Once again King Barry dismisses Congress and forces this predictably horrible law on Americans.Ya 500,000 people laid off their jobs and the average family will pay over $1000 more a year on electricity. Great!As if he hasn’t made things horrible enough on average American families the last 5 years.
Tom I presume you and your ilk are ready to go back to horse and buggy days and kerosene lamps. Of course with limited electricity maybe kerosene will be in short supply. No worry though we can still fall back on tallow dips, i.e. candles. You see we were scared spitless by TMI and so the greatest percentage of our electricity is coal generated, but go ahead and prove once and for everyone to see just how regressive the liberal left is in this country.
God forbid we should do anything that would hurt the billionaire Texas oil and gas constituency. However there is a bright spot of bipartisanship here. Liberals like to see high oil and gas prices because it pushes the green agenda, conservatives love it because they can raise gas and oil prices as much as they want. Obama doesn’t drive gas prices, Texas good old boys do!
I’ve noticed that many folks here rarely read the helpful links provided by others.This could be for safety reasons since it is easy to link to unhelpful virus-laden trap sites, in which case simply hover your mouse above the link to read the url; or people really don’t care to read too much.That’s why Michael gets so many flies. It’s all just honey for many (instead of detecting the poisonous barbs)
It’s touching that so many here would rather see the air get worse and worse rather than impact oil company profits. If an alternate source of power is used, it will take people to run (and therefore will create jobs). Westfield, MA, used to be the buggy whip capital of the world. Darn shame it’s not any more, but the town seems to be gradually pulling itself together. It’s possible.
Since we are playing blow by blow – let’s start with the 30% down from 40%. I won’t even try to dispute the figures but I will rely on a basic macro-economic principle. If the demand goes down then it follows that the price point will go down as well. And if coal mines are getting less $$/ton for there coal then they will have less to pay their workers meaning they will either lay some off or close less profitable mines. All your moral indignation will do nothing to feed the families of those miners that were employed in those closed mines. Not to mention the support industries that grew up around that mine: Fuel tenders, canteen workers, grocery stores, drug stores, gas stations, bars, etc. etc. You seem pretty willing to write off those people as the cost of doing YOUR dirty business of making us all safer from evil coal.
The EPA has almost always lowballed the impact of their rules and just because they say it will ONLY do $8 billion in damage to the economy is not very comforting. I won’t bore you with the multiplier affect (that I doubt they factored in) but that will do a lot of damage to the US economy and ENORMOUS damage to the communities where those miners work. But they are tools of those evil coal mines so they deserve to suffer – right?
I don’t know about YOUR main street but I look around the communities near me and I see many still unemployed. Many still struggling to regain their footing in a weak economic expansion. I’m sure they will be thrilled to wait another few years to get a job so Liberal Blowhards like you can support the President no matter what damage he does to our economic well being.
I love how you point to $55billion to $93billion as the value of avoiding premature deaths from respiratory ailments. By that argument we could double our economic well being if we simply did away with cars, planes, and many of the creature comforts to which we have all grown accustomed.Those savings don’t mean anything to me. Again you can wrap yourself up in your self-righteous fervor because it isn’t affecting you or your community but that doesn’t make what he is PROPOSING right.
If King Bigears would focus on improving the economy first; maybe we could afford to make some steps towards a greener future. But unfortunately he has followed Jimmy Carter’s cue and stated that we just need to bear it.
@Night-GauntI assume you also believe in the 200 mpg car that is just being repressed by the fuel industry.
You aren’t going to replace fossil fuels with Solar and Wind until you can get battery and Capacitor energy density to the level of fossil fuels.
We don’t have coal fired plants and natural gas plants because the fossil fuel industry is repressing alternatives. We have them because it is A safe way to produce sufficient energy to satisfy the American demand. Solar, Wind, Geothermal, etc. Can’t meet those needs right now.
There is no hooded cartel trying to deprive you of using solar energy. You are welcome to use it any time you want. But then you will find the cost of producing a watt of energy with solar and wind is about 10X the cost of doing it with fossil fuels.
I would love to put a Windmill on my farm or a set of solar panels. But the same money I would use to buy them would be better invested in the stock market and I will continue to purchase commercially made electricity and still have money left over.
