Man 1: I wonder if this is God punishing us for not passing a climate bill. Man 2: No, it's us punishing ourselves. Tom: People work in mysterious ways. Record heat. Record storm.
You have been had again. Isn’t it nice to know that those millions of dollars that Exxon/Mobil spent to fund phony grassroots anti-climate change organization were a good investment? We won’t make any change in our lifestyle that requires effort or diminished corporate profits if there is any doubt about impending disaster. 99% of reputable scientists agree about man-made climate change. Some prominent climate scientists, such as Rush Limbaugh and anyone hired by big oil, disagree.
The climate change deniers who cause our country to continue the status quo will indeed make sure that man’s “blink of an eye on this planet” is a shorter more traumatic blink than it needs to be.
And think about this,HQ–anyone who calls Al Gore and the best scientists in every country in the whole world an idiot must be awfully sure of himself AND an idiot.
Please look at the long term historic graph from polar ice samples. Analized for CO2 and other gases for millions of years. The graph looks like a saw blade. With spikes and valleys. If man is causing this spike , then what caused the other dozens of spikes? Remember, when Mount Pennitubo erupted, it spewed more CO2 into the atmosphere than the history of man and its machines could ever do.
I haven’t noticed anything that is really beyond what one would consider as a “tolerance” with any of the weather in the last twenty years, and that’s just fact.
What are these “record” storms to which Toles refers? Record heat? So we’ve had lots of days around 100 lately…that equates to drought and flooding? Do you all who support this tripe realize how mad you are?
99%, eepatte? An utter prevarication. Absolute bald-faced LIE. The cure for CO2…simple and cheap, legalize industrial hemp and take away the government subsidies for corn. As soon as I see a huge groundswell of support for this measure, I will believe that anyone is really serious about “saving our mother.”
I’m a delicate flower, almost passing out walking from the mall to my car isn’t the most enjoyable portion of my to-do list.
“Do you all who support this tripe realize how mad you are?”
I’m just trying to put myself in the mind of a Republican. Supporting legislation and bias based on blind faith. Except … not … cause it’s actually hot outside.
I would be willing to wager that if the initiation of those measures that will thwart global warming didn’t directly affect their pocketbook, the global warming skeptics wouldn’t question any of the scientific rationale. All of a sudden, they just wouldn’t care.
A person has the right to disagree, regardless. Moreover, a person has a right to hoard as much of their money as they can; however, it would be refreshing to hear someone refuting global warming with this candid caveat: “This is another scientific article/study I found that lends doubt to global warming, further justification for our government to not get too hasty and ratify laws that would have an adverse effect on my pocketbook.”
What other reason is there to refute global warming other than concern about the economic impacts, i.e., personal pocketbook? I’m not aware of any scientific studies that conclude that the initiation of measures to address global warming will have an adverse impact on the natural environment.
Capitalism and communism are the twin evils facing this planet. Both systems rely heavily on exploiting the misery and poverty of millions, if not billions of people around the world, just so that a rich, powerful elite can become even richer and more powerful.
As for climate change, I see the evidence as overwhelming that some sort of change is happening.
It may well be part of of a pattern stretching back millions of years. I’ve got no quibble with that. The point being that for the first time in Earth’s history humanity’s industrial activity has become part of the mix and it would be folly, bordering on criminality, not to try hard to lessen the worst effects of this obvious change.
You asked “what records?” Apparently 1000 of them. If it’s “only since 1860” it’s only since 1860. The question was “what records?” The answer was supplied.
“This and other facts show that valley glaciers in many parts of the world are shrinking, and this would seem to indicate either that the earth’s climate on the whole is slowly becoming warmer, or that less snow is falling than formerly.”
“The waste of natural gas is appalling. In one district of Louisiana, 70,000,000 cubic feet a day burned for years in the open air.”
“New oil fields are discovered(in the U.S.) almost yearly, and old fields decline. The United States produces about 2/3 of the petroleum used in the world, and the Mexican fields near the Gulf of Mexico are the second largest producers. The Russian field near the Caspian Sea ranks third.”
