few months ago, it was reported that life expectancy here in the good ol’ U S of A had increased a whopping 2 1/2 months.
With all the tests, drugs, and treatments pushed at us in the last 30 or so years, you’d think our life expectancy would have increased a lot more than a mere 2 1/2 months.
Harley, It happens all the time. If you are in an accident, usually, no, but if you have a medical condition that is expensive to treat, yes, My sister-in-law with a brain tumor and no insurance for one. She died. My nephew’s kid with a tooth problem for another. Laid off, no insurance,finally got it taken care of with cash. A friend who developed Cancer several years back was turned away from 3 hospitals because he had no insurance. Finally the VA said it was caused by Agent Orange and began treatment after it was too late.
Scott, Have you ever traveled outside the U.S.? Some countries are pretty nice. I met a lady in Germany who was staying there with her family after her husband had retired from the military. Said she liked it so much better than New York.
No, scott, we’re saying that if so many other countries can deliver better healthcare to ALL their citizens at a better price, we should be able to do at least that well!
Nobody has better healthcare in the world than the United States. I don’t even care what kind of propoganda you can pull out, this whole argument is ludicrous. When it comes to emergency life-saving health care, it has been proven time and time again that the United States’ system is more successful than any other system in the world. That is to say, from the point one is diagnosed with something such as cancer to the end of one’s life, you will not get any better care anywhere in the world than the good ole US of A.
Americans don’t have longer life spans than the rest of the world because of the lifestyles and ethnic diversity of our population. That might not be popular, but it’s demonstrably true. It’s also true that we keep statistics based on infant deaths differently than other systems. On and on it goes, but whenever apples are compared to apples, the US is doing pretty well, and realistically can be called the “best in the world” without fear of contradiction.
There’s the question of quality of treatment available, and there’s the question of availability of quality treatment. They’re separate questions. The best doctors in the world using the best equipment in the world and the best medicines in the world can’t help you if you can’t afford to pay for them.
If you have insurance coverage, you’re still dependent upon some insurance company clerk approving payment for what your doctor recommends. If you DON’T have coverage, you’re screwed. A two-day stay in a hospital can wipe you out, assuming they’ll even ADMIT you without coverage.
The US is good at technology, but it’s lousy at caring. Technology is great at heroics (what I think of, probably wrongly, as DrKildareism) but it is expensive and elitist. In the US you get wonderful care if you are wealthy but the bums rush if you are not.
In other developed countries things are better for everyone. I’ve lived in England, France and the US and I know that the US is by far a worse place to get sick in than either of the others.
My Father died a year ago in England after seven years of dialysis three times a week, doctors visiting him at his home, and what I feel was excellent CARING care, all necessary drugs and all at no cost to him. The cost being shared by all tax payers comes out at at about 1/2 to 2/3 of what it costs in the US (calculated per head). There is pretty much NOTHING that comes between patient and doctor. For example the other year my daughter while passing through England from Kenya to her home in the US needed medical attention and was seen by the doctor immediately with no questions asked about eligibility (she is a dual citizen, but she sounds American).
So HabaneroBuck, scottfreitas and your weird lot, go on spouting pseudo-patriotic rubbish in your ignorance and self delusion, it may make you right-wing but doesn’t make you correct.
I like many things about the US, but sadly when (in a few years) I retire there is no way I’ll stay here. I’ll be off to the land of freedom—free at least from having to worry about health care, and of course free from the likes of HabaneroBuck, scottfreitas and their weird lot. :-)
I’m Canadian. Along with a vast majority of Canadians (usually between 75 and 80 per cent, depending upon the poll), I wouldn’t trade my health care for anything, especially not yours. I had triple bypass surgery; it was timely, and it was paid for by our collective taxes. I didn’t have to deal with insurance companies, and I certainly didn’t have to worry about going bankrupt in order to pay for the operation.
Americans may have the best doctors and hospitals in the world. You undoubtedly have the best medical researchers. BUT you do not have the best system. I hope neither of you every have a serious ailment; better to learn from argument than experience.
4uk4ata over 14 years ago
Scott, I would love to see an even bigger Democratic majority in 2010 and 2012, if only to read your reactions to it.
HQ, I think the insurance companies did themselves a bit of a disfavor with that rushed “study” that its own author - Pricewaterhousecoopers - effectively disowned. Maybe they should have sat on their rear ends and be content with getting several million subsidized new customers… but nooo, they decided to go for broke.
sjc14850 over 14 years ago
Trash our health-care system? The one that’s ranked 37th in the world? The one that has people dying because they can’t afford care, or financially ruined for life? God forbid!
Richard Howland-Bolton Premium Member over 14 years ago
Turning the current health-non-caring system into trash would actually improve it—if I write what it currently is this site’s Bowdler-filter would bleeeeep the words from here to bleeeeeping bleeeeep. As I see it the Dems biggest problem (apart from the odd wanker like SnottFreeAss) is the difficulty of getting out of the mess that the Bush-idiot and his lying lot got us in to.
cdward over 14 years ago
^That and Joe Liebermannn
Justice22 over 14 years ago
Harley, Harley, England does not ration healthcare. The example used on the house floor was of a lady who, when diagnosed with cancer had treatment, cancer “cured”. Then a few years later it reappeared. She and her husband asked for a new experimental drug that had not been approved. To get the drug they had to pay approximately $2,000 (equiv.)per month on their own. Try getting an experimental drug through your insurance company. Not going to happen. You won’t be able to buy it on your own either.
