I absolutely hate it when I see some poor toddler or baby strapped into some asinine shirt spouting their parents politics. It fills me with revulsion.
Quoth Achewood: “You’re teaching the future to suck and the children to swallow!”
This is not a question of patriotism. This is a question of human decency. It IS patriotic to question the aggressive and war like stance of a state, but if you measure your patriotism by means of denying millions of people access to basic health care at an affordable cost just because you don’t want to see your tax dollars helping others, then you are not patriotic, you are just plain selfish.
Some on these lists throw the terms “left” and “right” around rather freely. I’m not sure that the labels left and right accurately describe the political landscape nowadays, but there is a tradition of political and social progress that is worth keeping in mind. It includes, for example, the growth of democratic institutions such as parliaments and legislatures; limitation of the power of the executive (kings or presidents or whatever); extension of the right to vote; freedom of religious belief and affiliation and also limitation of the power of religion in non-religious areas of life; child-labor laws; the eight-hour day campaigns; the right of labor to organize (I know this may seem controversial, but my grandfather died because there was no union in the mine he worked in, so I’m not giving this up); compulsory education; consumer protection laws; the abolition of slavery; the civil rights movement; the movement for equal rights for women and men; various movements against wars and against weapons of mass destruction. I don’t mean this as a complete list, but it’s a start. Nor do I mean to suggest that we have fully achieved these goals everywhere today, but in many places most of these are now taken for granted, and in other places they can serve as a standard for judgment. (I also know that this list could look somewhat Eurocentric, but in another context I would argue that it’s not.) Most of these goals were considered leftist when they were proposed. To that extent, I am proud to say that I identify myself with the traditions of the left. But the left is not homogeneous. For instance, even as a leftist I favor individual effort and responsibility, and I’m also somewhat suspicious of large centralized government. At times the power of the central government is the best safeguard of the individual, but at times the power of the central government is dangerous. And the left dictatorships have been just as bad as the right dictatorships.) Each situation needs to be examined in its particularity. The current great item on the agenda of the left, on the agenda of the world, is care of the environment. But here’s one place where the left/right division should disappear. We all, left and right and center, should understand that we need a world to live in.
“Only somewhat related to this comic, but…
I absolutely hate it when I see some poor toddler or baby strapped into some asinine shirt spouting their parents politics. It fills me with revulsion.”
Filled with revulsion? Ah comeon toaster, a bit melodramatic huh? Guess I am losing the passion, getting old, but all I can muster for inane (as I might see it anway) one liners is an eyeroll. for you..~wink~
“This is not a question of patriotism. This is a question of human decency. It IS patriotic to question the aggressive and war like stance of a state, but if you measure your patriotism by means of denying millions of people access to basic health care at an affordable cost just because you don’t want to see your tax dollars helping others, then you are not patriotic, you are just plain selfish.”
Nonsense. But lets take it from the sublime to the ridiculous. I shall speak in your behalf on one point. Better blog back to correct if I am off base. I think I am fair to say you feel EVERYONE is entitled to this governmental largesse, entitlement are you not? Then how about this, all the payers of this (you know very well, the government produces no capital to fund anything, but business does, right?) Lets say the payers ALL revolt, cease to work, thus NO more funding but ALL drinking from the trough of ‘fellowship and sharing’. How do YOU decide who MUST work for the good of fellow man, hmmmmm?
Once the left accepts that there is nothing wrong with labor for our efforts and renumeration for these efforts (that is called wages, profit, money, whatever you chose to call it)
If you ever want to know how to cure health care deficiencies, ask me, I shall take the time to tell you exactly how it could be done.
Wait, who exactly on the left called the “tea party” protesters unpatriotic? From what little I followed they were called a lot of things, but I don’t think patriotism came into the mix.
What I see from time to time is a left leaning comentator, an MSNBC type, for example, pointing out the irony, nay hypocrisy, in the right’s crocidilian tears.
Show me an example of “liberal repression” of patriotic disagreement.
The Republicans voted against EVEN DEBATING the issue and working toward resolution in the public interest!
Most of the arguments I hear against a health care program are based on nearly impossible ignorance of the facts, which is exactly what the media, and corporate controllers want.
When parents deny medical treatment to their child, both left and right step up and say, “How can they kill their own child?” That reflects a different turn on religious involvement in society. Actually, many anti-abortion folks have cried out for their right to kill their child for the parent’s “religious freedom”.
Right, modern medicine is science, and therefore not to be trusted.
When I see some protestors, I wonder what the physiologic, and psychologic, genetics is for stupidity.
I can understand “religious faith”, and “stupidity”, it doesn’t mean I have to accept it as rule of law in a “free” society.