A chart showing world petroleum production- 65% US, 22% Mexico, Russia 5%, “Persia” 2%, “rest of the world”- under 10%.
All of the above information, plus a better description of climate versus “weather” than deniers understand is from “High School Geography” by The Macmillan Company- 1922
The RATE of temperature increase has increased, with the increase in CO2 from all that coal (mostly) oil, and natural gas consumption since that 1922 text was written. When looking at the relatively “minor” use of coal and oil just prior to this publication, as the book describes switching navies and shipping, and trains, from coal, to “more efficient and cheaper” petroleum, today’s research and data clearly show how we’ve “done the pooch” since those days.
It is also interesting that Mobil oil monopolized access to Saudi oil fields a year later, in 1923.
Record heat figures only require listening to the news, same for “record” floods and other storm events. Climate is changing, weather patterns are a RESULT, not the cause.
It has nothing to do with “nature” or a deity, and everything to do with our inattention, and later pure greed- that keeps us from using the multiple solutions available, if we just put practices before profits.
Just for curiosity. Now that China has passed the US in energy usage should the US taxpayer fund all the expenses to save the earth. They will be many many $trillions. if not what do we do if China chooses not to join us? Next on the horizon will be India. What do we do if they also choose not to fund the $trillions? The American taxpayer should save the world? I have learned that it is a very bad idea if we wish to stop dictators from killing millions of their own.
Jade, I just want to remind you that anecdotal evidence about the weather means nothing in the context of debate about “climate change.” You aren’t allowed to notice that it’s hot and use that as an argument. This is what we were told last year when we had to spend so much extra money through the winter keeping our homes warm because of an extended (and cold) winter.
The real point is that it is totally irrelevant whether or not we have global warming/cooling, or whether or not man has caused it, or increased it.
The real point is that if we don’t stop trashing the environment pretty soon - say 50 years ago - it’s all going to be moot anyway.
We need to stop abusing the environment NOW. And by ‘we’ - I don’t mean just the working stiffs who can be easily pushed around, I mean corporate industry and their drivers!
“The mountain will never blow, the scientists don’t know what they’re talking about.”- (out of context but his view) Harry Truman at Spirit Lake next to Mt. St Helens.
Howie just LOVES “that” Harry Truman, never believe science, ‘cause you might lose a boat rental.
harley - you’re still using citations that have been clobbered by various posters, you’re still pretending Al Gore has something to do with climate science, and you’re citing the “petition project,” which was debunked AGES ago. It’s a crock, harley - it’s not a survey, it’s not indicative of the state of scientists generally – if you look, there are dozens of scientific societies in a host of fields that have officially stated they are convinced by the data, whereas the Petition Project will take anyone who asserts they are a scientist (it’s not a vetted list), and includes has 10,102 names under “General Engineering and General Science.” Hate to break it to you, but no one gives advanced degrees in “General Science.”
97% of REAL climate scientists believe in AGW. The more they know, the more likely they are to agree.
kennethcwarren64 almost 14 years ago
Mother Nature does not punish – Mother Nature just is what she is.
God I’m not sure about, I am hoping that she has a soft spot in her heart for those who do a lot of stupid things in a interesting way.
sjc14850 almost 14 years ago
Thanks, Harley. It’s an honor to be in the presence of someone who knows better than 99-percent-plus of the planet’s climatologists.
eepatte almost 14 years ago
HQ,
You have been had again. Isn’t it nice to know that those millions of dollars that Exxon/Mobil spent to fund phony grassroots anti-climate change organization were a good investment? We won’t make any change in our lifestyle that requires effort or diminished corporate profits if there is any doubt about impending disaster. 99% of reputable scientists agree about man-made climate change. Some prominent climate scientists, such as Rush Limbaugh and anyone hired by big oil, disagree.
The climate change deniers who cause our country to continue the status quo will indeed make sure that man’s “blink of an eye on this planet” is a shorter more traumatic blink than it needs to be.
