It’s a gamble that Obama thinks people won’t pick up on his desperation for putting off the employer mandate till 2015 when the mid-terms are over. It’s a gamble Obama will lose. People are smarter that he realizes. Yes, he’s got his low-information voters and such. But there will be still a huge backlash because individuals will still have to comply before the mid-terms.
Obama had this travesty rammed down his throat just like the rest of us, but he’s worse off – he has to get the thing off the ground.
You can call it ‘ObamaCare’ all you like, but it was an act of generosity by the GOP to their good buddies in the insurance industry. No one else will benefit, no one with any sense at all thinks they will benefit, because this is not only more of the same, it is mandated.
It wasn’t Obama’s call in any case. Congress did the deed.
Ya lets wait till after the 2014 elections and then let the fit hit the shan.Even the Dums know tat this bill is a recipe for disaster to the Aerican people, but they’d rather wait until there’s nothing anybody can do about it.
Yo Hawthorne-You are the only person I have ever heard express this opinion. Wow, either you are a political genius or a person way out in the stratosphere.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/03/Rep-Steve-King-Obama-Must-Come-To-Congress-To-Make-Changes-To-ObamaCare-“President Obama has no constitutional authority to amend his own bill”….“He has no constitutional authority to simply waive the LAW. No matter Obama’s determination to suspend his own law, only Congress can do so.”-“Two years ago, the Obama administration through a memo from a Homeland Security Department bureaucrat, declared it would not enforce our nation’s immigration laws…..Now the Obama administration, through a blog post by an assistant secretary in the Treasury Department, is declaring if won’t even enforce its own health care law on employers.” (the Big employers, not the small ones)-“We live in a Constitutional Republic. We are a nation governed by laws written by Congress, not memos and blog posts written by bureaucrats.”-Three Cheers to Congressman Steve King! A real 4th of July message! This president claims to have been a “teacher of the Constitution”….so why does he so often act to place himself above the constitutional laws?
If you guys in the States had socialized medicine like the rest of the G8 and paid 10.5% of GDP instead of 18% you would not have a deficit and perhaps would not rate 40th in the world for average life expectancy and 33rd for infant mortality.
Real “Obamacare” would have meant a single payer system, not a handout to insurance and “medical” corporate interests. It is long past time for Obama to compromise like Boehner, McConnell, Cheney and Bush, NOT AT All ON ANYTHING!
Iraq was a result of Democrats, yes, going along, with Republican “leadership”. The most egregious sections of the “Affordable Care Act” ARE those written into those 1,200 or so pages by Republicans in House and Senate that Democrats were yes, dumb enough, to allow to remain.
Cora says that single payer is not better. “Ask anyone who lives in Canada…” Okay, “Self, which is better, the US system or the Canadian system — after all, you’ve lived in both countries and have experience with both. So, Self, which is it?” And Self replies, “Are you kidding? There’s no contest. The Canadian system wins hands down. Just ask anyone who lives in Canada….”
Coraryan: Doc Canuck and others have long pointed out your claims are pure bull. I know people in England and other countries with varying forms of single payer. My daughter is a nurse, now living in New Zealand, and while she still finds some “problems” with the system, like not enough for preventative medicine, she has admitted that their system is many, many, times better than the U.S. system that she spent nearly a decade working in before their move. Yes, Kiwis also complain about their taxes, just like Americans, right up til the time the have a heart attack or major illness. Unlike the U.S., where they’re liable to die if they can’t afford care (and forget that “emergency rooms are free for everything” B.S.) or expensive insurance.
I’m amazed constantly by the right wingers, like my daughter’s father-in-law, who are anti-union and anti-government, but then, folks like him, who had union provided insurance, required a liver transplant, then quadruple bypass surgery, paid for by a combination of that union insurance, and Medicare. The bill ended up over a million dollars for his treatment, and he had about a $1,500 copay! Yes, those single payer systems really suck, just like union benefits and Medicare/Medicaid(which my mom is on).
exclaimed ignorantly, and dared “Single Payer” is not better. Ask anyone who lives in Canada or England.“
No need to ask anyone, I live in England. I’ve also lived in a country without a national health care like the NHS/single payer (South Africa) where I paid for private medical aid, and I have family now living in a country with state universal health care but with private medical insurance under-pining it (Austria).I’ve also lived in Portugal which has a severely under funded SNS (NHS) so private medical insurance is common; but despite being a poor country, there’s universal health care.