“Actually, many anti-abortion folks have cried out for their right to kill their child for the parent’s “religious freedom”.
Well, if you are suggesting that some people opt for NOT using certain accepted medical procedures, causes them to “kill their child”. No dtroutma. Plunging a knife into their childs heart to purge it of the possession of the devil would constitute killing based on religion. For instance, would it be fair to say, if you were a neighbor of Ryan White’s family, that you would be given pause before you received a blood transfusion? Trust me when I say three years ago, I found I needed a transfusion I was very much against! I told the doctor to give me a glucose drip and I would be “out of here”. (had to work the next day you see) He said, sorry, you MUST have a transfusion. Apparently three pints of the blood stabilized me from my blood loss from internal bleeding.
Now I will be unkind.
You said
“When I see some protestors, I wonder what the physiologic, and psychologic, genetics is for stupidity.”
When you say such nonsense, you need look no further than your mirror my friend.
(Irony warnig:) Yeah, there are lots of African-Americans at those protests. Let’s not pretend that these protests represent all groups. That’s as bad as when Sean Hannity substituted film from an earlier protest rally to make his look larger. see http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-november-10-2009/sean-hannity-uses-glenn-beck-s-protest-footage
whhaymd, and Hannity even admitted it the next day! What made it even more obvious is that the GOP rally against healthcare took place on an overcast Nov. day, and the footage of the Beck rally that they spliced into it took place on a sunny Sept. day.
Hannity said it was a mistake, but like the other times Fox blatantly and dishonestly edited and spliced footage, he failed to explain how footage of an event in Sept. accidentally gets mixed up with footage from November.
When Fox News (not commentary) spliced in a clip of Joe Biden to represent something said at the time, they had to go back nine months to distort something Biden said during the campaign and make it seem like he said it at the time. Biden’s nine-month-old footage was actually quoting McCain.
The anchor apologized the next day too, also simply saying it was a mistake. No explanation of how nine-month-old footage accidentally gets edited into current news story, though.
so-called Roger: all of a sudden I hear all these libs saying how unpatriotic it is to question government and we must all support those in power!
You must hang out in strange places, because I haven’t heard a single person anywhere say such a demented thing. Rather, I hear liberals and moderates actively hoping the far right dements like yourself would engage in civil discourse using facts and logic. How perverse you must be … sort of like _RogOregon _whose demented rantings got him kicked off.
Thanks for your reply to my comment. I don’t have much hope that any minds will be changed by any comments posted here, so mine are no more wasted than those of anyone else. I limit myself to one a week (except for replies). This is not the best forum for reasoned debate. I worry that this medium allows people to show their worst, rather than their best. I don’t claim that I am always right, and I would welcome correction. But I do try to show that it’s possible to comment without insulting others. I respect honest conservatives, because I think their goals are well intentioned, even if I think their methods won’t get us where we need to go.
I share the concern that the government is getting too deeply in debt, though in the short term that debt may be necessary. (Liberal economic policy has a Biblical basis, after all, in the story of the seven fat years and the seven lean years. The problem is that in the seven fat years we got into too much debt, so when the seven lean years came around we didn’t have a reserve.)
johndh123, I am almost exhausted by your stupidity. If people dont work and there is no money, then people dont get anything. That is totally obvious and only an idiot would take a social issue and stretch it out to its extreme only to use the unlikely scenario as a means of negating the original issue.
The whole reason why i am in favour of passing around some healthcare for people is because I know, from history, from sociology, from anthropology and even economics that if you do not provide for those less fortunate in the society they will revolt. Which is why America has some of the worst crime rates in the western world. America, thanks to its tight policies is just like the rest of south america. A minute number of uber rich controling the interests of the many. It is only through the establishment of a large middle class that a society and more importantly democracy can function. Now if anyone would like to get into a debate with me on that, feel free and I will gladly partake.
toasteroven over 14 years ago
Only somewhat related to this comic, but…
I absolutely hate it when I see some poor toddler or baby strapped into some asinine shirt spouting their parents politics. It fills me with revulsion.
Quoth Achewood: “You’re teaching the future to suck and the children to swallow!”
a.c.d over 14 years ago
This is not a question of patriotism. This is a question of human decency. It IS patriotic to question the aggressive and war like stance of a state, but if you measure your patriotism by means of denying millions of people access to basic health care at an affordable cost just because you don’t want to see your tax dollars helping others, then you are not patriotic, you are just plain selfish.
HUMPHRIES over 14 years ago
Rogey, did you think your post up all by yourself ?
