To the right, ever to the right
never to the left, forever to the right
We have gold, a market that will hold
tradition that is old, a reluctance to be bold
First you try to make facts actually important, and next thing we know, you’re trying to make politicians and pundits and “leaders” take account of reality.
Life is so much better (at least for said politicians and pundits and “leaders”) if they can ignore reality, or better yet, make up their own.
The dominant American philosophy for about a century has been Pragmatism. Not “pragmatism” with a small “p” (which basically means being practical, and nobody’s in favor of impracticality) but a vague and shifting philosophy that implicitly denies the need for philosophy.
This is why people today can accuse someone of having an ideology as if that’s a bad thing. The true Pragmatist’s response to reality is to try something, anything, to see if it works. (This should sound familiar since it is the core of both the Bush and Obama responses to the economic crisis.)
The very concept of ideology has taken a licking since Marxism (the most powerful, though utterly false, ideology in recent history) lost all credibility with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the settling of its legacy on the shoulders of s**t-holes like Cuba and North Korea.
But America was founded on a very explicit and very nearly true ideology: inherent rights, limited government, and freedom. A false ideology will mislead, but most people today have lost any idea that a true ideology is even possible. It’s not a matter of recognizing facts but of evaluating them, and that requires a deeper set of principles than just blindly staring at facts and wondering what they could possibly mean, let alone what we should do about them.
HabaneroBuck: I recently needed a copy of my birth certificate to get a passport. They did not send a copy of the original either even to me. All I got was a piece of paper with the pertinent information and a red stamp on it certifying that the information is true. What Obama produced was much better than what I got. (and I am NOT an Obama supporter)
Hey Habanero
Thanks for the heads up…I’m going to go call the State of Washington’s vital statistics department and demand that they send me a Proper birth certificate instead of the Improper one I just paid good money for…you see, the State of Washington doesn’t include the attending physician’s name either.
Too bad they didn’t consult you before sending it out.
It continues to astonish me that most of you STILL fail to realize that those who agree with me are correct, and those who disagree are, quite simply, wrong, and should change their views to coincide with mine. There - it has been pointed out clearly and concisely to everyone, so now those holding fallacious political viewpoints have no excuse…
I guess his own wife is too stupid to know where he was born also. At least twice she’s said, in public and recorded, Kenya was his homeland. Search engine it and find out for yourself.
Most of your statements are not facts - you are either intentionally lying or mindlessly repeating someone else’s lies.
Fact: Obama was born in Hawaii and DID release his birth certificate. There are copies of it online for anyone to see, including at the (non-partisan) fact-checking website FactCheck.org, which thoroughly analyzed the original (paper) document and found no evidence that it was a forgery or had been tampered with in any way. Snopes.com has also debunked the conspiracy theories regarding Obama’s citizenship.
Opinion: The birthers’ claims are, at best, an attempt to discredit a president whose politics they disagree with and, at worst, racially motivated.
Fact: The deficit and budget do not always increase. They go up and down from year to year. There have even been budget surpluses (the opposite of deficit): From 1998 to 2001, the budget had a surplus each fiscal year. Rather than the deficit, you may be thinking of the national debt, which is different but has also had periods of both increase and decrease.
Fact: Abortion does not stop a beating heart if it is performed early enough in the pregnancy. The heart does not start beating until about the sixth week of gestation. I will acknowledge that many abortions - both induced and spontaneous (miscarriage) - happen after that, but not all of them do, so your absolute statement that “Abortion literally stops a beating heart” is not the whole truth.
Of all of your “facts,” your claim about the dollar is the closest to being true. The first sentence of that statement is somewhat accurate - Although they are not actually printed on “paper” as you state (the material is 75% cotton, 25% linen), you are right that if the U.S. government collapsed, our dollar bills would be very nearly worthless. (They might retain some small value for the raw materials or - for those in mint condition - as collector’s items.) The statement about “nothing” backing it is false, though; while it is no longer specifically linked to gold or silver, you admit yourself in the previous sentence that the U.S. government backs U.S. currency.
Before you spout off such “facts” in the future, please do at least some cursory research rather than just relying on you own prejudices and the misinformation spread by those with an agenda. If you don’t know how to tell which sources are reliable and trustworthy, FactCheck.org and Snopes.com are generally good starts, and I’m sure your local librarian would be happy to help you with both online and offline research.
1776 would be the correct answer! Gold stars to those of you who got it! A nice pat on the back for those of you who tried! I’m surprised that so many people actually knew the answer.
