cabrobst: Which ones are the Nazis (I loooooove how that metaphor gets thrown around so fast-and-loose these days; really eliminates the true meaning of the term)?
If you think AZ is being harsh for merely wanting to have existing laws enforced try illegally immigrating to Mexico. There is a legal process for people wishing to work and/or live in our great country. The individuals circumventing that process should not be allowed to go to the front of the line.
Is it reasonable to suspect a person that can’t speak or understand english? It is not the color of the skin that gives away those need to be sent home. This is spring and time for spring cleaning. My bank account is cleaned out. My pantry is empty. I’m probably goint to jail because I have no money to pay health insurance. Can someone remind me what is the ‘American Dream’?
Perhaps we should remember that many of our ancestors didn’t speak English when arriving on our shores, and that it was their children who truly ‘melted into the pot’. That being said, they DID arrive here legally!
In recent years, immigrants have been subject to laws and policies that debase our country’s fundamental commitment to individual liberties and due process. These include detention for months without charges, secret hearings and ethnic profiling. Government policies that unfairly and inappropriately confuse immigration with terrorism do not make us safer.
Arizona’s governor signing SB 1070 into law, effectively made it legal to racially profile in the state. The bill requires local law enforcement to question anyone
they have “reasonable suspicion” of being undocumented. Does being brown-skinned or speaking Spanish constitute “probable cause”? Having lived in Arizona for over 5 years, I can truthfully say there are many citizens who are brown and don’t speak English that well if at all. The local police already could detain people of question under the Federal law. The difference being before they just held those people for ICE or Boarder Patrol. Now, they must hold them in city/county jails and determine their citizenship thus tying up resources they didn’t have to use before. Is it any wonder the Sheriff of Pima county opposes this law?
I see the right-wingers have continued to fail to understand it. It is not the enforcement of laws to which we object, it is the effective legalization of racial profiling, or, if you will, moving judgement away from illegal behavior to whatever the arresting officer decides is enough. This is flatly un-Constitutional. It’s part of what the original beef with England was about – arbitrary arrests!
It’s harassing citizens. And don’t tell me it’s not about racism – I have friends of Italian descent who went to Arizona and were pulled over randomly and treated coolly by locals until they discovered my friends were Italians and not Mexicans.
Bruce, you must look really white.
And still the loser leftys dont get it.
I know I’ll break in to your house eat your food take your identity use up your health insurance and call you a racist if you object. Oh yaeh I’ll also steal your job just to add insult to injury.
MM, when living in Arizona- Lake Havasu City- we had neighbors move in. The lady spoke NO English at all and depended on her husband for everything “out in the world”. She was THIRD GENERATION born in the Boston ITALIAN community- spoke NO ENGLISH!!! So it isn’t just Puerto Ricans in New York, or “Mexicans” in Arizona or California.
The Arizona law calls on using race, creed, or color, as a criterion for “reasonable suspicion”, period. The legislature is writing an update to say “no profiling by race”, but the signed law really doesn’t specify a Constitutionally viable reason to pull a person over- it does NOT require any violation of law or regulations for probable cause. AND the issue is not just proving who you are, but proving citizenship– just because you exist. Federal authority trumps states in the Constitution on this element.
Bruce, that’s simply not true that only the illegals are upset. I’ve seen statements by third- and fourth-generation Arizonans of Hispanic descent.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – I am FINE with the need to keep out illegals. And I read the bill, too – previously I quoted EXACTLY the paragraph that is a problem. Just because it forbids people to use race (now - that’s a change) does not mean it supplies law enforcement officers with any appropriate tool to use instead! By long convention and legal precedent, you judge people by their behavior, not their appearance. This law makes it hard for people to do otherwise.
No more coffee for me, thanks.
racial profiling?
NOT.
if lawbreakers are seen to be a specific ETHNIC group….(there is only ONE “race”…the children of Adam, who had all the DNA needed for varied ethnic children over time)
then how is it intelligent police work to seek and suspect
persons not of that identified ethnic group??????
