We all agree that the rollout was not a success, particularly in red states where the government is fighting really hard to keep the poor ignorant of their new lifeline. But the bit about the death panels and 3 trillion dollars is complete, utter, unsubstantiated hogwash, and you should be ashamed to repeat it here. The ACA is paid for with taxes and substantial cost reduction, and the CBO still says it takes a big chunk off the deficit. If Obamacare really is bad, why do conservatives have to lie about it when they make their case? Did you read Eric Stein’s Salon piece about the three couples on Sean Hannity’s Fox News show last week who all lied about their Obamacare problems? It was embarrassing how transparently false their arguments were, but some conservatives actually believe this stuff.
Does anyone remember how difficult it was to bring Medicare up in 1965? It will take 2 to 4 years to get ACA to work as intended. Even then there will be some rough spots for awhile.
Ignorance is so ugly. The vast majority of the poor are poor because they were born into poor families. The vast majority of the very wealthy are very wealthy because they were born into very wealthy families. There’s no one to blame for that; it’s just how it is. The difference is the very wealthy have the ability to help the poor, and make things better for everyone, but are obsessed with keeping it all, even though most of it is hidden away offshore in secret bank accounts. The very wealthy collect and hoard their money. The more they got it through inheritance, the more they hoard it. The poor are denigrated for being poor. As to the rest of your comment, I must assume that you are wrong because most of everything you post is wrong. Wanting something to be a certain way only makes it fact in your own muddled mind. To quote NeoConMan: Boy, I’m with you; I hope the whole Obamacare thing fails and the economy tanks and America goes entirely down the toilet.
Because then we can blame Obama.I think that’s pretty much where you are.
breitbart??? Are kidding me? You’re trying to support your lunacy by means of a totally discredited source. Runs neck to neck with that other beacon of credibility, the drudge report.
The only reason the far right wants that ACA to fail is so they can blame a failure on Obama. Assuming it succeeds which in time I think it will Obama will go down in the history books like FDR for implementing a program designed to give everyone affordable health coverage. Why anyone would otherwise want this program to fail is beyond me. If you don’t like it make some suggestions to help make it a success.
But, but, but, the German and general European health care system is single payer, which is an even greater socialist anathema to the ultra conservatives here and elsewhere. Do you think such a sensible system could ever get passed in the current atmosphere of the US?
Agree! They really only support soldiers while they can still fight. Once old or infirm, they would really just like for them to go away. It’s the same plan they have for the homeless.
At this particular time it would seem that all of our usual ultra conservatives are lashing out. It is kind of sad really, as they are neither stupid nor uneducated. They just absolutely follow a particular ideology so closely that they become totally nasty about it after awhile. If they would just come out with reasonable facts, they would make much more impact. And the name calling and twisting of names is not conducive to reasonable debate either. I will admit that there are times when I too am tempted to do the same at times, but I will continue to force myself to be relatively moderate, even though I do lean to the liberal side of things.If such people would tone down the troll like rhetoric, then we might all get along much better!!
From wikipedia:“Bismarck implemented the world’s first welfare state in the 1880s. He worked closely with big industry and aimed to stimulate German economic growth by giving workers greater security. A secondary concern was trumping the Socialists, who had no welfare proposals of their own and opposed Bismarck’s….Bismarck’s idea was to implement welfare programs that were acceptable to the conservatives without any socialistic aspects….Bismarck’s program centered squarely on insurance programs designed to increase productivity, and focus the political attentions of German workers on supporting the Junker’s government. The program included health insurance, accident insurance, disability insurance, and a retirement pension, none of which were then currently in existence to any great degree….The first bill that had success was the Health Insurance bill, which was passed in 1883. The program was considered the least important from Bismarck’s point of view, and the least politically troublesome. The program was established to provide health care for the largest segment of the German workers. The health service was established on a local basis, with the cost divided between employers and the employed. The employers contributed 1/3, while the workers contributed 2/3s. The minimum payments for medical treatment and Sick Pay for up to 13 weeks were legally fixed. The individual local health bureaus were administered by a committee elected by the members of each bureau, and this move had the unintended effect of establishing a majority representation for the workers on account of their large financial contribution.