@ HabaneroBuck: My “Certificate of Live Birth” is nothing more than a notarized photocopy of the relevant portion of a microfiche that was made of birth certificates that were turned in to my birth-state’s Dept. of Vital Statistics. I’ve used it for years to get everything from financial assistance to my voter registration card to my driver’s license. The paper original no longer exists because it was, apparently, legally disposed of after ten years as a space-saving measure. Does this mean that I’m ineligible to drive? Does it mean that I can’t vote? Does it mean I can’t get any more financial assistance or bank loans? Does it mean that I don’t exist?
The Three Great Premises of Idiot America:
(1) Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings or otherwise moves units.
(2) Any thing can be true if someone says it loudly enough.
(3) Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it.
I’m scared. i agree a lot with PSCHE from 11 hours ago. Hopefully he scans this later and find it out, cause we disagree on LOTS!
The only thing I would add is that we weren’t founded on limited government. Our peculiar democracy was founded on the compromise between the royalist extreme and the total freedom extreme. The Constitution itself is a founding document on the skill and art of compromise and negotiation. Some wanted the states to drift entirely as separate entities with no central government. Others saw a need for a powerful central force to provide leverage on trade and a system of defense for all the states. The divided forefathers ended pragmatically with a hybrid. America has been working out what it really wants to be when it grows up every since. The preposterous notion of the US having a central “founding philosophy” is based on the fact both sides have existed since then and can point to support from varied founders for all their arguments. In truth, America have always been a fluid concept and the ORIGIN of the pragmatic notion. It’s our strength and our weakness.
It is hard using facts when the public has an attention span of a fruit fly. Everything has to be under 10 words or you loose them. (Just ask John Kerry.)
The Founding Fathers almost all shared a common philosophic basis, mostly from John Locke. He is the actual source of “life, liberty, [property,] and the pursuit of happiness”. (Franklin made Jefferson take out the property part because he didn’t want to raise the issue ownership of humans.)
Trying to say that “we weren’t founded on limited government” is such a gross misrepresentation of American history that I am boggled. Without that concept, neither the Declaration nor the Constitution can be understood at all. But the value of limited government is a fact that must be denied if we are to keep marching toward a glorious socialist future. Right, comrades?
Does ANYBODY not believe that the GOP would have vetted Barack Obama’s citizenship thoroughly BEFORE the election, or that AT LEAST Hillary Clinton would have?
wndrwrthg almost 14 years ago
But that is not the American way.
LordDogmore almost 14 years ago
Who needs facts when rhetoric works oh so well.
pouncingtiger almost 14 years ago
Did you see this, Fix News/Fox Noise?
Ooops! Premium Member almost 14 years ago
But…..that is not logical.
runar almost 14 years ago
Can’t let the facts get in the way of an ideology. This reminds me of the Dogma Day parade.
grapfhics almost 14 years ago
my mind is made up, don’t confuse me with the facts.
Pacejv almost 14 years ago
Where is Mr. Spock?
autumnfire1957 almost 14 years ago
Facts are obsolete I use e-mail and attactments.
vexatron1984 almost 14 years ago
To the right, ever to the right never to the left, forever to the right We have gold, a market that will hold tradition that is old, a reluctance to be bold
A gold star to whomever can name this movie!
ImaginaryFriend almost 14 years ago
Facts = Found and Confirmed Through Surveys
jackpepper almost 14 years ago
1776
DolphinGirl78 almost 14 years ago
This comic today seems to sum up my week very well… and it’s only Wednesday…
earodrig Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Vexatron1984: For I have crossed the Rubicon! Let the bridges be burned behind me, come what may! Come what may! Commitment!
MSKing almost 14 years ago
Vexatron1984, would it be Bullworth?
afeeney almost 14 years ago
Oh, I see your clever little plan, Wiley!
First you try to make facts actually important, and next thing we know, you’re trying to make politicians and pundits and “leaders” take account of reality.
Life is so much better (at least for said politicians and pundits and “leaders”) if they can ignore reality, or better yet, make up their own.
ronaldmundy almost 14 years ago
METAPHORICAL!
sylbert almost 14 years ago
@ vexatron
Would it be the musical “1776”?
pschearer Premium Member almost 14 years ago
The dominant American philosophy for about a century has been Pragmatism. Not “pragmatism” with a small “p” (which basically means being practical, and nobody’s in favor of impracticality) but a vague and shifting philosophy that implicitly denies the need for philosophy.
This is why people today can accuse someone of having an ideology as if that’s a bad thing. The true Pragmatist’s response to reality is to try something, anything, to see if it works. (This should sound familiar since it is the core of both the Bush and Obama responses to the economic crisis.)
The very concept of ideology has taken a licking since Marxism (the most powerful, though utterly false, ideology in recent history) lost all credibility with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the settling of its legacy on the shoulders of s**t-holes like Cuba and North Korea.