Kosher71 over 14 years ago
Tis the season .
Dmajor over 14 years ago
Oh, it’s a coffin! For a minute I thought it was the same refrigerator that Indiana Jones used.
Magnaut over 14 years ago
if at first you don’t succeed lower your standards
kennethcwarren64 over 14 years ago
Scott: Hi, don’t forget about Iceland and Denmark.
annamargaret1866 over 14 years ago
What annoys me no end is calling it health care. It is not in any way, shape, or form. It’s medical care.
A few months ago, it was reported that life expectancy here in the good ol’ U S of A had increased a whopping 2 1/2 months.
With all the tests, drugs, and treatments pushed at us in the last 30 or so years, you’d think our life expectancy would have increased a lot more than a mere 2 1/2 months.
And then there’s the whole quality of life issue.
Justice22 over 14 years ago
Harley, It happens all the time. If you are in an accident, usually, no, but if you have a medical condition that is expensive to treat, yes, My sister-in-law with a brain tumor and no insurance for one. She died. My nephew’s kid with a tooth problem for another. Laid off, no insurance,finally got it taken care of with cash. A friend who developed Cancer several years back was turned away from 3 hospitals because he had no insurance. Finally the VA said it was caused by Agent Orange and began treatment after it was too late.
Justice22 over 14 years ago
Scott, Have you ever traveled outside the U.S.? Some countries are pretty nice. I met a lady in Germany who was staying there with her family after her husband had retired from the military. Said she liked it so much better than New York.
Motivemagus over 14 years ago
No, scott, we’re saying that if so many other countries can deliver better healthcare to ALL their citizens at a better price, we should be able to do at least that well!
HabaneroBuck over 14 years ago
Nobody has better healthcare in the world than the United States. I don’t even care what kind of propoganda you can pull out, this whole argument is ludicrous. When it comes to emergency life-saving health care, it has been proven time and time again that the United States’ system is more successful than any other system in the world. That is to say, from the point one is diagnosed with something such as cancer to the end of one’s life, you will not get any better care anywhere in the world than the good ole US of A.
Americans don’t have longer life spans than the rest of the world because of the lifestyles and ethnic diversity of our population. That might not be popular, but it’s demonstrably true. It’s also true that we keep statistics based on infant deaths differently than other systems. On and on it goes, but whenever apples are compared to apples, the US is doing pretty well, and realistically can be called the “best in the world” without fear of contradiction.
fritzoid Premium Member over 14 years ago
There’s the question of quality of treatment available, and there’s the question of availability of quality treatment. They’re separate questions. The best doctors in the world using the best equipment in the world and the best medicines in the world can’t help you if you can’t afford to pay for them.
If you have insurance coverage, you’re still dependent upon some insurance company clerk approving payment for what your doctor recommends. If you DON’T have coverage, you’re screwed. A two-day stay in a hospital can wipe you out, assuming they’ll even ADMIT you without coverage.
Richard Howland-Bolton Premium Member over 14 years ago
The US is good at technology, but it’s lousy at caring. Technology is great at heroics (what I think of, probably wrongly, as DrKildareism) but it is expensive and elitist. In the US you get wonderful care if you are wealthy but the bums rush if you are not. In other developed countries things are better for everyone. I’ve lived in England, France and the US and I know that the US is by far a worse place to get sick in than either of the others. My Father died a year ago in England after seven years of dialysis three times a week, doctors visiting him at his home, and what I feel was excellent CARING care, all necessary drugs and all at no cost to him. The cost being shared by all tax payers comes out at at about 1/2 to 2/3 of what it costs in the US (calculated per head). There is pretty much NOTHING that comes between patient and doctor. For example the other year my daughter while passing through England from Kenya to her home in the US needed medical attention and was seen by the doctor immediately with no questions asked about eligibility (she is a dual citizen, but she sounds American). So HabaneroBuck, scottfreitas and your weird lot, go on spouting pseudo-patriotic rubbish in your ignorance and self delusion, it may make you right-wing but doesn’t make you correct.
I like many things about the US, but sadly when (in a few years) I retire there is no way I’ll stay here. I’ll be off to the land of freedom—free at least from having to worry about health care, and of course free from the likes of HabaneroBuck, scottfreitas and their weird lot. :-)
Richard Howland-Bolton Premium Member over 14 years ago
@scott Naa, nothing personal, I just needed something to add to the last sentence. :-)
aardvarkseyes over 14 years ago
Scott and Harley,
I’m Canadian. Along with a vast majority of Canadians (usually between 75 and 80 per cent, depending upon the poll), I wouldn’t trade my health care for anything, especially not yours. I had triple bypass surgery; it was timely, and it was paid for by our collective taxes. I didn’t have to deal with insurance companies, and I certainly didn’t have to worry about going bankrupt in order to pay for the operation.
Americans may have the best doctors and hospitals in the world. You undoubtedly have the best medical researchers. BUT you do not have the best system. I hope neither of you every have a serious ailment; better to learn from argument than experience.