The British NHS wins hands down.
”. So you don’t know what you are talking about."
I put it to you that you are the one that does not know what you’re talking about.
Even minimal research would reveal to you that the procedure Williams received was widely available in Canada. (My wife’s cousin does this procedure in Toronto.) But you would rather spread misconceptions than learn the truth.
Very rich hypocritical Canadian politician says: “This is my heart, it’s my health, it’s my choice.”
With these words, Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams defended his decision to hop the border and go under the knife for heart surgery in Florida.
The lousy researcher went on: “Did some checking, of course, and what was ultimately done to me, the surgery I eventually got … was not offered to me in Canada,” he said.
But it is available in his home country, a point that cardiologists fervently made last night.
“It’s his body, it’s his money, hopefully, but don’t tell us the operation cannot be done here. It can be done,” said Arvind Koshal, director of cardiac surgery at the Mazankowski Alberta Heart Institute in Edmonton.
Some of the best mitral valve surgeons are in Toronto and Montreal, he said, noting that some even use robots, commonly employed in minimally invasive surgery. The wait times for cardiac surgery in Canada are relatively short, he added, saying such surgery could have been done within weeks
“Of course, whenever I have need of medical attention, I just walk into my doctor’s office without an appointment, who sends me to a specialist the next day, and I’m on the operating table within two weeks. And never pay a cent. But then, I’m special, I guess.”.So claims the Canadian Redneck.
I have no privileged access to their minds, so I can’t say why they said what they said. Here’s a guess: they were doing their best to bluff their way out of an embarrassing situation. The more important point is that opponents of single-payer health insurance continue to use this very misleading story as if it proved anything.
Another: my friend in Arkansas needed a treatment for prostate cancer. His doctor practiced in Little Rock, but my friend had to go to Mexico to get the treatment from that same U.S. doctor, because, gee, Bush was president then, but the procedure couldn’t be done in the U.S. If the profit margin isn’t established for insurance companies, big pharma, and big medical corporations, approval of treatments is extremely slow. That is one thing ACA is intended to solve, but the Republicans will screw that up too.
“Then why did Dunderdale and Williams make statements to the opposite?”
To justify themselves before their demanding electorate, forgetting that part of their electorate are medical professionals who do not take being slighted lying down and can see through their desperate self-serving fudges.They’re hypocrites, pure and simple.Their lying excuses were shot down when presented with irrefutable proof that throughout Canada these procedures are done as a matter of routine.
sigh First, Hawthorne, your original statement is a load of nonsense. If Obama didn’t like the bill, he should have sent it back to Congress. He has the power of the Veto, and we all know there weren’t enough votes in the Senate to override his Veto. You can’t give him carte blanch because you want to protect him in your mind; he signed off on this bill that has spawned more than 20,000 pages in new regulations, and hasn’t even gotten done. This is entirely around his neck.Now, on to the single-payer vs. American system. There’s Truth, Lies, and Statistics. People keep throwing around the 40th in the world, 33rd in the world, but they never identify why. What is the cause of it. Don’t blame the system, because insurance companies don’t kill people. Whether you have to pay for the care or not is moot; if there are errors in the treatment of patients, look at the errors of the doctors and hospitals/clinics. Insurance has nothing to do with our mortality rate, because doctors have to treat patients. It’s called the Hypocratic oath.Now, with that out of the way, why don’t we look at the assertion here I see among some people on the boards. We have posters saying, “We need to do it this way, because it’s the way (insert country here) does it!” Single payer in Canada, Britain, etc. Great for them. Doesn’t mean it’ll work here! That is an assumption. We, as the American Public overuse health treatments more than any other society on the planet. We have nips and tucks here, we have people who go to the ER for a sniffle. We have people getting elective surgeries that don’t need them. We have doctors performing a crap-ton of tests to prevent from getting sued, or to justify payment, or whatever other reason is out there. And it’s all because we, as a society, don’t feel the pinch of paying the bill, or because the feel the pinch of the full bill. There’s no happy medium. As a society, we would abuse a single-payer system like a rented mule. Secondly, let’s look at the hypocrisy at the same time. They think that single-payer, based on “everyone else’s” experience, will yield a better output. Does