Ok, everybody agrees. the US economy is in the tank, and we’re over-board in debt. You can cut ALL domestic spending, and that will narrow the deficit by about 15%, but it won’t cut into the debt.
You can make all of the bottom 50% of families pay income taxes and raise a few billion dollars. But once again, it won’t balance the budget or pay down the out-standing debt. (It will, however, bankrupt a lot more poor families.) The only way to really put a dent in the deficit, much less the debt is an infusion of additional revenue dedicated ONLY to debt reduction.
So when are all of these super-patriot millionaires and billionaires and hugely profitable corporations going to say, “Ok, we’ve got a problem. Let’s all chip in and help out. Legally, I don’t owe any taxes, but we’ve all got to help. It’s time to pull together?”
@ Blue: Why would they want to? If one thing can be gleaned from our history it’s that our government doesn’t freaking learn from its past mistakes. If these private companies/individuals “bailed out” our federal government, you will have 2 things happen. 1) You will see our government’s credibility hacked apart as it can’t manage its own book of business and 2) The government will have learned nothing by being given an easy out.
The best way out of this fiscal crisis is not to get an infusion of cash, but to cut our spending levels to where we are actually operating in the black. That excess money can then go to pay down the debt. You pay down the debt, you shrink the interest payment, and frees up more capital to pay down the debt, and it snowballs until you have little to no debt. It works just like personal finances.
You, as an individual, can’t go to your parents every time you need cash, because eventually they’re going to say no. You can’t go to your friends, because they will say no. And you can’t just keep making MORE money, because there are only so many hours in a day. Reality sets in, and you realize you have to make some very tough choices. In there is the realization that you need to shrink your money output. Lose the cable TV. Lose the $100 cell phone bill. Etc.
This isn’t happening in our government. People need to recognize that every sector must be slashed in spending, and yes… including defense. Our defense will be meaningless if we don’t have anything to defend. But above all, the entitlement programs have got to be chopped. I don’t care if it hurts; all these cuts will hurt everyone. But if we don’t do that, the current 44% (current % of GDP medicare/medicaid and SS) output now is going to soon consume 2/3 or more of our budget, and then we’ll be screwed. It may not be the “nice” thing to do to those who have paid in all their lives to a program that they were counting on, but if we don’t it will bankrupt our country.
Raising our taxes won’t solve the problem. Soaking the rich won’t solve the problem. They may make those on the left feel better, but this isn’t about making you guys feel better. This is about solving the financial mess in which we find ourselves.
^ Neither will cutting food and medical assistance for the poorest Americans solve the problem. I’m not talking about soaking the rich. I’m talking about them (individuals and corporations) paying a fair share. As a middle-class taxpayer, I pay 15 or 20% in taxes. I’m simply asking that Koch and Soros and Buffet and Trump and GE and Exxon-Mobile pay a like amount. Yes, we need to cut wasteful spending, but that should include the Pentagon and Congress and Medicare and Iraq and Afghanistan, not just WIC and NPR and utility assistance for the poor.
I keep reading in these posts that the top 10% of earners in the US pay 50% of the taxes. But what they fail to add is that the same 10% receive 90% of the income and control 90% of the assets. Let’s put everything on the table so that we can ALL contribute to solve our NATIONAL problem.
Canuck, just as an FYI, small business ownership spiked during the recession. People did what the American spirit is known for: Become creative and resourceful to find a solution to your problem.
I am sure this boils down to the emotions of the haves vs. the have nots. It’s a very emotional issue. But the more we take from the haves and give to the have nots, the more towards a socialistic society we trend. That’s why a great number of us do not believe in raising taxes on the rich to solve our financial woes.
And that’s what’s happening in congress. There’s an ideological battle that’s happening: Do we cease giving to those who do not have, or do we take more from those that have earned it? Those are our only two options, and both options are bound to irritate someone. There is no happy medium, and unfortunately, one group is going to get screwed. It’s just a matter of who.
And for those who think it’s the big bubbas up at the top who should get screwed, think about the long-term implications of what you’re suggesting, and the precedent it sets. You lower the maximum bar and lower the bell curve of the average take-home pay. It’s a self-destructive and self-replicating cycle. That’s why I oppose soaking the rich for more: It will be a never-ending tide of raising taxes on the wealthy until the definition of wealthy meets the definition of middle class. Once we get to that point, we’ll no longer have the economic power to get ourselves out of that hole.
Is it tragic that we have people out of work? Yes. Are a good majority of them a result of downsizing and not their fault? Yes. Should we lift them up at the expense of the rest of the 91% of the working people? No. We have to make some painful cuts, and soon, or we’ll be washed away by the wave of debt that’s going to crash down on us. SS and Medicare MUST be reformed, and payouts be lowered. Defense spending must be streamlined and cuts made where possible. Discretionary spending must be restricted. Pork must end. Grants to states must be cut off. We must go back to the system where we don’t buy something if we don’t have the money in our checking account.
Just to prove my point that the government is at risk of defaulting on its obligations: Warren Buffet downsized his treasuries portfolio. Whatever you may think of this guy as a person (because he got rich blah blah blah), he’s still a very smart business man. The writing’s on the wall. The question we all should be asking ourselves is if we all have the collective courage to make the hard choices and tighten our belts.
WarBush about 13 years ago
Tax cuts for the rich off the backs of the working class. When will some of you people realize that the republicans hate you all?