Actually, Harleyquinn is quoting me, but you didn’t see the rest of the statement: “Ignorance is so ugly. The vast majority of the poor are poor because they were born into poor families. The vast majority of the very wealthy are very wealthy because they were born into very wealthy families. There’s no one to blame for that; it’s just how it is. The difference is the very wealthy have the ability to help the poor, and make things better for everyone, but are obsessed with keeping it all, even though most of it is hidden away offshore in secret bank accounts. The very wealthy collect and hoard their money. The more they got it through inheritance, the more they hoard it. The poor are denigrated for being poor.”
As usual, Harleyquinn missed the point and/or failed to organize his thinking.
I can’t disagree with your final statement, however. America is establishing a class system. Don’t confuse me with those who condone it, like mitt romney.
You state: The “poor” in this country live better then 99% of this world. While probably not untrue, are we now comparing America to places like Somalia or Haiti? Come on, we can do better than that. The point is that there is plenty to go around for everyone to live better lives, but the very wealthy are not interested in sharing their obscene excess.
The rest of your comment is gobbledy-gook. But I think I extracted something about wealth envy and class warfare. The only class warfare currently being carried out in America is from the top. There are many studies showing a gigantic historical redistribution of wealth being transferred from the working and middle classes straight to the wealthiest people at the top.
There already exists an “us vs. them.” The poor know they’re poor and most of them know why it will be difficult to change their status anytime soon.
ConserveGov over 10 years ago
Only the libs like Rogers and the low IQ posters on this site who claimed BarryCare would be great are surprised by this disaster.
ARodney over 10 years ago
We all agree that the rollout was not a success, particularly in red states where the government is fighting really hard to keep the poor ignorant of their new lifeline. But the bit about the death panels and 3 trillion dollars is complete, utter, unsubstantiated hogwash, and you should be ashamed to repeat it here. The ACA is paid for with taxes and substantial cost reduction, and the CBO still says it takes a big chunk off the deficit. If Obamacare really is bad, why do conservatives have to lie about it when they make their case? Did you read Eric Stein’s Salon piece about the three couples on Sean Hannity’s Fox News show last week who all lied about their Obamacare problems? It was embarrassing how transparently false their arguments were, but some conservatives actually believe this stuff.
rockngolfer over 10 years ago
I guess you would like the republican alternative better, oh wait.
d_legendary1 over 10 years ago
Its not single payer, but it is better than the alternative which is nothing.
bstew97209 over 10 years ago
Does anyone remember how difficult it was to bring Medicare up in 1965? It will take 2 to 4 years to get ACA to work as intended. Even then there will be some rough spots for awhile.
sdut sucks over 10 years ago
Ignorance is so ugly. The vast majority of the poor are poor because they were born into poor families. The vast majority of the very wealthy are very wealthy because they were born into very wealthy families. There’s no one to blame for that; it’s just how it is. The difference is the very wealthy have the ability to help the poor, and make things better for everyone, but are obsessed with keeping it all, even though most of it is hidden away offshore in secret bank accounts. The very wealthy collect and hoard their money. The more they got it through inheritance, the more they hoard it. The poor are denigrated for being poor. As to the rest of your comment, I must assume that you are wrong because most of everything you post is wrong. Wanting something to be a certain way only makes it fact in your own muddled mind. To quote NeoConMan: Boy, I’m with you; I hope the whole Obamacare thing fails and the economy tanks and America goes entirely down the toilet.
Because then we can blame Obama.I think that’s pretty much where you are.
sdut sucks over 10 years ago
breitbart??? Are kidding me? You’re trying to support your lunacy by means of a totally discredited source. Runs neck to neck with that other beacon of credibility, the drudge report.