We are the “melting pot” of the world, filled with diversity and where anyone has a chance at the American Dream as long as they are driven…and unemployment is below 7%, in which case only English-speaking and white-skinned folks are here legitimately. Brownies- try again once the economy has turned around.
Don’t fool yourselves into thinking that SB 1070 is targeted at criminals. If it were, it would be focused on the border
Illegal AND alien = Cheney. (Lots of illegal acts, and what planet do you REALLY think he’s from??)
The thought that our ancestral DNA may have arrived on an icy comet that made it through the atmosphere might make us all “immigrants” indeed! Anyone thinking a blastophore is already a full-fledged (hmm a pun) “human baby” shouldn’t have any problem with the concept.
I remind anyone who wants to say “There’s a legal way for them to work in this country”. The law can be changed. The Nuremburg Laws are a great example.
Here is the crux of the matter: Americans are CHEAP. We want as much as we can get for as little as we can pay. As a result, our televisions are imported from Korea (because even Japanese ones are too expensive now), our cars are assembled in Mexico, and yes, we permit our companies to hire illegal immigrants because we won’t pay the true cost of food and goods otherwise.
It is astounding how much fear there is in this country of those who are ‘outsiders’ whether because of their citizenship, their religion, their sexuality. Wait a second…those were the same fears the Nazis preyed upon…
halfabug almost 14 years ago
DITTO.
Charles Brobst Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Arrest the AZ Nazis! Defend the Constitution!
donbeco almost 14 years ago
Long term this is going to prove to have been a very bad choice by the politicians of Arizona.
JRC123 almost 14 years ago
cabrobst: Which ones are the Nazis (I loooooove how that metaphor gets thrown around so fast-and-loose these days; really eliminates the true meaning of the term)?
You add nothing to a discussion…
jonathandough almost 14 years ago
If you think AZ is being harsh for merely wanting to have existing laws enforced try illegally immigrating to Mexico. There is a legal process for people wishing to work and/or live in our great country. The individuals circumventing that process should not be allowed to go to the front of the line.
MILDOG172 almost 14 years ago
Is it reasonable to suspect a person that can’t speak or understand english? It is not the color of the skin that gives away those need to be sent home. This is spring and time for spring cleaning. My bank account is cleaned out. My pantry is empty. I’m probably goint to jail because I have no money to pay health insurance. Can someone remind me what is the ‘American Dream’?
mj1311 Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Perhaps we should remember that many of our ancestors didn’t speak English when arriving on our shores, and that it was their children who truly ‘melted into the pot’. That being said, they DID arrive here legally!
JPTewel almost 14 years ago
In recent years, immigrants have been subject to laws and policies that debase our country’s fundamental commitment to individual liberties and due process. These include detention for months without charges, secret hearings and ethnic profiling. Government policies that unfairly and inappropriately confuse immigration with terrorism do not make us safer.
Arizona’s governor signing SB 1070 into law, effectively made it legal to racially profile in the state. The bill requires local law enforcement to question anyone they have “reasonable suspicion” of being undocumented. Does being brown-skinned or speaking Spanish constitute “probable cause”? Having lived in Arizona for over 5 years, I can truthfully say there are many citizens who are brown and don’t speak English that well if at all. The local police already could detain people of question under the Federal law. The difference being before they just held those people for ICE or Boarder Patrol. Now, they must hold them in city/county jails and determine their citizenship thus tying up resources they didn’t have to use before. Is it any wonder the Sheriff of Pima county opposes this law?
Motivemagus almost 14 years ago
I see the right-wingers have continued to fail to understand it. It is not the enforcement of laws to which we object, it is the effective legalization of racial profiling, or, if you will, moving judgement away from illegal behavior to whatever the arresting officer decides is enough. This is flatly un-Constitutional. It’s part of what the original beef with England was about – arbitrary arrests! It’s harassing citizens. And don’t tell me it’s not about racism – I have friends of Italian descent who went to Arizona and were pulled over randomly and treated coolly by locals until they discovered my friends were Italians and not Mexicans. Bruce, you must look really white.
CAR73JIM almost 14 years ago
THE USA IS BEING INVADED … WHEN YOU ARE BEING INVADED YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO !!!
