ANDY - I guess you right, it’s all our fault, Cheney/Bush and the GOP had nothing to do with it.
You do, of course, understand that your tirade says the war was wrong and that everyone who supported it was wrong, so therefore Cheney/Bush, the GOP, and everyone other then God was wrong.
Ken, I don’t think that ANandy said that anything about the war was wrong here. It says (correct me if I’m wrong ANandy) that the collective “we” as in all Americans, as well as the United Nations, saw Sadam as a threat. We were all in agreement. I’m old enough to remember that as well, Ken. Maybe you are not. So not all of the credit can be given to Mr Bush and Mr Cheney for the overthrow of Sadam and for the war on terrorism.
What I may never understand is why the liberals rant about how wrong the war is, but have dramatically escalated the efforts with troops and spending. Wouldn’t a gradual withdrawl have made you somewhat less hypocritical?
LOCO - I’m against the war in Afganistan, I think we should have pulled out as soon as possible. The winding down of the Iraq War started under Bush, and has continued.
My rant against Cheney/Bush on Iraq is that there was no need for the war, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, didn’t support terrorism, and the “weapons of mass destructions” was something the created as an excuse to start the war.
If you are lied to and fall for the lie, which most Americans did, it doesn’t matter if you were Conservative or LIB, it’s the liar’s fault.
Many Americans were against the war because they didn’t believe the lie.
5,000+ American soilders are dead because of the lie, that is what we LIBS are upset about.
To whom are you referring, Loco? Liberals have turned against Obama precisely because he has not yet delivered on his promise to move us out of Iraq.
And actually, while Saddam (two Ds, dammit! Two!) was a threat to the Mideast, he was hardly a threat to us despite the Bush/Cheney lies in that respect. Note that we were happy to fund him – to be precise, Reagan and Bush were happy to fund him; remember Rumsfeld shaking hands with him? – when Iran and Iraq were at each other’s throats.
Ken, Radish, mmoottiivvee, good replies all. Thank you.
As I recall, however, Saddam had actually used WMD (chemical) against his own populace prior to 9/11, which was documented, so that argument against the war is invalid. Blown out of proportion, maybe, but chemical warfare scares me. Nasty way to die. I also remember how Saddam extended an open invitation to Osama Bin Laden (prior to 9/11) to take refuge in Bagdad if he needed to. That speech was televised, and I remember wondering who Bin Ladin was.
Yes, we did prop Saddam to start. Jesus also extended his hand to Judas. Both agreements started off alright. Judas demise is well storied. Saddam, well, surrounded by other “interests” might have seen his way clear to make new friends. Or save his A$$. Or just plain have been overcome by power.
Cheney/Bush and the boys made it quiet clear that when they talked about WMD’s they meant nuclear not gas or poison. Remember all of the talk about “entriched uranium!”
Thanks, Loco. (And funny spelling!) But the reason we took out Saddam is because the neocons thought he was (1) the most vulnerable, since he wasn’t hooked up with the religious fundamentalists, and (2) was sitting on one of the largest oil sources. GHW Bush knew it was a bad idea to topple Saddam, and said so in his book for sensible, clear-cut reasons that have turned out to be prescient. Too bad his son didn’t ask his advice.
No one has mentioned PNAC and the neo-con vision of remaking the Middle East with Iraq as the easy entry point. Not to mention that it would take a new Pearl Harbor to get the people on board. I can’t believe these liars broadcast what they would do back in 1997 and NO ONE has called them on it. “Liberal media” my foot.
Those at the top knew the WMD argument was bogus. If they didn’t then I’m smarter than they are because I knew it was all a load of cr@p. They went through reason after reason until they finally got Tenet to say he would back up the WMD claim.
And yes Loco, we sold him the gas (by we I mean Reagan, rummy et al) when he was fighting Iran. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” even if they’re sociopaths like Saddam, Pinochet, the Taliban, Bin Laden etc ad infinitum.
Kylop about 14 years ago
So Bob, Does the common nose indicate we’re related to the Iraqis?
kennethcwarren64 about 14 years ago
ANDY - I guess you right, it’s all our fault, Cheney/Bush and the GOP had nothing to do with it.