that mean we should have the same application of immigration laws? Or how about government/elections? Cuba’s apparently got an amazing health care system. Why don’t we move to a dictatorship? Why don’t we use Mexico’s immigration policies? People don’t seem to realize that each system works for that country. If it doesn’t work, change it. But modeling it after a system of another country won’t work. Was our prior system perfect? Of course not. Any fool could see that. But the PPACA is going to do nothing to address the root of our problems. As I’ve said before, our politicians have yet to identify the reasons we are having problems. Mortality rate? Why? Do we need an update in the system? Do we need to see if HIPPA needs to be reformed so we can have better communication and continuity of care? Rising costs? Do we need an easier, stream-lined reimbursement process so doctors don’t need to submit their bills four times to the government before they get reimbursed? Do we need to reform the tort law to prevent the defensive medicine that’s being practiced? Do we need to make people responsible for more of their care, so they stop abusing the system? Availability of insurance? How do we lower the costs to the end consumer? Do we allow cross-state competition? Do we allow people to form their own cooperatives, so they can buy in bulk? Do we allow for higher investment in HSA’s? Everyone seems to be barking about the symptoms, but never identifying the illness. They think a single-payer will be the magic pill that fixes the issue. But what I can tell you is that single-payer won’t fix the cost of the care. It will simply force it on those who are paying taxes. This means you will be saddling 51% of the population with 100% of the bill. Does anyone think this is going to fix the problem? If so, how?
This confirms that Obama does not have a clue of common sense or executive judgement. 5000 pages of law, witha hundreds of instructions for the HHS agency to write specific policies… What a monster….REPEAL OBAMACARE NOW!!
Don Winchester Premium Member almost 11 years ago
It’s a gamble that Obama thinks people won’t pick up on his desperation for putting off the employer mandate till 2015 when the mid-terms are over. It’s a gamble Obama will lose. People are smarter that he realizes. Yes, he’s got his low-information voters and such. But there will be still a huge backlash because individuals will still have to comply before the mid-terms.
Hawthorne almost 11 years ago
Obama had this travesty rammed down his throat just like the rest of us, but he’s worse off – he has to get the thing off the ground.
You can call it ‘ObamaCare’ all you like, but it was an act of generosity by the GOP to their good buddies in the insurance industry. No one else will benefit, no one with any sense at all thinks they will benefit, because this is not only more of the same, it is mandated.
It wasn’t Obama’s call in any case. Congress did the deed.
ConserveGov almost 11 years ago
Ya lets wait till after the 2014 elections and then let the fit hit the shan.Even the Dums know tat this bill is a recipe for disaster to the Aerican people, but they’d rather wait until there’s nothing anybody can do about it.
carandken almost 11 years ago
Yo Hawthorne-You are the only person I have ever heard express this opinion. Wow, either you are a political genius or a person way out in the stratosphere.
lonecat almost 11 years ago
Rather than trading insults, why not work for a better system — single payer.
disgustedtaxpayer almost 11 years ago
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/03/Rep-Steve-King-Obama-Must-Come-To-Congress-To-Make-Changes-To-ObamaCare-“President Obama has no constitutional authority to amend his own bill”….“He has no constitutional authority to simply waive the LAW. No matter Obama’s determination to suspend his own law, only Congress can do so.”-“Two years ago, the Obama administration through a memo from a Homeland Security Department bureaucrat, declared it would not enforce our nation’s immigration laws…..Now the Obama administration, through a blog post by an assistant secretary in the Treasury Department, is declaring if won’t even enforce its own health care law on employers.” (the Big employers, not the small ones)-“We live in a Constitutional Republic. We are a nation governed by laws written by Congress, not memos and blog posts written by bureaucrats.”-Three Cheers to Congressman Steve King! A real 4th of July message! This president claims to have been a “teacher of the Constitution”….so why does he so often act to place himself above the constitutional laws?
bgarner almost 11 years ago
If you guys in the States had socialized medicine like the rest of the G8 and paid 10.5% of GDP instead of 18% you would not have a deficit and perhaps would not rate 40th in the world for average life expectancy and 33rd for infant mortality.
Dtroutma almost 11 years ago
Real “Obamacare” would have meant a single payer system, not a handout to insurance and “medical” corporate interests. It is long past time for Obama to compromise like Boehner, McConnell, Cheney and Bush, NOT AT All ON ANYTHING!