But America was founded on a very explicit and very nearly true ideology: inherent rights, limited government, and freedom. A false ideology will mislead, but most people today have lost any idea that a true ideology is even possible. It’s not a matter of recognizing facts but of evaluating them, and that requires a deeper set of principles than just blindly staring at facts and wondering what they could possibly mean, let alone what we should do about them.
Nighthawks Premium Member almost 14 years ago
you BLEEPITY BLEEPING BLEEPS! DON’T confuse this issue with facts!
HabaneroBuck almost 14 years ago
Some Facts.
Barack Obama has not revealed his original birth certificate.
He has spent close to 2 million dollars in lawyer fees keeping his visa records, school records, and birth records under lock.
The deficit and budget always increase under Republicans as as well as under Democrats.
Our money is printed on paper that only has value so long as the government has the power to enforce its value. There is “nothing” backing it.
Abortion literally stops a beating heart.
There are five facts (amongst thousands), and people are going to argue about them whether Wiley likes it or not.
JanLC almost 14 years ago
HabaneroBuck: I recently needed a copy of my birth certificate to get a passport. They did not send a copy of the original either even to me. All I got was a piece of paper with the pertinent information and a red stamp on it certifying that the information is true. What Obama produced was much better than what I got. (and I am NOT an Obama supporter)
HabaneroBuck almost 14 years ago
A birth certificate has a time, attending physician, locale, and names of parents. Sorry, you’re wrong, Jan. Nobody asked for an “original.”
Nelly55 almost 14 years ago
gee Habenero……
how incredibly skillful to go back and change the newspaper archives, hospital records and all
I’m impressed
hintzy almost 14 years ago
Oh, back to what I originally wanted to say, thanks Wiley, this pretty much sums up exactly how I feel!!! :-p
thirdguy almost 14 years ago
I’m glad we are all playing nice today!!
thirdguy almost 14 years ago
I’m glad we are all playing nice today!!
lewisbower almost 14 years ago
My Senator is being forced to resign because of facts. Is that any way to run a government?
A majority, well plurality, well a lot of people say so.
lonecat almost 14 years ago
hintzy – thanks for the link – wanna bet it does any good?
Nelly55 almost 14 years ago
@lonecat
no, it won’t
their “mind” is made up
oh, my apologies to Wiley for this taking a turn in the comments.
the strip was very timely and funny as usual
rrrnay almost 14 years ago
Hey Habanero Thanks for the heads up…I’m going to go call the State of Washington’s vital statistics department and demand that they send me a Proper birth certificate instead of the Improper one I just paid good money for…you see, the State of Washington doesn’t include the attending physician’s name either.
Too bad they didn’t consult you before sending it out.
Ushindi almost 14 years ago
It continues to astonish me that most of you STILL fail to realize that those who agree with me are correct, and those who disagree are, quite simply, wrong, and should change their views to coincide with mine. There - it has been pointed out clearly and concisely to everyone, so now those holding fallacious political viewpoints have no excuse…
DesultoryPhillipic almost 14 years ago
@baslimthebegger
I guess his own wife is too stupid to know where he was born also. At least twice she’s said, in public and recorded, Kenya was his homeland. Search engine it and find out for yourself.
starguy almost 14 years ago
Barry was supposed to be Mr. Kumbaya. So, how’s that “hope and change” working out for you?
Trebor39 almost 14 years ago
We are gone and I fear we won’t be back.
kane2742 almost 14 years ago
@HabaneroBuck:
Most of your statements are not facts - you are either intentionally lying or mindlessly repeating someone else’s lies.
Fact: Obama was born in Hawaii and DID release his birth certificate. There are copies of it online for anyone to see, including at the (non-partisan) fact-checking website FactCheck.org, which thoroughly analyzed the original (paper) document and found no evidence that it was a forgery or had been tampered with in any way. Snopes.com has also debunked the conspiracy theories regarding Obama’s citizenship.
Opinion: The birthers’ claims are, at best, an attempt to discredit a president whose politics they disagree with and, at worst, racially motivated.
Fact: The deficit and budget do not always increase. They go up and down from year to year. There have even been budget surpluses (the opposite of deficit): From 1998 to 2001, the budget had a surplus each fiscal year. Rather than the deficit, you may be thinking of the national debt, which is different but has also had periods of both increase and decrease.
Fact: Abortion does not stop a beating heart if it is performed early enough in the pregnancy. The heart does not start beating until about the sixth week of gestation. I will acknowledge that many abortions - both induced and spontaneous (miscarriage) - happen after that, but not all of them do, so your absolute statement that “Abortion literally stops a beating heart” is not the whole truth.
Of all of your “facts,” your claim about the dollar is the closest to being true. The first sentence of that statement is somewhat accurate - Although they are not actually printed on “paper” as you state (the material is 75% cotton, 25% linen), you are right that if the U.S. government collapsed, our dollar bills would be very nearly worthless. (They might retain some small value for the raw materials or - for those in mint condition - as collector’s items.) The statement about “nothing” backing it is false, though; while it is no longer specifically linked to gold or silver, you admit yourself in the previous sentence that the U.S. government backs U.S. currency.
