Worked for Nixon, of course he had an advantage in that the DEMS wouldn’t run around screaming that he was soft on Communism, while if Obama would do the right thing and pull out the GOP would scream for 20 years.
The GOP put us in Afghanistan, and now use it to bash Obama – Win/Win for them, of course our troops are still dying, but that’s alright as long as it benfits the GOP.
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks
You that never done nothin’
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it’s your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain
You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people’s blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud
You’ve thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain’t worth the blood
That runs in your veins
How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I’m young
You might say I’m unlearned
But there’s one thing I know
Though I’m younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul
And I hope that you die
And your death’ll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I’ll watch while you’re lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I’ll stand o’er your grave
‘Til I’m sure that you’re dead
We “ended” “our war” in 72, pulled out in April, 1975. In ‘66-67 we were attempting to work with the “little folks” and win them over. Then some moron would pull a “Bush”, and blow the village up. That’s where we need to stop screwing up in Afghanistan. The people DO NOT WANT Karzai! or a “national government” copied after the model we want. If we learn that, we may get out.
The overwhelming number of the “enemy” I encountered in ‘Nam were NOT “communists” (like the French imperialists)- they just wanted us out. As one old man and village leader said, “You leave us alone, we leave YOU alone!”
church, are you naive enough to think that what we are doing is working? We need to address this on the ground, and not with the army. We need intelligence, we need good politics and engagement with people and we need to cut off the support from other Arab nations – all of which can be advanced only if we get the armies out first, because our very presence is being used against us as an Al Qaida recruiting tool. I’d be all in favor of a small, mobile force going after, say, Bin Laden, but otherwise we seem to be in a losing game. I didn’t think that way at first, or even all that recently, but I’m now thinking that what we are doing is failing so badly we need to do something radically different. Even our hand-picked puppet is cozying up to his radical Islamic buddies - we need to get smarter on this.
I spent ten years demonstrating against Vietnam, but creating an intelligent and cohesion set of arguments against those two conflicts is much harder.
Although the Johnsons and other prominent Americans benefited from Vietnam, the number of American companies (Halliburtin, the new company known as Blackwater…) that it is harder to martial enthusiasm for leaving.In Vietnam, there were clearer opponents, even if they were slippery to fight. Iraq was never involved with the Taliban or Al-Qaida- Hussain was considered a heretic.
People forget that the Taliban uses weapons we left behind when they were the Mujahadin fighting Russia.
The Al-Qaida are also their own animal. They are all mobile and spawn individuals on an international level
to become assassins.
A very long way to say I agree with motivemagus wholeheartedly.
The US helps Afghans to fight USSR;
After the Soviets withdrew, US leaves Afghans alone;
Taliban, composed of the former freedom-fighters, and armed with the US supplied weapons, overruns the country and installs one of the most progressive regimes known to modern man;
Then, out of their love of the US and the West, Taliban opens the country to Al-Qaida … .attacking the US and the West - on our respective soils;
Now, our shear presence in Afghanistan serves to recruit more Taliban / Al-Qaida warriors;
Is there a difference between our being there or not?
^^You know why Al Queda is in a Jihad with us? Because we’re out there f(word)ing with their country!
“Remember 9/11?”
I sure do and it was something we didn’t have to deal with if El Presidente would have listened to Clinton and everyone else in the world who told him some s(word) was going down!
kennethcwarren64 almost 14 years ago
Worked for Nixon, of course he had an advantage in that the DEMS wouldn’t run around screaming that he was soft on Communism, while if Obama would do the right thing and pull out the GOP would scream for 20 years.
The GOP put us in Afghanistan, and now use it to bash Obama – Win/Win for them, of course our troops are still dying, but that’s alright as long as it benfits the GOP.
