Only taxpayer supported unions should go. Private sector unions are between employers and workforce and were accepted by the employer who pays the wages. Let him answer to the stockholders (if any) with his job.
You really think one unconstitutional law is the end of everything? This has created a grass-roots groundswell the Tea Party couldn’t even have dreamed of. First, the WI Supreme Court goes liberal and overturns the law. Second, WI GOP senators are recalled and the Democrats get the majority. Third, Walker is recalled, Feingold is Governor. And this is nationwide. Walker and the other Koch Whores don’t realize they just sparked a progressive movement for 2012. As go the unions, so goes the middle class. It’s no coincidence that waning unions have eroded the purchasing power of working people. The GOP is right, this is class warfare, the only thing is, the Rich have been fighting the war since the 80’s, and it’s about time the working class joins the fight.
“Unions have outlived their usefulness in this nation.”
If that’s true then why are Republicans trying hard to get rid of everything they worked so hard to accomplish? Like minimum wage laws and child labor laws.
Seems to me that you guys want to roll back the new deal.
“Private sector unions are between employers and workforce…”
You think consumers don’t pay for private sector expenses? Let’s hear complaining about paying for CEO’s multimillion dollar “bonuses” for outsourcing jobs and firing American workers - and their yachts, private planes and sixth, seventh and eighth McMansions.
In my community, there have been 3 union demonstrations over the past 2 weeks, all openly sponsored by MoveOn.
Methinks these demonstrations are a sign of desperation, not “grass roots” mobilization. The significance of Wisconsin is not the final result, but the education the public received about how the Democrat - unions money laundering really works. That’s going to be difficult to recover from, as there are many, many more people paying these political kickbacks (through their state taxes) than there are receiving them.
If demonstrations on the level of what we saw in Wisconsin (Hitler posters, kids let out of school by teachers, fake MD notes, banging on windows, obnoxious yelling) are going to showcase the 2012 election cycle, then it will be a repeat of the 2004 elections and the Republicans have already won the Big Chair.
@ Valen: Umm… where exactly is it enumerated in the Constitution that there is a right to belong to a union, a right to collectively bargain, or a right to get amazing benefits from your job?
I’ll give you a clue, it’s not in there.
@ the rest of you guys: You know what you aren’t seeing? Demonstrations by supporters, because we’re too busy working. It doesn’t set back any clocks, it doesn’t curb the rights of the worker, it only prohibits unions from coercing government officials for better benefits. Three words for all the nay-sayers who are so pro-union it blinds them: Suck. It. Up.
Nemesys, you are spot on! Most of the people protesting in WI don’t have any skin in the game. Just bussed in by organizations like MoveOn etc. They are a disgusting, dirty, vile group littering the Capitol grounds & destroying the building at again the taxpayers expense to the tune of 7 million dollars.
“In dramatic revolt, Miami-Dade voters fire Mayor Carlos Alvarez over pay hikes, tax increase”
As the article says, “Tuesday’s vote served notice that the public is thirsting for widespread reform at County Hall, long dominated by entrenched politicians and insiders”.
That’s the legacy of Wisconsin - and of the Tea Party.
bobwinners, “Uniformity” does not apply. If it did, every government and private sector employee would all make the same income, live in the same type of house, be allowed the same number of children, drive the same car, eat the same food… even “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” would seem right-wing in comparison.
The government prohibits discrimination based on specific protected categories. It does not prohibit discrimination conducted in the name of job type or performance. “Feels unfair” is not the definition of “unconstitutional”.
Odd… I think all of the people cheering this on seem to be forgetting that unions such as POLICE OFFICERS and FIREFIGHTERS, some of the largest unions in Wisconsin, are immune to this bill.
And every taxpayer supports greedy thugs. Executive bonuses are funded by taxpayer bailouts, and government contracting.
In the end…the voters elected this guy that includes union members who didn’t think it would happen to them or that ‘they’ are ‘them.’ The agenda for the far right is the elimination of all post depression public programs. Only massive unemployment will change the scenario with the idiots finding themselves and their families in the slaughter house chute headed for annihilation. Firing tax payers doesn’t make a lot of sense except to ideologues.
Unbreakable Union of freeborn Republics,
Great Rus’ has welded forever to stand.
Created in struggle by will of the people,
United and mighty, our Soviet land!
CHORUS:
Sing to the Motherland, home of the free,
Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong.
O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people,
To Communism’s triumph lead us on!
Through tempests the sunrays of freedom have cheered us, Along the new path where great Lenin did lead.
