Lisa Benson for June 01, 2013

Don’t know why the Democrat party is so dead-set against harvesting the bountiful sources of energy with which we are so richly blessed. Their priorities seem to be something about worshiping mother earth and lambasting business and denigrating hard-working Americans. Too bad they seem to outnumber and out-vote the rest of us who have enough sense to realize that our country is in a death-spiral and are trying to fix the real problems out there.

Thousands of acres of rangeland in Montana and Utah, among other areas, were poisoned by improperly controlled fracking fluids. Likewise miles of streams were poisoned.

Yes, in SOME areas, “fracking” is suitable, but since ’49 many, many, “accidents” have happened. It needs to be strictly regulated, and NOT by regulations like we have now that were written by the “energy” comanies. Among other things, declaring the content of fracking fluids as "Proprietary"" should stop and aLL contents should be released in EIS, EA, or categorical exclusions allowing the practice.

Democrats-The Party of Unemployment.

It’s astonishing to see how much faith Republicans/Fox “news” viewers have that multinational corporations will protect the environment or the people living in it. -Astonishing and disgusting.

Not to worry. There will be plenty of jobs cleaning up the environmental aftermath. Unpaid jobs, but jobs nonetheless.

So, without the profit motive, we would still be living in the Middle Ages. That seems to be what the Dems want. A new Feudal System, with Barack Obama as king.

In the movie, Erin Brokavich, there’s a scene where the lawyers representing the polluters (job creators) lean forward to get a drink of water. Erin says,“Thirsty? I had that water brought in special. It’s from” i can’t recall the town that had so many die, miscarry, and become ill from the toxins that leaked into the water supply.To all of you who want to put jobs in front of safe water and food, YOU drink that water. Let YOUR children drink that water. But don’t force others to do so.What I want to know is this, can the fracking be done with non toxic chemicals? Can it be done without forcing oil and gas into water sources? And why are the companies unwilling to tell the gov’t what is IN the liquids used for fracking?I’m beginning to think that “job creators” are like Santa Claus and leprechauns. Mythological creatures with the power to grant gifts, but don’t really exist. Of course, if unemployment went down to 5% or less, that would make the President look good and the GOP does NOT want that to happen… even if it would save Americans and improve our economy.If I were to send five gallons of water from near a fracking site, do you think our congressmen would be willing to drink it? or would they have me arrested for trying to poison them?Either could happen.Sadly, C.

“We are doing what we have been doing which is shipping it by rail. " I didn’t realize that you are Canadian, Harley. Maybe you should build your own pipeline through the Rockies to get your oil to a port to export it.

There’s an interesting article in this month’s Atlantic, titled “What If We Never Run Out of Oil?” — mostly about methane hydrate, which seems to be very abundant. But the article also includes some discussion of fracking. I’m not in a position to evaluate it, but I found it very interesting. Did anyone else read it?

“Because money grows on trees, and we’ll have no problem paying for the Stealth Socialism that the Democrats keep pushing.”Yeah! Those commie Democrats keep forcing socialism on us like public roads and schools, police and fire protection, and municipal water and sewage treatment. Just who do they think they are?!?!?

If you have an open mind go to fracknation.com

-corrected for ya…

Here are a few problems with Fracking as a solution

1. No value is created, unless capital is invested in other industries you are exchanging an asset for a lesser value in cost

2. Health concerns, for the thousands of chemicals used in fracking most become toxic at about .3 ppm. the question of sediment as wells is what is trying to be answered, and that is ignoring the risk of pockets or thermal vents

3. The “boom” is looking more towards being an implosion. Every country is right now telling its own people the same thing in that by fracking they can become energy exporters, in Europe, Asia, Canada.

The countries that havn’t considered it are eithera) energy emmiratesb) too dirt poor to develop it and thus unlikely consumers

Russia. with a massive uninhabited area is a perfect candidate. Heck with lax environmental controls it seems likely it will be a major producer.

For those that don’t see the issue with this, when everyone already has something in excess quantity the ability to sell it goes through the floor, along with the price

You’re referring to someone turning on water and lighting it on fire. Funny thing: That’s already been proven to be a stunt prop. The water already contained high levels of Methane before fracking had been done. They just did that to trump up their story.As for toxic… I’ve heard of some mishaps, yes. But most of those stories out there involving “poisoning” of the wells are trumped up and overstated.