myming almost 14 years ago
so sad…
cfimeiatpap almost 14 years ago
Come you masters of war You that build all the guns You that build the death planes You that build the big bombs You that hide behind walls You that hide behind desks I just want you to know I can see through your masks
You that never done nothin’ But build to destroy You play with my world Like it’s your little toy You put a gun in my hand And you hide from my eyes And you turn and run farther When the fast bullets fly
Like Judas of old You lie and deceive A world war can be won You want me to believe But I see through your eyes And I see through your brain Like I see through the water That runs down my drain
You fasten the triggers For the others to fire Then you set back and watch When the death count gets higher You hide in your mansion As young people’s blood Flows out of their bodies And is buried in the mud
You’ve thrown the worst fear That can ever be hurled Fear to bring children Into the world For threatening my baby Unborn and unnamed You ain’t worth the blood That runs in your veins
How much do I know To talk out of turn You might say that I’m young You might say I’m unlearned But there’s one thing I know Though I’m younger than you Even Jesus would never Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question Is your money that good Will it buy you forgiveness Do you think that it could I think you will find When your death takes its toll All the money you made Will never buy back your soul
And I hope that you die And your death’ll come soon I will follow your casket In the pale afternoon And I’ll watch while you’re lowered Down to your deathbed And I’ll stand o’er your grave ‘Til I’m sure that you’re dead
Masters of War - Bob Dylan 1963
petergrt almost 14 years ago
0bama keeps fighting in Afghanistan just to appease the GOP.
Very interrresting …indeed.
davecancer almost 14 years ago
“Just a matter of time”
PaddyJaye almost 14 years ago
ANandy: Stop the name calling.
Jaedabee Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Keep fighting, we have infinity money to spend.
benbrilling almost 14 years ago
Someone with a name like ANandy isn’t wise to be name-calling.
Simon_Jester almost 14 years ago
Does that mean you’re gonna join up?
Dtroutma almost 14 years ago
We “ended” “our war” in 72, pulled out in April, 1975. In ‘66-67 we were attempting to work with the “little folks” and win them over. Then some moron would pull a “Bush”, and blow the village up. That’s where we need to stop screwing up in Afghanistan. The people DO NOT WANT Karzai! or a “national government” copied after the model we want. If we learn that, we may get out.
The overwhelming number of the “enemy” I encountered in ‘Nam were NOT “communists” (like the French imperialists)- they just wanted us out. As one old man and village leader said, “You leave us alone, we leave YOU alone!”
petergrt almost 14 years ago
“As one old man and village leader said, “You leave us alone, we leave YOU alone!””
They must have been ecstatic when Vietcong came in.
Or did they join the boat-people flotilla?
Motivemagus almost 14 years ago
church, are you naive enough to think that what we are doing is working? We need to address this on the ground, and not with the army. We need intelligence, we need good politics and engagement with people and we need to cut off the support from other Arab nations – all of which can be advanced only if we get the armies out first, because our very presence is being used against us as an Al Qaida recruiting tool. I’d be all in favor of a small, mobile force going after, say, Bin Laden, but otherwise we seem to be in a losing game. I didn’t think that way at first, or even all that recently, but I’m now thinking that what we are doing is failing so badly we need to do something radically different. Even our hand-picked puppet is cozying up to his radical Islamic buddies - we need to get smarter on this.
badmojo almost 14 years ago
I spent ten years demonstrating against Vietnam, but creating an intelligent and cohesion set of arguments against those two conflicts is much harder. Although the Johnsons and other prominent Americans benefited from Vietnam, the number of American companies (Halliburtin, the new company known as Blackwater…) that it is harder to martial enthusiasm for leaving.In Vietnam, there were clearer opponents, even if they were slippery to fight. Iraq was never involved with the Taliban or Al-Qaida- Hussain was considered a heretic. People forget that the Taliban uses weapons we left behind when they were the Mujahadin fighting Russia. The Al-Qaida are also their own animal. They are all mobile and spawn individuals on an international level to become assassins. A very long way to say I agree with motivemagus wholeheartedly.
petergrt almost 14 years ago
The US helps Afghans to fight USSR; After the Soviets withdrew, US leaves Afghans alone; Taliban, composed of the former freedom-fighters, and armed with the US supplied weapons, overruns the country and installs one of the most progressive regimes known to modern man; Then, out of their love of the US and the West, Taliban opens the country to Al-Qaida … .attacking the US and the West - on our respective soils;
Now, our shear presence in Afghanistan serves to recruit more Taliban / Al-Qaida warriors;
Is there a difference between our being there or not?
WarBush almost 14 years ago
^^You know why Al Queda is in a Jihad with us? Because we’re out there f(word)ing with their country!
“Remember 9/11?”
I sure do and it was something we didn’t have to deal with if El Presidente would have listened to Clinton and everyone else in the world who told him some s(word) was going down!
“But if we withdraw they won’t leave us alone.”
So what do you suggest? Jenocide?