To a righteous cause he raised up the peoples,
Inspired them to labour and valourous deed.
CHORUS
In the victory of Communism’s deathless ideal,
We see the future of our dear land.
And to her fluttering scarlet banner,
Selflessly true we always shall stand!
Lovely tune penned by a wonderful Russian composer at the behest of an international labor movement. For those of you too young to remember; it is an English translation of the Soviet National Anthem. Let the fluttering red banners of revolution and the thrilling calls for workers rights sweep you into the tyranny of despostic rule, centralized economic planning and the stifling of political dissent through the threat of a ten year sentence in a Gulag prison camp.
Their arms welcome you now; they want your support today. Tommorow, they will be confiscating your home and the assets of your labor and providing it to those more deserving. Your single family home will accomodate more than one family. After all there should be no private property only the holding of “personal property”, i.e., a watch, hair brush or a pair of pants.
Believe that this scenario will not play out here?
Oh, W(ar).Crime. After hearing about the usual CEO’s and their McMansions, sleeping giants, greedy thugs, corporate sponsored, billionaire funded, American sellout, hypocritical sexist pigs, environment destroying, job exporting, bankster groupie, greedy Republicans trying hard to get rid of minimum wage laws and child labor laws, all on this thread alone, what’s wrong with one more little boogie man?
Creating boogie men is what you do best. Funny you don’t like it much.
Nemesys Not sure what you mean by Winsconsin and the tea party but the recall in Miami was orchestrated by local car salesman Norman Braman (rich guy BTW). The tea party had nothing to do with it. The mayor was a crook. He and the city council approved the new Marlins stadium without a public vote, started waging war with the local fire and police departments in order to pay for the thing, and when he was still short (gee I wonder why) he decided to raise taxes. Braman got a bunch of signatures together and instigated the recall vote.
They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost. They remind us that freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. You and I must protect and preserve freedom here or it will not be passed on to our children and it would disappear everywhere in the world.
Ronald Reagan, 1980.
W(ar).Crime, I mean that I agree with the Herald, sections of which I already quoted. The complete article fills in the gaps.
Left or right, people are tired of corrupt insiders making foolish and self-serving deals and then passing the bill along to the taxpayers in the form of tax increases. Contrary to what you may read, that’s what the Tea Party is all about (not about paying no taxes at all), and that was the real reason for breaking those union contracts in Wisconsin. From the taxpayers’ perspective, it’s just different cuts from the same pork belly.
BTW, I go to school in North Miami Beach, so I know, too.
Thanks for your input W Crime. My (Russian) wife and I were married at 2cd Baptist in Moscow surrounded by former Gulag inmates. Your buddies in the Communist International (Comintern) and various labor organizations have a wonderful track record. You shouldn’t ignore the body count of 50 million+ souls. All sacrificed to the socialist ideal… again I refer you to the Soviet Anthem.
Do you understand that ideas have consequences? It’s easy to take pot shots from your perch in a Western country; one that has enjoyed an unparalled standard of living and the gift of free expression. I’d suggest you take a tour of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics and then rethink your positions. The anarchist/socialist dream of a new order requires the complete destruction of the existing order. Is that your goal or is it only one of incremental change on the march to fulfill the manifesto?
phdtogo, there’s a certain attraction for preaching anarchy, in that one has more ability to determine what defines heresy in the Dark Ages which will follow.
If some folks don’t like Lisa’s cartoon today, they’re definately not going to like it tomorrow :-)
runar about 13 years ago
Wisconsin isn’t finished yet.
Charles Brobst Premium Member about 13 years ago
The end of the Republicants.
Bacoguy1 about 13 years ago
Relaaaaax!! The Repubs will be voted out. Dems voted in. Dems raise taxes, Dems voted out,
mredd3 about 13 years ago
This is the first salvo in the fight to end unions - that is a good thing. Uninons have out lived their usefulness in this nation.
bob875m about 13 years ago
Its about time. Unions were a good thing back in the 20’s, but now they are just a bunch of greedy mafia thugs.
DesultoryPhillipic about 13 years ago
Only taxpayer supported unions should go. Private sector unions are between employers and workforce and were accepted by the employer who pays the wages. Let him answer to the stockholders (if any) with his job.
ianrey about 13 years ago
You really think one unconstitutional law is the end of everything? This has created a grass-roots groundswell the Tea Party couldn’t even have dreamed of. First, the WI Supreme Court goes liberal and overturns the law. Second, WI GOP senators are recalled and the Democrats get the majority. Third, Walker is recalled, Feingold is Governor. And this is nationwide. Walker and the other Koch Whores don’t realize they just sparked a progressive movement for 2012. As go the unions, so goes the middle class. It’s no coincidence that waning unions have eroded the purchasing power of working people. The GOP is right, this is class warfare, the only thing is, the Rich have been fighting the war since the 80’s, and it’s about time the working class joins the fight.