And think about this,HQ–anyone who calls Al Gore and the best scientists in every country in the whole world an idiot must be awfully sure of himself AND an idiot.
wolfhoundblues1 almost 14 years ago
Please look at the long term historic graph from polar ice samples. Analized for CO2 and other gases for millions of years. The graph looks like a saw blade. With spikes and valleys. If man is causing this spike , then what caused the other dozens of spikes? Remember, when Mount Pennitubo erupted, it spewed more CO2 into the atmosphere than the history of man and its machines could ever do.
HabaneroBuck almost 14 years ago
I haven’t noticed anything that is really beyond what one would consider as a “tolerance” with any of the weather in the last twenty years, and that’s just fact.
What are these “record” storms to which Toles refers? Record heat? So we’ve had lots of days around 100 lately…that equates to drought and flooding? Do you all who support this tripe realize how mad you are?
99%, eepatte? An utter prevarication. Absolute bald-faced LIE. The cure for CO2…simple and cheap, legalize industrial hemp and take away the government subsidies for corn. As soon as I see a huge groundswell of support for this measure, I will believe that anyone is really serious about “saving our mother.”
Jaedabee Premium Member almost 14 years ago
“and just whose “records” are you looking at?”
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/weathermatrix/story/27172/nearly-1000-heat-records-broken-in-northeast.asp http://247wallst.com/2010/07/07/record-heat-stresses-northeast-power-grid/ http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-07-07/nyc-hits-record-high-again-amid-northeast-heat-wave.html http://weatherarc.com/blog/2010/07/07/record-heat-in-the-northeast/I’m a delicate flower, almost passing out walking from the mall to my car isn’t the most enjoyable portion of my to-do list.
“Do you all who support this tripe realize how mad you are?”
I’m just trying to put myself in the mind of a Republican. Supporting legislation and bias based on blind faith. Except … not … cause it’s actually hot outside.burenar almost 14 years ago
I would be willing to wager that if the initiation of those measures that will thwart global warming didn’t directly affect their pocketbook, the global warming skeptics wouldn’t question any of the scientific rationale. All of a sudden, they just wouldn’t care.
A person has the right to disagree, regardless. Moreover, a person has a right to hoard as much of their money as they can; however, it would be refreshing to hear someone refuting global warming with this candid caveat: “This is another scientific article/study I found that lends doubt to global warming, further justification for our government to not get too hasty and ratify laws that would have an adverse effect on my pocketbook.”
What other reason is there to refute global warming other than concern about the economic impacts, i.e., personal pocketbook? I’m not aware of any scientific studies that conclude that the initiation of measures to address global warming will have an adverse impact on the natural environment.
benbrilling almost 14 years ago
Congress is just bending to the (manipulated) will of the people.
I’ve always lamented that the only thing wrong with democracy is that the majority of the people are stupid.
celt42 almost 14 years ago
Capitalism and communism are the twin evils facing this planet. Both systems rely heavily on exploiting the misery and poverty of millions, if not billions of people around the world, just so that a rich, powerful elite can become even richer and more powerful.
As for climate change, I see the evidence as overwhelming that some sort of change is happening.
It may well be part of of a pattern stretching back millions of years. I’ve got no quibble with that. The point being that for the first time in Earth’s history humanity’s industrial activity has become part of the mix and it would be folly, bordering on criminality, not to try hard to lessen the worst effects of this obvious change.
Jaedabee Premium Member almost 14 years ago
^^^ Way to blow my cover, geez!
“Jade http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba337”
You asked “what records?” Apparently 1000 of them. If it’s “only since 1860” it’s only since 1860. The question was “what records?” The answer was supplied.Dtroutma almost 14 years ago
“This and other facts show that valley glaciers in many parts of the world are shrinking, and this would seem to indicate either that the earth’s climate on the whole is slowly becoming warmer, or that less snow is falling than formerly.”
“The waste of natural gas is appalling. In one district of Louisiana, 70,000,000 cubic feet a day burned for years in the open air.”
“New oil fields are discovered(in the U.S.) almost yearly, and old fields decline. The United States produces about 2/3 of the petroleum used in the world, and the Mexican fields near the Gulf of Mexico are the second largest producers. The Russian field near the Caspian Sea ranks third.”