NoFearPup over 14 years ago
I like Roger’s post. You Lib-thugs ARE un-patriotic…and liars.
lonecat over 14 years ago
Some on these lists throw the terms “left” and “right” around rather freely. I’m not sure that the labels left and right accurately describe the political landscape nowadays, but there is a tradition of political and social progress that is worth keeping in mind. It includes, for example, the growth of democratic institutions such as parliaments and legislatures; limitation of the power of the executive (kings or presidents or whatever); extension of the right to vote; freedom of religious belief and affiliation and also limitation of the power of religion in non-religious areas of life; child-labor laws; the eight-hour day campaigns; the right of labor to organize (I know this may seem controversial, but my grandfather died because there was no union in the mine he worked in, so I’m not giving this up); compulsory education; consumer protection laws; the abolition of slavery; the civil rights movement; the movement for equal rights for women and men; various movements against wars and against weapons of mass destruction. I don’t mean this as a complete list, but it’s a start. Nor do I mean to suggest that we have fully achieved these goals everywhere today, but in many places most of these are now taken for granted, and in other places they can serve as a standard for judgment. (I also know that this list could look somewhat Eurocentric, but in another context I would argue that it’s not.) Most of these goals were considered leftist when they were proposed. To that extent, I am proud to say that I identify myself with the traditions of the left. But the left is not homogeneous. For instance, even as a leftist I favor individual effort and responsibility, and I’m also somewhat suspicious of large centralized government. At times the power of the central government is the best safeguard of the individual, but at times the power of the central government is dangerous. And the left dictatorships have been just as bad as the right dictatorships.) Each situation needs to be examined in its particularity. The current great item on the agenda of the left, on the agenda of the world, is care of the environment. But here’s one place where the left/right division should disappear. We all, left and right and center, should understand that we need a world to live in.
charliekane over 14 years ago
Dearest Roger, Pup and ‘Nan:
Is it a trait among your ilk to impugn the patriotism and morals of those who happen to disagree with you?
Do deficient memory and ideological purity go together?
Please see:
http://www.slate.com/id/2106109/
Note particularly the latter half of the article.
johndh123 over 14 years ago
toasteroven said, about 9 hours ago
“Only somewhat related to this comic, but… I absolutely hate it when I see some poor toddler or baby strapped into some asinine shirt spouting their parents politics. It fills me with revulsion.”
Filled with revulsion? Ah comeon toaster, a bit melodramatic huh? Guess I am losing the passion, getting old, but all I can muster for inane (as I might see it anway) one liners is an eyeroll. for you..~wink~
johndh123 over 14 years ago
HUMPHRIES said, about 7 hours ago
“Rogey, did you think your post up all by yourself ?”
And Humphries, what if he did? Did you have a counterpoint?
johndh123 over 14 years ago
a.c.d said, about 7 hours ago
“This is not a question of patriotism. This is a question of human decency. It IS patriotic to question the aggressive and war like stance of a state, but if you measure your patriotism by means of denying millions of people access to basic health care at an affordable cost just because you don’t want to see your tax dollars helping others, then you are not patriotic, you are just plain selfish.”
Nonsense. But lets take it from the sublime to the ridiculous. I shall speak in your behalf on one point. Better blog back to correct if I am off base. I think I am fair to say you feel EVERYONE is entitled to this governmental largesse, entitlement are you not? Then how about this, all the payers of this (you know very well, the government produces no capital to fund anything, but business does, right?) Lets say the payers ALL revolt, cease to work, thus NO more funding but ALL drinking from the trough of ‘fellowship and sharing’. How do YOU decide who MUST work for the good of fellow man, hmmmmm? Once the left accepts that there is nothing wrong with labor for our efforts and renumeration for these efforts (that is called wages, profit, money, whatever you chose to call it) If you ever want to know how to cure health care deficiencies, ask me, I shall take the time to tell you exactly how it could be done.
4uk4ata over 14 years ago
Wait, who exactly on the left called the “tea party” protesters unpatriotic? From what little I followed they were called a lot of things, but I don’t think patriotism came into the mix.
charliekane over 14 years ago
‘Nan, no, not at all. But I speak for myself.
What I see from time to time is a left leaning comentator, an MSNBC type, for example, pointing out the irony, nay hypocrisy, in the right’s crocidilian tears.
Show me an example of “liberal repression” of patriotic disagreement.
Dtroutma over 14 years ago
The Republicans voted against EVEN DEBATING the issue and working toward resolution in the public interest!
Most of the arguments I hear against a health care program are based on nearly impossible ignorance of the facts, which is exactly what the media, and corporate controllers want.
When parents deny medical treatment to their child, both left and right step up and say, “How can they kill their own child?” That reflects a different turn on religious involvement in society. Actually, many anti-abortion folks have cried out for their right to kill their child for the parent’s “religious freedom”.
Right, modern medicine is science, and therefore not to be trusted.