The coal and natural gas boys and girls are doing their best to free us of dependence on their products, by EXPORTING MOST OF IT! Yeah, all those export terminals are indicating we’ll be paying less in the future, right, yep, of course. Idiots, just plain idiots, and the industry spreads the BS like peanut butter on Snoopy’s nose, take the pill, boy!
@Mad4U – Actually I don’t hate Obama. I hate many of his anti-American policies that provide ever increasing burdens on those who produce and grow the ranks of the unemployed with anti-job, anti-competitive approaches.
You chalk my ideals up to fox news and I could chalk your’s up to MSNBC but that doesn’t get us anywhere.
You still haven’t addressed my fundamental point which is – Where are these people now going to work? His policies will destroy their livlehoods and those of many in their community. The Foodstamp and Welfare roles are already burgeoning under his failed approaches. And what happens to their sense of self worth when they have to stand in line waiting for their handout. Is that what you and your group really want for America? You want them all dependent on the government for their very existence so you can convince them to vote the money away from their neighbors.
I don’t hate Obama but I have a strong dislike for you.
Yes, and it was a good thing to clean up gross amounts of pollution that existed then. Today, the EPA is passing regulations to try and reduce piddling tiny amounts, fractions of a fraction of a percent at a cost of billions of dollars for no appreciable return..The EPA needs to stop pushing for more regulation and start enforcing what they already have on the books. In fact, they should undo many of their recent regulations as cost ineffective.
Dtroutma almost 10 years ago
Well, they’ve been good a providing a pretty good fog for a long time, spontaneous combustion in that pile next to the bull pen.
ConserveGov almost 10 years ago
Once again King Barry dismisses Congress and forces this predictably horrible law on Americans.Ya 500,000 people laid off their jobs and the average family will pay over $1000 more a year on electricity. Great!As if he hasn’t made things horrible enough on average American families the last 5 years.
Mephistopheles almost 10 years ago
I wonder how those coal miners in appalachia will feed their families now that Obama has destroyed their livliehood with the stroke of his pen?
And I sure am looking forward to seeing the boost in my utility bill so that he can curry favor with the econuts.
Hang in there America. We only have to tolerate this doofus for another 2.5 years
Robert H. Boyer almost 10 years ago
Tom I presume you and your ilk are ready to go back to horse and buggy days and kerosene lamps. Of course with limited electricity maybe kerosene will be in short supply. No worry though we can still fall back on tallow dips, i.e. candles. You see we were scared spitless by TMI and so the greatest percentage of our electricity is coal generated, but go ahead and prove once and for everyone to see just how regressive the liberal left is in this country.
Theodore E. Lind Premium Member almost 10 years ago
God forbid we should do anything that would hurt the billionaire Texas oil and gas constituency. However there is a bright spot of bipartisanship here. Liberals like to see high oil and gas prices because it pushes the green agenda, conservatives love it because they can raise gas and oil prices as much as they want. Obama doesn’t drive gas prices, Texas good old boys do!
emptc12 almost 10 years ago
An interesting article:.http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/03/140331-carbon-capture-kemper-coal-climate/
OmqR-IV.0 almost 10 years ago
I’ve noticed that many folks here rarely read the helpful links provided by others.This could be for safety reasons since it is easy to link to unhelpful virus-laden trap sites, in which case simply hover your mouse above the link to read the url; or people really don’t care to read too much.That’s why Michael gets so many flies. It’s all just honey for many (instead of detecting the poisonous barbs)
Kip W almost 10 years ago
It’s touching that so many here would rather see the air get worse and worse rather than impact oil company profits. If an alternate source of power is used, it will take people to run (and therefore will create jobs). Westfield, MA, used to be the buggy whip capital of the world. Darn shame it’s not any more, but the town seems to be gradually pulling itself together. It’s possible.
Mephistopheles almost 10 years ago
@trusty
Since we are playing blow by blow – let’s start with the 30% down from 40%. I won’t even try to dispute the figures but I will rely on a basic macro-economic principle. If the demand goes down then it follows that the price point will go down as well. And if coal mines are getting less $$/ton for there coal then they will have less to pay their workers meaning they will either lay some off or close less profitable mines. All your moral indignation will do nothing to feed the families of those miners that were employed in those closed mines. Not to mention the support industries that grew up around that mine: Fuel tenders, canteen workers, grocery stores, drug stores, gas stations, bars, etc. etc. You seem pretty willing to write off those people as the cost of doing YOUR dirty business of making us all safer from evil coal.