Iraq was a result of Democrats, yes, going along, with Republican “leadership”. The most egregious sections of the “Affordable Care Act” ARE those written into those 1,200 or so pages by Republicans in House and Senate that Democrats were yes, dumb enough, to allow to remain.
trm almost 11 years ago
The cartoon is anatomically incorrect. The employer mandate, like all of Obozocare, is inserted anally.
lonecat almost 11 years ago
Cora says that single payer is not better. “Ask anyone who lives in Canada…” Okay, “Self, which is better, the US system or the Canadian system — after all, you’ve lived in both countries and have experience with both. So, Self, which is it?” And Self replies, “Are you kidding? There’s no contest. The Canadian system wins hands down. Just ask anyone who lives in Canada….”
Dtroutma almost 11 years ago
Coraryan: Doc Canuck and others have long pointed out your claims are pure bull. I know people in England and other countries with varying forms of single payer. My daughter is a nurse, now living in New Zealand, and while she still finds some “problems” with the system, like not enough for preventative medicine, she has admitted that their system is many, many, times better than the U.S. system that she spent nearly a decade working in before their move. Yes, Kiwis also complain about their taxes, just like Americans, right up til the time the have a heart attack or major illness. Unlike the U.S., where they’re liable to die if they can’t afford care (and forget that “emergency rooms are free for everything” B.S.) or expensive insurance.
I’m amazed constantly by the right wingers, like my daughter’s father-in-law, who are anti-union and anti-government, but then, folks like him, who had union provided insurance, required a liver transplant, then quadruple bypass surgery, paid for by a combination of that union insurance, and Medicare. The bill ended up over a million dollars for his treatment, and he had about a $1,500 copay! Yes, those single payer systems really suck, just like union benefits and Medicare/Medicaid(which my mom is on).
OmqR-IV.0 almost 11 years ago
exclaimed ignorantly, and dared “Single Payer” is not better. Ask anyone who lives in Canada or England.“
No need to ask anyone, I live in England. I’ve also lived in a country without a national health care like the NHS/single payer (South Africa) where I paid for private medical aid, and I have family now living in a country with state universal health care but with private medical insurance under-pining it (Austria).I’ve also lived in Portugal which has a severely under funded SNS (NHS) so private medical insurance is common; but despite being a poor country, there’s universal health care.
The British NHS wins hands down.
”. So you don’t know what you are talking about."
I put it to you that you are the one that does not know what you’re talking about.
lonecat almost 11 years ago
Even minimal research would reveal to you that the procedure Williams received was widely available in Canada. (My wife’s cousin does this procedure in Toronto.) But you would rather spread misconceptions than learn the truth.
OmqR-IV.0 almost 11 years ago
Very rich hypocritical Canadian politician says: “This is my heart, it’s my health, it’s my choice.”
With these words, Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams defended his decision to hop the border and go under the knife for heart surgery in Florida.
The lousy researcher went on: “Did some checking, of course, and what was ultimately done to me, the surgery I eventually got … was not offered to me in Canada,” he said.
But it is available in his home country, a point that cardiologists fervently made last night.
“It’s his body, it’s his money, hopefully, but don’t tell us the operation cannot be done here. It can be done,” said Arvind Koshal, director of cardiac surgery at the Mazankowski Alberta Heart Institute in Edmonton.
Some of the best mitral valve surgeons are in Toronto and Montreal, he said, noting that some even use robots, commonly employed in minimally invasive surgery. The wait times for cardiac surgery in Canada are relatively short, he added, saying such surgery could have been done within weeks
SAStiner almost 11 years ago
“Of course, whenever I have need of medical attention, I just walk into my doctor’s office without an appointment, who sends me to a specialist the next day, and I’m on the operating table within two weeks. And never pay a cent. But then, I’m special, I guess.”.So claims the Canadian Redneck.
lonecat almost 11 years ago
I have no privileged access to their minds, so I can’t say why they said what they said. Here’s a guess: they were doing their best to bluff their way out of an embarrassing situation. The more important point is that opponents of single-payer health insurance continue to use this very misleading story as if it proved anything.