You do, of course, understand that your tirade says the war was wrong and that everyone who supported it was wrong, so therefore Cheney/Bush, the GOP, and everyone other then God was wrong.
Loco80 about 14 years ago
Ken, I don’t think that ANandy said that anything about the war was wrong here. It says (correct me if I’m wrong ANandy) that the collective “we” as in all Americans, as well as the United Nations, saw Sadam as a threat. We were all in agreement. I’m old enough to remember that as well, Ken. Maybe you are not. So not all of the credit can be given to Mr Bush and Mr Cheney for the overthrow of Sadam and for the war on terrorism.
What I may never understand is why the liberals rant about how wrong the war is, but have dramatically escalated the efforts with troops and spending. Wouldn’t a gradual withdrawl have made you somewhat less hypocritical?
kennethcwarren64 about 14 years ago
LOCO - I’m against the war in Afganistan, I think we should have pulled out as soon as possible. The winding down of the Iraq War started under Bush, and has continued.
My rant against Cheney/Bush on Iraq is that there was no need for the war, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, didn’t support terrorism, and the “weapons of mass destructions” was something the created as an excuse to start the war.
If you are lied to and fall for the lie, which most Americans did, it doesn’t matter if you were Conservative or LIB, it’s the liar’s fault.
Many Americans were against the war because they didn’t believe the lie.
5,000+ American soilders are dead because of the lie, that is what we LIBS are upset about.
WHY AREN’T YOU?
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
To whom are you referring, Loco? Liberals have turned against Obama precisely because he has not yet delivered on his promise to move us out of Iraq. And actually, while Saddam (two Ds, dammit! Two!) was a threat to the Mideast, he was hardly a threat to us despite the Bush/Cheney lies in that respect. Note that we were happy to fund him – to be precise, Reagan and Bush were happy to fund him; remember Rumsfeld shaking hands with him? – when Iran and Iraq were at each other’s throats.
Loco80 about 14 years ago
Ken, Radish, mmoottiivvee, good replies all. Thank you. As I recall, however, Saddam had actually used WMD (chemical) against his own populace prior to 9/11, which was documented, so that argument against the war is invalid. Blown out of proportion, maybe, but chemical warfare scares me. Nasty way to die. I also remember how Saddam extended an open invitation to Osama Bin Laden (prior to 9/11) to take refuge in Bagdad if he needed to. That speech was televised, and I remember wondering who Bin Ladin was. Yes, we did prop Saddam to start. Jesus also extended his hand to Judas. Both agreements started off alright. Judas demise is well storied. Saddam, well, surrounded by other “interests” might have seen his way clear to make new friends. Or save his A$$. Or just plain have been overcome by power.
kennethcwarren64 about 14 years ago
Cheney/Bush and the boys made it quiet clear that when they talked about WMD’s they meant nuclear not gas or poison. Remember all of the talk about “entriched uranium!”
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
Thanks, Loco. (And funny spelling!) But the reason we took out Saddam is because the neocons thought he was (1) the most vulnerable, since he wasn’t hooked up with the religious fundamentalists, and (2) was sitting on one of the largest oil sources. GHW Bush knew it was a bad idea to topple Saddam, and said so in his book for sensible, clear-cut reasons that have turned out to be prescient. Too bad his son didn’t ask his advice.
lalas about 14 years ago
No one has mentioned PNAC and the neo-con vision of remaking the Middle East with Iraq as the easy entry point. Not to mention that it would take a new Pearl Harbor to get the people on board. I can’t believe these liars broadcast what they would do back in 1997 and NO ONE has called them on it. “Liberal media” my foot.
Those at the top knew the WMD argument was bogus. If they didn’t then I’m smarter than they are because I knew it was all a load of cr@p. They went through reason after reason until they finally got Tenet to say he would back up the WMD claim.
And yes Loco, we sold him the gas (by we I mean Reagan, rummy et al) when he was fighting Iran. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” even if they’re sociopaths like Saddam, Pinochet, the Taliban, Bin Laden etc ad infinitum.