Dapperdan61 Premium Member over 10 years ago
The only reason the far right wants that ACA to fail is so they can blame a failure on Obama. Assuming it succeeds which in time I think it will Obama will go down in the history books like FDR for implementing a program designed to give everyone affordable health coverage. Why anyone would otherwise want this program to fail is beyond me. If you don’t like it make some suggestions to help make it a success.
frodo1008 over 10 years ago
But, but, but, the German and general European health care system is single payer, which is an even greater socialist anathema to the ultra conservatives here and elsewhere. Do you think such a sensible system could ever get passed in the current atmosphere of the US?
sdut sucks over 10 years ago
Agree! They really only support soldiers while they can still fight. Once old or infirm, they would really just like for them to go away. It’s the same plan they have for the homeless.
sdut sucks over 10 years ago
You are the ignorant one! REALLY? Speaking of snappy comebacks…How about “Everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you!” Your turn.
frodo1008 over 10 years ago
At this particular time it would seem that all of our usual ultra conservatives are lashing out. It is kind of sad really, as they are neither stupid nor uneducated. They just absolutely follow a particular ideology so closely that they become totally nasty about it after awhile. If they would just come out with reasonable facts, they would make much more impact. And the name calling and twisting of names is not conducive to reasonable debate either. I will admit that there are times when I too am tempted to do the same at times, but I will continue to force myself to be relatively moderate, even though I do lean to the liberal side of things.If such people would tone down the troll like rhetoric, then we might all get along much better!!
lonecat over 10 years ago
From wikipedia:“Bismarck implemented the world’s first welfare state in the 1880s. He worked closely with big industry and aimed to stimulate German economic growth by giving workers greater security. A secondary concern was trumping the Socialists, who had no welfare proposals of their own and opposed Bismarck’s….Bismarck’s idea was to implement welfare programs that were acceptable to the conservatives without any socialistic aspects….Bismarck’s program centered squarely on insurance programs designed to increase productivity, and focus the political attentions of German workers on supporting the Junker’s government. The program included health insurance, accident insurance, disability insurance, and a retirement pension, none of which were then currently in existence to any great degree….The first bill that had success was the Health Insurance bill, which was passed in 1883. The program was considered the least important from Bismarck’s point of view, and the least politically troublesome. The program was established to provide health care for the largest segment of the German workers. The health service was established on a local basis, with the cost divided between employers and the employed. The employers contributed 1/3, while the workers contributed 2/3s. The minimum payments for medical treatment and Sick Pay for up to 13 weeks were legally fixed. The individual local health bureaus were administered by a committee elected by the members of each bureau, and this move had the unintended effect of establishing a majority representation for the workers on account of their large financial contribution.
sdut sucks over 10 years ago
Actually, Harleyquinn is quoting me, but you didn’t see the rest of the statement: “Ignorance is so ugly. The vast majority of the poor are poor because they were born into poor families. The vast majority of the very wealthy are very wealthy because they were born into very wealthy families. There’s no one to blame for that; it’s just how it is. The difference is the very wealthy have the ability to help the poor, and make things better for everyone, but are obsessed with keeping it all, even though most of it is hidden away offshore in secret bank accounts. The very wealthy collect and hoard their money. The more they got it through inheritance, the more they hoard it. The poor are denigrated for being poor.”
As usual, Harleyquinn missed the point and/or failed to organize his thinking.
I can’t disagree with your final statement, however. America is establishing a class system. Don’t confuse me with those who condone it, like mitt romney.
sdut sucks over 10 years ago
You state: The “poor” in this country live better then 99% of this world. While probably not untrue, are we now comparing America to places like Somalia or Haiti? Come on, we can do better than that. The point is that there is plenty to go around for everyone to live better lives, but the very wealthy are not interested in sharing their obscene excess.
The rest of your comment is gobbledy-gook. But I think I extracted something about wealth envy and class warfare. The only class warfare currently being carried out in America is from the top. There are many studies showing a gigantic historical redistribution of wealth being transferred from the working and middle classes straight to the wealthiest people at the top.
There already exists an “us vs. them.” The poor know they’re poor and most of them know why it will be difficult to change their status anytime soon.
William Bednar Premium Member over 10 years ago
Gee, I wonder how Romney did it in Mass? Guess we should have elected go ol’ Mitt, huh?