When I see some protestors, I wonder what the physiologic, and psychologic, genetics is for stupidity.
I can understand “religious faith”, and “stupidity”, it doesn’t mean I have to accept it as rule of law in a “free” society.
johndh123 over 14 years ago
dtroutma
“Actually, many anti-abortion folks have cried out for their right to kill their child for the parent’s “religious freedom”.
Well, if you are suggesting that some people opt for NOT using certain accepted medical procedures, causes them to “kill their child”. No dtroutma. Plunging a knife into their childs heart to purge it of the possession of the devil would constitute killing based on religion. For instance, would it be fair to say, if you were a neighbor of Ryan White’s family, that you would be given pause before you received a blood transfusion? Trust me when I say three years ago, I found I needed a transfusion I was very much against! I told the doctor to give me a glucose drip and I would be “out of here”. (had to work the next day you see) He said, sorry, you MUST have a transfusion. Apparently three pints of the blood stabilized me from my blood loss from internal bleeding. Now I will be unkind. You said “When I see some protestors, I wonder what the physiologic, and psychologic, genetics is for stupidity.” When you say such nonsense, you need look no further than your mirror my friend.
toasteroven over 14 years ago
“toasterolaf, started this thread at 0230 !!! Evidently has no life.”
It’s called working nights, lego. I’m generally in bed by 4 am, up around noon.
So honestly, no I don’t have much of a life. It’s a bit hard with those hours.
And I’d prefer that you call me ToasterOdin.
whhaymd over 14 years ago
(Irony warnig:) Yeah, there are lots of African-Americans at those protests. Let’s not pretend that these protests represent all groups. That’s as bad as when Sean Hannity substituted film from an earlier protest rally to make his look larger. see http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-november-10-2009/sean-hannity-uses-glenn-beck-s-protest-footage
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
whhaymd, and Hannity even admitted it the next day! What made it even more obvious is that the GOP rally against healthcare took place on an overcast Nov. day, and the footage of the Beck rally that they spliced into it took place on a sunny Sept. day.
Hannity said it was a mistake, but like the other times Fox blatantly and dishonestly edited and spliced footage, he failed to explain how footage of an event in Sept. accidentally gets mixed up with footage from November.
When Fox News (not commentary) spliced in a clip of Joe Biden to represent something said at the time, they had to go back nine months to distort something Biden said during the campaign and make it seem like he said it at the time. Biden’s nine-month-old footage was actually quoting McCain.
The anchor apologized the next day too, also simply saying it was a mistake. No explanation of how nine-month-old footage accidentally gets edited into current news story, though.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
so-called Roger: all of a sudden I hear all these libs saying how unpatriotic it is to question government and we must all support those in power!
You must hang out in strange places, because I haven’t heard a single person anywhere say such a demented thing. Rather, I hear liberals and moderates actively hoping the far right dements like yourself would engage in civil discourse using facts and logic. How perverse you must be … sort of like _RogOregon _whose demented rantings got him kicked off.
lonecat over 14 years ago
Dear Bruce,
Thanks for your reply to my comment. I don’t have much hope that any minds will be changed by any comments posted here, so mine are no more wasted than those of anyone else. I limit myself to one a week (except for replies). This is not the best forum for reasoned debate. I worry that this medium allows people to show their worst, rather than their best. I don’t claim that I am always right, and I would welcome correction. But I do try to show that it’s possible to comment without insulting others. I respect honest conservatives, because I think their goals are well intentioned, even if I think their methods won’t get us where we need to go.
I share the concern that the government is getting too deeply in debt, though in the short term that debt may be necessary. (Liberal economic policy has a Biblical basis, after all, in the story of the seven fat years and the seven lean years. The problem is that in the seven fat years we got into too much debt, so when the seven lean years came around we didn’t have a reserve.)
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
Did anyone else wonder what the “blue dog” is doing to the guy holding the “No Public Option” sign? Peeing on him?
NoFearPup over 14 years ago
ToasterOvum.
a.c.d over 14 years ago
johndh123, I am almost exhausted by your stupidity. If people dont work and there is no money, then people dont get anything. That is totally obvious and only an idiot would take a social issue and stretch it out to its extreme only to use the unlikely scenario as a means of negating the original issue. The whole reason why i am in favour of passing around some healthcare for people is because I know, from history, from sociology, from anthropology and even economics that if you do not provide for those less fortunate in the society they will revolt. Which is why America has some of the worst crime rates in the western world. America, thanks to its tight policies is just like the rest of south america. A minute number of uber rich controling the interests of the many. It is only through the establishment of a large middle class that a society and more importantly democracy can function. Now if anyone would like to get into a debate with me on that, feel free and I will gladly partake.