Unless of course you have money…
trm about 13 years ago
Ah yes, taxing the “evil rich” will solve all our fiscal problems… or maybe not.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704604704576220491592684626.html?KEYWORDS=robert+frank
Bluejayz about 13 years ago
Ok, everybody agrees. the US economy is in the tank, and we’re over-board in debt. You can cut ALL domestic spending, and that will narrow the deficit by about 15%, but it won’t cut into the debt.
You can make all of the bottom 50% of families pay income taxes and raise a few billion dollars. But once again, it won’t balance the budget or pay down the out-standing debt. (It will, however, bankrupt a lot more poor families.) The only way to really put a dent in the deficit, much less the debt is an infusion of additional revenue dedicated ONLY to debt reduction.
So when are all of these super-patriot millionaires and billionaires and hugely profitable corporations going to say, “Ok, we’ve got a problem. Let’s all chip in and help out. Legally, I don’t owe any taxes, but we’ve all got to help. It’s time to pull together?”
We all know NeoConMan’s answer.
Wraithkin about 13 years ago
@ Blue: Why would they want to? If one thing can be gleaned from our history it’s that our government doesn’t freaking learn from its past mistakes. If these private companies/individuals “bailed out” our federal government, you will have 2 things happen. 1) You will see our government’s credibility hacked apart as it can’t manage its own book of business and 2) The government will have learned nothing by being given an easy out.
The best way out of this fiscal crisis is not to get an infusion of cash, but to cut our spending levels to where we are actually operating in the black. That excess money can then go to pay down the debt. You pay down the debt, you shrink the interest payment, and frees up more capital to pay down the debt, and it snowballs until you have little to no debt. It works just like personal finances.
You, as an individual, can’t go to your parents every time you need cash, because eventually they’re going to say no. You can’t go to your friends, because they will say no. And you can’t just keep making MORE money, because there are only so many hours in a day. Reality sets in, and you realize you have to make some very tough choices. In there is the realization that you need to shrink your money output. Lose the cable TV. Lose the $100 cell phone bill. Etc.
This isn’t happening in our government. People need to recognize that every sector must be slashed in spending, and yes… including defense. Our defense will be meaningless if we don’t have anything to defend. But above all, the entitlement programs have got to be chopped. I don’t care if it hurts; all these cuts will hurt everyone. But if we don’t do that, the current 44% (current % of GDP medicare/medicaid and SS) output now is going to soon consume 2/3 or more of our budget, and then we’ll be screwed. It may not be the “nice” thing to do to those who have paid in all their lives to a program that they were counting on, but if we don’t it will bankrupt our country.
Raising our taxes won’t solve the problem. Soaking the rich won’t solve the problem. They may make those on the left feel better, but this isn’t about making you guys feel better. This is about solving the financial mess in which we find ourselves.
Bluejayz about 13 years ago
^ Neither will cutting food and medical assistance for the poorest Americans solve the problem. I’m not talking about soaking the rich. I’m talking about them (individuals and corporations) paying a fair share. As a middle-class taxpayer, I pay 15 or 20% in taxes. I’m simply asking that Koch and Soros and Buffet and Trump and GE and Exxon-Mobile pay a like amount. Yes, we need to cut wasteful spending, but that should include the Pentagon and Congress and Medicare and Iraq and Afghanistan, not just WIC and NPR and utility assistance for the poor.
I keep reading in these posts that the top 10% of earners in the US pay 50% of the taxes. But what they fail to add is that the same 10% receive 90% of the income and control 90% of the assets. Let’s put everything on the table so that we can ALL contribute to solve our NATIONAL problem.
Wraithkin about 13 years ago
Canuck, just as an FYI, small business ownership spiked during the recession. People did what the American spirit is known for: Become creative and resourceful to find a solution to your problem.
I am sure this boils down to the emotions of the haves vs. the have nots. It’s a very emotional issue. But the more we take from the haves and give to the have nots, the more towards a socialistic society we trend. That’s why a great number of us do not believe in raising taxes on the rich to solve our financial woes.
And that’s what’s happening in congress. There’s an ideological battle that’s happening: Do we cease giving to those who do not have, or do we take more from those that have earned it? Those are our only two options, and both options are bound to irritate someone. There is no happy medium, and unfortunately, one group is going to get screwed. It’s just a matter of who.
And for those who think it’s the big bubbas up at the top who should get screwed, think about the long-term implications of what you’re suggesting, and the precedent it sets. You lower the maximum bar and lower the bell curve of the average take-home pay. It’s a self-destructive and self-replicating cycle. That’s why I oppose soaking the rich for more: It will be a never-ending tide of raising taxes on the wealthy until the definition of wealthy meets the definition of middle class. Once we get to that point, we’ll no longer have the economic power to get ourselves out of that hole.
Is it tragic that we have people out of work? Yes. Are a good majority of them a result of downsizing and not their fault? Yes. Should we lift them up at the expense of the rest of the 91% of the working people? No. We have to make some painful cuts, and soon, or we’ll be washed away by the wave of debt that’s going to crash down on us. SS and Medicare MUST be reformed, and payouts be lowered. Defense spending must be streamlined and cuts made where possible. Discretionary spending must be restricted. Pork must end. Grants to states must be cut off. We must go back to the system where we don’t buy something if we don’t have the money in our checking account.
Just to prove my point that the government is at risk of defaulting on its obligations: Warren Buffet downsized his treasuries portfolio. Whatever you may think of this guy as a person (because he got rich blah blah blah), he’s still a very smart business man. The writing’s on the wall. The question we all should be asking ourselves is if we all have the collective courage to make the hard choices and tighten our belts.