Dtroutma almost 11 years ago
Another: my friend in Arkansas needed a treatment for prostate cancer. His doctor practiced in Little Rock, but my friend had to go to Mexico to get the treatment from that same U.S. doctor, because, gee, Bush was president then, but the procedure couldn’t be done in the U.S. If the profit margin isn’t established for insurance companies, big pharma, and big medical corporations, approval of treatments is extremely slow. That is one thing ACA is intended to solve, but the Republicans will screw that up too.
OmqR-IV.0 almost 11 years ago
“Then why did Dunderdale and Williams make statements to the opposite?”
To justify themselves before their demanding electorate, forgetting that part of their electorate are medical professionals who do not take being slighted lying down and can see through their desperate self-serving fudges.They’re hypocrites, pure and simple.Their lying excuses were shot down when presented with irrefutable proof that throughout Canada these procedures are done as a matter of routine.
lonecat almost 11 years ago
In other words, you’re admitting that your access to health care in the US isn’t as good as mine in Canada.
Wraithkin almost 11 years ago
sigh First, Hawthorne, your original statement is a load of nonsense. If Obama didn’t like the bill, he should have sent it back to Congress. He has the power of the Veto, and we all know there weren’t enough votes in the Senate to override his Veto. You can’t give him carte blanch because you want to protect him in your mind; he signed off on this bill that has spawned more than 20,000 pages in new regulations, and hasn’t even gotten done. This is entirely around his neck.Now, on to the single-payer vs. American system. There’s Truth, Lies, and Statistics. People keep throwing around the 40th in the world, 33rd in the world, but they never identify why. What is the cause of it. Don’t blame the system, because insurance companies don’t kill people. Whether you have to pay for the care or not is moot; if there are errors in the treatment of patients, look at the errors of the doctors and hospitals/clinics. Insurance has nothing to do with our mortality rate, because doctors have to treat patients. It’s called the Hypocratic oath.Now, with that out of the way, why don’t we look at the assertion here I see among some people on the boards. We have posters saying, “We need to do it this way, because it’s the way (insert country here) does it!” Single payer in Canada, Britain, etc. Great for them. Doesn’t mean it’ll work here! That is an assumption. We, as the American Public overuse health treatments more than any other society on the planet. We have nips and tucks here, we have people who go to the ER for a sniffle. We have people getting elective surgeries that don’t need them. We have doctors performing a crap-ton of tests to prevent from getting sued, or to justify payment, or whatever other reason is out there. And it’s all because we, as a society, don’t feel the pinch of paying the bill, or because the feel the pinch of the full bill. There’s no happy medium. As a society, we would abuse a single-payer system like a rented mule. Secondly, let’s look at the hypocrisy at the same time. They think that single-payer, based on “everyone else’s” experience, will yield a better output. Does that mean we should have the same application of immigration laws? Or how about government/elections? Cuba’s apparently got an amazing health care system. Why don’t we move to a dictatorship? Why don’t we use Mexico’s immigration policies? People don’t seem to realize that each system works for that country. If it doesn’t work, change it. But modeling it after a system of another country won’t work. Was our prior system perfect? Of course not. Any fool could see that. But the PPACA is going to do nothing to address the root of our problems. As I’ve said before, our politicians have yet to identify the reasons we are having problems. Mortality rate? Why? Do we need an update in the system? Do we need to see if HIPPA needs to be reformed so we can have better communication and continuity of care? Rising costs? Do we need an easier, stream-lined reimbursement process so doctors don’t need to submit their bills four times to the government before they get reimbursed? Do we need to reform the tort law to prevent the defensive medicine that’s being practiced? Do we need to make people responsible for more of their care, so they stop abusing the system? Availability of insurance? How do we lower the costs to the end consumer? Do we allow cross-state competition? Do we allow people to form their own cooperatives, so they can buy in bulk? Do we allow for higher investment in HSA’s? Everyone seems to be barking about the symptoms, but never identifying the illness. They think a single-payer will be the magic pill that fixes the issue. But what I can tell you is that single-payer won’t fix the cost of the care. It will simply force it on those who are paying taxes. This means you will be saddling 51% of the population with 100% of the bill. Does anyone think this is going to fix the problem? If so, how?
grh9447 almost 11 years ago
This confirms that Obama does not have a clue of common sense or executive judgement. 5000 pages of law, witha hundreds of instructions for the HHS agency to write specific policies… What a monster….REPEAL OBAMACARE NOW!!