The EPA has almost always lowballed the impact of their rules and just because they say it will ONLY do $8 billion in damage to the economy is not very comforting. I won’t bore you with the multiplier affect (that I doubt they factored in) but that will do a lot of damage to the US economy and ENORMOUS damage to the communities where those miners work. But they are tools of those evil coal mines so they deserve to suffer – right?
I don’t know about YOUR main street but I look around the communities near me and I see many still unemployed. Many still struggling to regain their footing in a weak economic expansion. I’m sure they will be thrilled to wait another few years to get a job so Liberal Blowhards like you can support the President no matter what damage he does to our economic well being.
I love how you point to $55billion to $93billion as the value of avoiding premature deaths from respiratory ailments. By that argument we could double our economic well being if we simply did away with cars, planes, and many of the creature comforts to which we have all grown accustomed.Those savings don’t mean anything to me. Again you can wrap yourself up in your self-righteous fervor because it isn’t affecting you or your community but that doesn’t make what he is PROPOSING right.
If King Bigears would focus on improving the economy first; maybe we could afford to make some steps towards a greener future. But unfortunately he has followed Jimmy Carter’s cue and stated that we just need to bear it.
We will be better off when he is gone.
6.6TA almost 10 years ago
@ Michael wmeTut, tut. All the experts know that the actual number is $523,724,271,455.98.The details are important.
SABRSteve almost 10 years ago
What about China and India?
Mephistopheles almost 10 years ago
@Night-GauntI assume you also believe in the 200 mpg car that is just being repressed by the fuel industry.
You aren’t going to replace fossil fuels with Solar and Wind until you can get battery and Capacitor energy density to the level of fossil fuels.
We don’t have coal fired plants and natural gas plants because the fossil fuel industry is repressing alternatives. We have them because it is A safe way to produce sufficient energy to satisfy the American demand. Solar, Wind, Geothermal, etc. Can’t meet those needs right now.
There is no hooded cartel trying to deprive you of using solar energy. You are welcome to use it any time you want. But then you will find the cost of producing a watt of energy with solar and wind is about 10X the cost of doing it with fossil fuels.
I would love to put a Windmill on my farm or a set of solar panels. But the same money I would use to buy them would be better invested in the stock market and I will continue to purchase commercially made electricity and still have money left over.
CasualBrowser almost 10 years ago
Dtroutma almost 10 years ago
The coal and natural gas boys and girls are doing their best to free us of dependence on their products, by EXPORTING MOST OF IT! Yeah, all those export terminals are indicating we’ll be paying less in the future, right, yep, of course. Idiots, just plain idiots, and the industry spreads the BS like peanut butter on Snoopy’s nose, take the pill, boy!
Mephistopheles almost 10 years ago
@Mad4U – Actually I don’t hate Obama. I hate many of his anti-American policies that provide ever increasing burdens on those who produce and grow the ranks of the unemployed with anti-job, anti-competitive approaches.
You chalk my ideals up to fox news and I could chalk your’s up to MSNBC but that doesn’t get us anywhere.
You still haven’t addressed my fundamental point which is – Where are these people now going to work? His policies will destroy their livlehoods and those of many in their community. The Foodstamp and Welfare roles are already burgeoning under his failed approaches. And what happens to their sense of self worth when they have to stand in line waiting for their handout. Is that what you and your group really want for America? You want them all dependent on the government for their very existence so you can convince them to vote the money away from their neighbors.
I don’t hate Obama but I have a strong dislike for you.
Enoki almost 10 years ago
Yes, and it was a good thing to clean up gross amounts of pollution that existed then. Today, the EPA is passing regulations to try and reduce piddling tiny amounts, fractions of a fraction of a percent at a cost of billions of dollars for no appreciable return..The EPA needs to stop pushing for more regulation and start enforcing what they already have on the books. In fact, they should undo many of their recent regulations as cost ineffective.