GJ_Jehosaphat almost 14 years ago
Marshal Law is one step closer to Martial Law. You can kiss Freedom & Liberty goodbye!
I can imagine all the gun-packing-nuts lining up to be deputized to round up the “bad” people without proper paperwork.
davesmithsit almost 14 years ago
And still the loser leftys dont get it. I know I’ll break in to your house eat your food take your identity use up your health insurance and call you a racist if you object. Oh yaeh I’ll also steal your job just to add insult to injury.
STUPID LIBS!!!!
Dtroutma almost 14 years ago
MM, when living in Arizona- Lake Havasu City- we had neighbors move in. The lady spoke NO English at all and depended on her husband for everything “out in the world”. She was THIRD GENERATION born in the Boston ITALIAN community- spoke NO ENGLISH!!! So it isn’t just Puerto Ricans in New York, or “Mexicans” in Arizona or California.
The Arizona law calls on using race, creed, or color, as a criterion for “reasonable suspicion”, period. The legislature is writing an update to say “no profiling by race”, but the signed law really doesn’t specify a Constitutionally viable reason to pull a person over- it does NOT require any violation of law or regulations for probable cause. AND the issue is not just proving who you are, but proving citizenship– just because you exist. Federal authority trumps states in the Constitution on this element.
Motivemagus almost 14 years ago
Bruce, that’s simply not true that only the illegals are upset. I’ve seen statements by third- and fourth-generation Arizonans of Hispanic descent. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – I am FINE with the need to keep out illegals. And I read the bill, too – previously I quoted EXACTLY the paragraph that is a problem. Just because it forbids people to use race (now - that’s a change) does not mean it supplies law enforcement officers with any appropriate tool to use instead! By long convention and legal precedent, you judge people by their behavior, not their appearance. This law makes it hard for people to do otherwise. No more coffee for me, thanks.
disgustedtaxpayer almost 14 years ago
racial profiling? NOT. if lawbreakers are seen to be a specific ETHNIC group….(there is only ONE “race”…the children of Adam, who had all the DNA needed for varied ethnic children over time) then how is it intelligent police work to seek and suspect persons not of that identified ethnic group??????
CRIMINAL PROFILING.
leerab78 almost 14 years ago
We are the “melting pot” of the world, filled with diversity and where anyone has a chance at the American Dream as long as they are driven…and unemployment is below 7%, in which case only English-speaking and white-skinned folks are here legitimately. Brownies- try again once the economy has turned around.
Don’t fool yourselves into thinking that SB 1070 is targeted at criminals. If it were, it would be focused on the border
CorosiveFrog Premium Member almost 14 years ago
^I must agree with you with the first two paragraphs. Calling the Arizona paranoids “Nazis” in an overstatement.
There were abortions before, there were just not numbered.
WarBush almost 14 years ago
And yet no one here can explain what an illegal immigrant looks like and how to find one without being a bigot.
WarBush almost 14 years ago
We all know what they do when they see ICE Brucey. What no one is willing to talk about is WHAT DOES AN ILLEGAL LOOK LIKE?
Dtroutma almost 14 years ago
Illegal AND alien = Cheney. (Lots of illegal acts, and what planet do you REALLY think he’s from??)
The thought that our ancestral DNA may have arrived on an icy comet that made it through the atmosphere might make us all “immigrants” indeed! Anyone thinking a blastophore is already a full-fledged (hmm a pun) “human baby” shouldn’t have any problem with the concept.
curiosity1 almost 14 years ago
I remind anyone who wants to say “There’s a legal way for them to work in this country”. The law can be changed. The Nuremburg Laws are a great example.
Here is the crux of the matter: Americans are CHEAP. We want as much as we can get for as little as we can pay. As a result, our televisions are imported from Korea (because even Japanese ones are too expensive now), our cars are assembled in Mexico, and yes, we permit our companies to hire illegal immigrants because we won’t pay the true cost of food and goods otherwise.
It is astounding how much fear there is in this country of those who are ‘outsiders’ whether because of their citizenship, their religion, their sexuality. Wait a second…those were the same fears the Nazis preyed upon…
Those who do not learn from history…