WarBush about 13 years ago
“Unions have outlived their usefulness in this nation.”
If that’s true then why are Republicans trying hard to get rid of everything they worked so hard to accomplish? Like minimum wage laws and child labor laws.
Seems to me that you guys want to roll back the new deal.
runar about 13 years ago
“Private sector unions are between employers and workforce…”
You think consumers don’t pay for private sector expenses? Let’s hear complaining about paying for CEO’s multimillion dollar “bonuses” for outsourcing jobs and firing American workers - and their yachts, private planes and sixth, seventh and eighth McMansions.
Nemesys about 13 years ago
In my community, there have been 3 union demonstrations over the past 2 weeks, all openly sponsored by MoveOn.
Methinks these demonstrations are a sign of desperation, not “grass roots” mobilization. The significance of Wisconsin is not the final result, but the education the public received about how the Democrat - unions money laundering really works. That’s going to be difficult to recover from, as there are many, many more people paying these political kickbacks (through their state taxes) than there are receiving them.
If demonstrations on the level of what we saw in Wisconsin (Hitler posters, kids let out of school by teachers, fake MD notes, banging on windows, obnoxious yelling) are going to showcase the 2012 election cycle, then it will be a repeat of the 2004 elections and the Republicans have already won the Big Chair.
Wraithkin about 13 years ago
@ Valen: Umm… where exactly is it enumerated in the Constitution that there is a right to belong to a union, a right to collectively bargain, or a right to get amazing benefits from your job?
I’ll give you a clue, it’s not in there.
@ the rest of you guys: You know what you aren’t seeing? Demonstrations by supporters, because we’re too busy working. It doesn’t set back any clocks, it doesn’t curb the rights of the worker, it only prohibits unions from coercing government officials for better benefits. Three words for all the nay-sayers who are so pro-union it blinds them: Suck. It. Up.
josefw about 13 years ago
Nemesys, you are spot on! Most of the people protesting in WI don’t have any skin in the game. Just bussed in by organizations like MoveOn etc. They are a disgusting, dirty, vile group littering the Capitol grounds & destroying the building at again the taxpayers expense to the tune of 7 million dollars.
Moley about 13 years ago
You wish it was the end of the line LIsa. The sleeping giant that Walker woke up is just getting started.
So, how’s your planned Plutocracy looking now?
Nemesys about 13 years ago
tkueny, you’re right, in a way. The sleeping giant has indeed awakened. Look what the voters did yesterday in Miami:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/15/2117129/9-of-10-say-yes-to-ousting-alvarez.html#
“In dramatic revolt, Miami-Dade voters fire Mayor Carlos Alvarez over pay hikes, tax increase”
As the article says, “Tuesday’s vote served notice that the public is thirsting for widespread reform at County Hall, long dominated by entrenched politicians and insiders”.
That’s the legacy of Wisconsin - and of the Tea Party.
pirate227 about 13 years ago
Just the beginning. Let the recalls begin!
Nemesys about 13 years ago
bobwinners, “Uniformity” does not apply. If it did, every government and private sector employee would all make the same income, live in the same type of house, be allowed the same number of children, drive the same car, eat the same food… even “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” would seem right-wing in comparison.
The government prohibits discrimination based on specific protected categories. It does not prohibit discrimination conducted in the name of job type or performance. “Feels unfair” is not the definition of “unconstitutional”.
Jaedabee Premium Member about 13 years ago
Odd… I think all of the people cheering this on seem to be forgetting that unions such as POLICE OFFICERS and FIREFIGHTERS, some of the largest unions in Wisconsin, are immune to this bill.
And every taxpayer supports greedy thugs. Executive bonuses are funded by taxpayer bailouts, and government contracting.
vatonaught about 13 years ago
In the end…the voters elected this guy that includes union members who didn’t think it would happen to them or that ‘they’ are ‘them.’ The agenda for the far right is the elimination of all post depression public programs. Only massive unemployment will change the scenario with the idiots finding themselves and their families in the slaughter house chute headed for annihilation. Firing tax payers doesn’t make a lot of sense except to ideologues.
phdtogo about 13 years ago
A favorite song of the organizers in Wisconsin:
Unbreakable Union of freeborn Republics, Great Rus’ has welded forever to stand. Created in struggle by will of the people, United and mighty, our Soviet land!CHORUS:
Sing to the Motherland, home of the free, Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong. O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people, To Communism’s triumph lead us on!