Last time I looked, nobody was sending me a billion dollar bill to develop the Solyndra of fracking.

Also, I’m curious why GWB’s Texas ranch uses renewable geothermal power, but Al Gore sticks to electric and gas (coming out of those nasty frack wells)?

Ima: hate to break it to you, but over 30 years working with “industry” in mining, and drilling for resources, as a lands adjudicator reviewing leases, as well as Environmental Coordinator writing those documents or reviewing other people’s work for accuracy, trumps your idiotic repetition of “evidence from Rush”. BTW, also had friends and family in the oil and gas business, going back over 50 years.

BTW: internal documents noting spills and “accidents” file with federal agencies are NOT always made public, and in fact, over time, many were prohibited from being made public by those same “proprietary and confidential” rules applied to mining and mineral leasing.

We know plenty about it. Flammable water for one.

Thank you for the link, Harley.I read Mr. Fumento’s article and saw a link to Ms. Brockovich’s response. Without taking more time, it is hard to choose between two reasoned and well stated comments. It would require I do more research on Chromium 6 and other factors.The fact that the people of Hinkley did not suffer the high degree of symptoms until after the corporation was built and the waste accumulated makes me more sympathetic to them than to a corporation who, like very many corporations, cares more about profit and market share than peoples’ lives.I used Brockavich as an example for why it is important for us to know what companies are putting into our water and food supplies. I do appreciate your effort to educate me and the tone in which you did so. I wish we could have coffee at a wi fi friendly shop and play dueling computers on this and other issues.Take care neighbor, and again… thank you.Respectfully,C.

Solar and wind power alone cannot supply the energy needs of 310 million people. The largest wind turbine farm cannot support a city of 50,000. There are alternative sources of energy, for example, using the heat from the ground underneath a home, that offers greater promise.

Have you seen a wind turbine farm? It is an eyesore!

They aren’t telling, either. Unless you believe them when they tell you that money is all.

Funny, Isn’t it, that ‘primitive’ people’s reserve their most severe punishments for those who poison wells. We claim to be civilised, but we subsidize those who poison our wells.

Go figure.

More uninformed bigotry. dopers and criminals ( other than politicians and corporate CEOs), rarely vote. Even the poor often don’t vote, and many of the employed have problems getting off work to vote.

I have no doubt you fervently believe all you write, but your beliefs don’t change reality.

Onguard: I realize you’re lazy and don’t believe any facts, but start by just googling “fraking fluid leak”, and go from there, incidents go way back. Also from a number of years ago, chedk back on High Country News stories about the surface spills I was speaking of that poisoned grasslands and streams.

AS I’ve noted, some fracking, in some strata, CAN be done safely, but the industry record totally sucks, actually.

Thanks for another great post. There have been a few here tonight; it’s been a pleasure reading more than several.

Mine may have been violated by my Kindle’s sense of what one ought to write; I apoligize for any such eccentricity in those posts.

Well, no. There really are places where the wind does always blow (gorges, canyons), most of which already have bridges. Wind generators would seem to be less intrusive than dams, and we are rigorously protecting our dams.

There are places where the sun does shine, on average 300+ days a year. Those places are clearly ideal, but current technology solar cells return a substantial percentage of their capacity even in overcast.

There are other ways to obtain heat, too. There is more than one way to do almost anything. Sometimes a particular way is clearly better, sometimes we get stuck on something because it’s what we know. It’s rare for there to be no alternative at all though.

See, if what you are saying is true, then we really do need to rein in the lobbyists, and also the NPOs, too many of which are scams or extremist or both.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it ;-)

^^Hawthorne: it was interesting to see what happened at nightfall with both ASARCO and KENNICOT smelters in Arizona. (It was a while ago we lived near them) Scrubbers DO add cost to keep maintained and “cleaned”, turning ’em off at night saves quite a bit.

That is absolutely right! Why, in that case, hasn’t the GOP generated any jobs?

Did they give up without even trying? But that can’t be it, since they seemed eager to squash any jobs bill they saw.

But … jobs are exactly what we need.