A chart showing world petroleum production- 65% US, 22% Mexico, Russia 5%, “Persia” 2%, “rest of the world”- under 10%.
All of the above information, plus a better description of climate versus “weather” than deniers understand is from “High School Geography” by The Macmillan Company- 1922
The RATE of temperature increase has increased, with the increase in CO2 from all that coal (mostly) oil, and natural gas consumption since that 1922 text was written. When looking at the relatively “minor” use of coal and oil just prior to this publication, as the book describes switching navies and shipping, and trains, from coal, to “more efficient and cheaper” petroleum, today’s research and data clearly show how we’ve “done the pooch” since those days.
It is also interesting that Mobil oil monopolized access to Saudi oil fields a year later, in 1923.
Record heat figures only require listening to the news, same for “record” floods and other storm events. Climate is changing, weather patterns are a RESULT, not the cause.
It has nothing to do with “nature” or a deity, and everything to do with our inattention, and later pure greed- that keeps us from using the multiple solutions available, if we just put practices before profits.
ChukLitl Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Can we get off the climate change argument & just say; “Clean up you own mess. Maybe you’ll learn not to be so messy.”
Libertarian1 almost 14 years ago
Just for curiosity. Now that China has passed the US in energy usage should the US taxpayer fund all the expenses to save the earth. They will be many many $trillions. if not what do we do if China chooses not to join us? Next on the horizon will be India. What do we do if they also choose not to fund the $trillions? The American taxpayer should save the world? I have learned that it is a very bad idea if we wish to stop dictators from killing millions of their own.
Jaedabee Premium Member almost 14 years ago
^^ NYTimes: China Leading Global Race to Make Clean Energy
HabaneroBuck almost 14 years ago
Jade, I just want to remind you that anecdotal evidence about the weather means nothing in the context of debate about “climate change.” You aren’t allowed to notice that it’s hot and use that as an argument. This is what we were told last year when we had to spend so much extra money through the winter keeping our homes warm because of an extended (and cold) winter.
I was glad that this past winter was much warmer…
Hawthorne almost 14 years ago
The real point is that it is totally irrelevant whether or not we have global warming/cooling, or whether or not man has caused it, or increased it.
The real point is that if we don’t stop trashing the environment pretty soon - say 50 years ago - it’s all going to be moot anyway.
We need to stop abusing the environment NOW. And by ‘we’ - I don’t mean just the working stiffs who can be easily pushed around, I mean corporate industry and their drivers!
WarBush almost 14 years ago
^^^^^^Oh yeah Gramps. Todd Schnitt. Very Credible.
WarBush almost 14 years ago
Hey Quinn how come every website you post links for is funded by big oil or right wing groups like Java King Inc.?
How much are they paying you to spread the word the global warming doesn’t exist?
Dtroutma almost 14 years ago
“The mountain will never blow, the scientists don’t know what they’re talking about.”- (out of context but his view) Harry Truman at Spirit Lake next to Mt. St Helens.
Howie just LOVES “that” Harry Truman, never believe science, ‘cause you might lose a boat rental.
Motivemagus almost 14 years ago
harley - you’re still using citations that have been clobbered by various posters, you’re still pretending Al Gore has something to do with climate science, and you’re citing the “petition project,” which was debunked AGES ago. It’s a crock, harley - it’s not a survey, it’s not indicative of the state of scientists generally – if you look, there are dozens of scientific societies in a host of fields that have officially stated they are convinced by the data, whereas the Petition Project will take anyone who asserts they are a scientist (it’s not a vetted list), and includes has 10,102 names under “General Engineering and General Science.” Hate to break it to you, but no one gives advanced degrees in “General Science.” 97% of REAL climate scientists believe in AGW. The more they know, the more likely they are to agree.
fallacyside almost 14 years ago
Well, drat it! We all need to go back to push mowers… Well, why have lawns at all, anyway? Why have homes for that matter?
Let’s go back to fighting over caves so we can placate all these wacko Libs…
SuperGriz almost 14 years ago
I’m still reading up on inter-glacial periods. Frankly, I’d take an ice age over swamp world.