Before you spout off such “facts” in the future, please do at least some cursory research rather than just relying on you own prejudices and the misinformation spread by those with an agenda. If you don’t know how to tell which sources are reliable and trustworthy, FactCheck.org and Snopes.com are generally good starts, and I’m sure your local librarian would be happy to help you with both online and offline research.
treered almost 14 years ago
^^^^Kane Rules! Wiley, great toon, always gets me… right… about… HERE!
treered almost 14 years ago
&HabameroBuck: bush LOST in 2000, get over it! :)
mjd.kwanyin almost 14 years ago
thank you kane2742…….. and thank you wiley it is funny!
JustAnotherMichael almost 14 years ago
OK, now I wish I needed a car.
So I could have a bumper.
With this on a bumper sticker.
Mr. Wiley, you’ve outdone yourself with this one, I humbly say. Thank you!
vexatron1984 almost 14 years ago
1776 would be the correct answer! Gold stars to those of you who got it! A nice pat on the back for those of you who tried! I’m surprised that so many people actually knew the answer.
Logicman almost 14 years ago
Yeah, but as the above all points out, facts are incredibly slippery little critters. If you aren’t careful, they flop all over the place! :)
reynard61 almost 14 years ago
@ HabaneroBuck: My “Certificate of Live Birth” is nothing more than a notarized photocopy of the relevant portion of a microfiche that was made of birth certificates that were turned in to my birth-state’s Dept. of Vital Statistics. I’ve used it for years to get everything from financial assistance to my voter registration card to my driver’s license. The paper original no longer exists because it was, apparently, legally disposed of after ten years as a space-saving measure. Does this mean that I’m ineligible to drive? Does it mean that I can’t vote? Does it mean I can’t get any more financial assistance or bank loans? Does it mean that I don’t exist?
KEA almost 14 years ago
1776
KEA almost 14 years ago
The Three Great Premises of Idiot America: (1) Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings or otherwise moves units. (2) Any thing can be true if someone says it loudly enough. (3) Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it.
freeholder1 almost 14 years ago
I’m scared. i agree a lot with PSCHE from 11 hours ago. Hopefully he scans this later and find it out, cause we disagree on LOTS!
The only thing I would add is that we weren’t founded on limited government. Our peculiar democracy was founded on the compromise between the royalist extreme and the total freedom extreme. The Constitution itself is a founding document on the skill and art of compromise and negotiation. Some wanted the states to drift entirely as separate entities with no central government. Others saw a need for a powerful central force to provide leverage on trade and a system of defense for all the states. The divided forefathers ended pragmatically with a hybrid. America has been working out what it really wants to be when it grows up every since. The preposterous notion of the US having a central “founding philosophy” is based on the fact both sides have existed since then and can point to support from varied founders for all their arguments. In truth, America have always been a fluid concept and the ORIGIN of the pragmatic notion. It’s our strength and our weakness.
freeholder1 almost 14 years ago
By the way, is that Joe Friday putting up the sign?
Downundergirl almost 14 years ago
Wiley, this strip is way TOO scary! When did you meet my two yelling, arguing bosses?
…gonna’ pin this one up above my desk…
wittyvegan almost 14 years ago
It is hard using facts when the public has an attention span of a fruit fly. Everything has to be under 10 words or you loose them. (Just ask John Kerry.)
pschearer Premium Member almost 14 years ago
Freeholder: Spoken like a true Pragmatist.
The Founding Fathers almost all shared a common philosophic basis, mostly from John Locke. He is the actual source of “life, liberty, [property,] and the pursuit of happiness”. (Franklin made Jefferson take out the property part because he didn’t want to raise the issue ownership of humans.)
Trying to say that “we weren’t founded on limited government” is such a gross misrepresentation of American history that I am boggled. Without that concept, neither the Declaration nor the Constitution can be understood at all. But the value of limited government is a fact that must be denied if we are to keep marching toward a glorious socialist future. Right, comrades?
rotts almost 14 years ago
Does ANYBODY not believe that the GOP would have vetted Barack Obama’s citizenship thoroughly BEFORE the election, or that AT LEAST Hillary Clinton would have?
C’mon - it’s just another red herring.
DesultoryPhillipic almost 14 years ago
^ The simple answer would be; Why would they? It would just call McCain’s Panamanian birth into question.
The true answer would be that both parties are working toward the same goal and it was just the dems turn to play boogie man.
See my earlier comment.
Ask yourself, have we become any more free or have any of our rights become more secure. No matter who runs the government