Through tempests the sunrays of freedom have cheered us, Along the new path where great Lenin did lead. To a righteous cause he raised up the peoples, Inspired them to labour and valourous deed.CHORUS
In the victory of Communism’s deathless ideal, We see the future of our dear land. And to her fluttering scarlet banner, Selflessly true we always shall stand!phdtogo about 13 years ago
Lovely tune penned by a wonderful Russian composer at the behest of an international labor movement. For those of you too young to remember; it is an English translation of the Soviet National Anthem. Let the fluttering red banners of revolution and the thrilling calls for workers rights sweep you into the tyranny of despostic rule, centralized economic planning and the stifling of political dissent through the threat of a ten year sentence in a Gulag prison camp.
Their arms welcome you now; they want your support today. Tommorow, they will be confiscating your home and the assets of your labor and providing it to those more deserving. Your single family home will accomodate more than one family. After all there should be no private property only the holding of “personal property”, i.e., a watch, hair brush or a pair of pants.
Believe that this scenario will not play out here?
WarBush about 13 years ago
^No one is calling for tyranny. Stop with your boogie men.
Nemesys about 13 years ago
Oh, W(ar).Crime. After hearing about the usual CEO’s and their McMansions, sleeping giants, greedy thugs, corporate sponsored, billionaire funded, American sellout, hypocritical sexist pigs, environment destroying, job exporting, bankster groupie, greedy Republicans trying hard to get rid of minimum wage laws and child labor laws, all on this thread alone, what’s wrong with one more little boogie man?
Creating boogie men is what you do best. Funny you don’t like it much.
WarBush about 13 years ago
Nemesys Not sure what you mean by Winsconsin and the tea party but the recall in Miami was orchestrated by local car salesman Norman Braman (rich guy BTW). The tea party had nothing to do with it. The mayor was a crook. He and the city council approved the new Marlins stadium without a public vote, started waging war with the local fire and police departments in order to pay for the thing, and when he was still short (gee I wonder why) he decided to raise taxes. Braman got a bunch of signatures together and instigated the recall vote.
I work in Miami. I should know.
Jaedabee Premium Member about 13 years ago
They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost. They remind us that freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. You and I must protect and preserve freedom here or it will not be passed on to our children and it would disappear everywhere in the world. Ronald Reagan, 1980.
Mmm, boogie men.
Nemesys about 13 years ago
W(ar).Crime, I mean that I agree with the Herald, sections of which I already quoted. The complete article fills in the gaps.
Left or right, people are tired of corrupt insiders making foolish and self-serving deals and then passing the bill along to the taxpayers in the form of tax increases. Contrary to what you may read, that’s what the Tea Party is all about (not about paying no taxes at all), and that was the real reason for breaking those union contracts in Wisconsin. From the taxpayers’ perspective, it’s just different cuts from the same pork belly.
BTW, I go to school in North Miami Beach, so I know, too.
Jaedabee Premium Member about 13 years ago
^ Someone missed a prank phone call… and plenty of unions who are not touched by this option. But the best part is:
“Contrary to what you may read, that’s what the Tea Party is all about (not about paying no taxes at all), ”
Which is why they’re unanimously supporting defense of DOMA. They’re totally not a reactionary far-right wing group. Totally not. *phdtogo about 13 years ago
Thanks for your input W Crime. My (Russian) wife and I were married at 2cd Baptist in Moscow surrounded by former Gulag inmates. Your buddies in the Communist International (Comintern) and various labor organizations have a wonderful track record. You shouldn’t ignore the body count of 50 million+ souls. All sacrificed to the socialist ideal… again I refer you to the Soviet Anthem.
Do you understand that ideas have consequences? It’s easy to take pot shots from your perch in a Western country; one that has enjoyed an unparalled standard of living and the gift of free expression. I’d suggest you take a tour of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics and then rethink your positions. The anarchist/socialist dream of a new order requires the complete destruction of the existing order. Is that your goal or is it only one of incremental change on the march to fulfill the manifesto?
Nemesys about 13 years ago
phdtogo, there’s a certain attraction for preaching anarchy, in that one has more ability to determine what defines heresy in the Dark Ages which will follow.
If some folks don’t like Lisa’s cartoon today, they’re definately not going to like it tomorrow :-)
Moley about 13 years ago
Walker accepted a phone call from David Koch, …case closed.