Its like being like being told you’re getting a $100 bill for Christmas and then receiving a coupon for free coffee with the purchase of a large latte.
bruce what does your reference to a two percent profit margin represent? Not private health insurers certainly. The range of combined overhead and profits for private health insurers is between 2o to 35 percent. The “profit” is hard to ascertain since insurers claim all their executive perks, bonuses, etc., as expenses, not profits. As a comparison, Medicare’s administrative overhead is about three percent.
Another poster here once claimed private insurers had a three percent profit margin, and when he finally provided a link to his claim, it was bunk. He cited a quarterly report on the stocks of private health insurers which showed a three percent increase in stock value for a single quarter. That’s not the same thing as a profit margin, nor the same thing as the dreaded medical loss ratio, which represents the difference between what insurers collect and what they pay out.
i’ve researched and posted links to independent sources for this info in the past, but don’t have them handy. If you REALLY REALLY want me to, I’ll try to find them again … if you promise to read them!
if i kept a collection of bad artwork from the editorial cartoons, this piece by bennett would be included. i’m sure marshall mcluhan is turning over in his grave. the laziness of today’s toonist is more illustrated than whatever else the toonist is trying to say.
hank197857 wrote, “if i kept a collection of bad artwork from the editorial cartoons, this piece by bennett would be included”
What in the hell are you talking about Hank? Bennett is one of the best draftsman in the business today. How exactly is this artwork ‘bad’?
I’m completely baffled by your comment. I would agree that many editorial cartoonists today are lazy, but Clay Bennett would definitely NOT be on that list.
Please explain exactly what it is that you find so ‘bad’ about this particular cartoon. I would really like to hear your rationale.
“Overhead” includes CEO salaries and bonuses deducted from “gross income” BEFORE calculating either taxes OR “profit”. I’ve seen dozens of cases where “profit margin” was listed as 3%, where ACTUAL profit was as much as 80% of sales. Given the fact that the vast majority of tax codes is EXEMPTIONS, not “taxes”, any accountant worth his salt, or is it caviar, can find ways to keep corporate profits nil, given especially “corporate” law and tax policies in the last 30 years.
As to Dr. visits/insurance and catastrophic, hospital stay only, exactly why does church think a hospital stay IS so expensive? Hospitals/tests/and pharmaceuticals ARE the insurance industry gravy train!
church, I’ve posted the data, with links, several times in the past about Medicare overhead and profit margins of insurance industry-wide. You go back and look it up, go to my collection of healthcare reform toons and find it.
The three percent profit margin for insurance cos. falsehood came from both you and GNWachs. We had back and forth dialogue about it. When GMWachs posted a chart, it was a chart showing the increase in stock prices for a single quarter, as stated directly on the chart itself. GMWachs ignored it, you wrote something to the effect that I was correct, the chart was only for increases in stock prices. Surprised you don’t recall that, because GNWachs claim, the one you also took up, was completely debunked.
Profits up, premiums up, but medical spending lags
By Russ Britt, MarketWatch.com Oct. 15, 2004
LOS ANGELES (CBS.MW) – Despite a weak economy and soaring medical costs, U.S. health insurers have raked in earnings at a far greater pace than the rest of corporate America, with annual profits and margins doubling in the
last four years.
As U.S. companies struggled with leaner profits amid double-digit increases in employee-health premiums, insurers spent less on medical costs but ate up more of America’s health-care dollars in profits and claims processing.
———————–
By Russ Britt, MarketWatch No. 19, 2009
LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) – It’s been a tough 10 years for Corporate America, but you wouldn’t know it by looking at the nation’s biggest health-care firms.
Data compiled by MarketWatch show that the 52 health-care companies in the index are about to close out the decade with average profits that nearly tripled.
Through the decade, the industry has proven it’s not only recession-proof. It’s also remarkably lucrative by any measure. Along the way, those riches have turned the sector’s stocks into Wall Street darlings, second only to the energy sector for a 10-year run that saw their market value rise nearly four-fold.
Health insurers – currently popular targets on Capitol Hill in the health-reform debate – more than tripled their income. Six of the insurers on the list are expected together to make more than $10 billion when this year’s results are final.
bruce, see my comments on Lisa Benson, 12/15, on status of proposed healthcare legislation. I don’t defend ANY earmarks that may be tagged onto this bill, including the $300 million for Louisiana, and whatever it is Ben Nelson is angling for, or whatever it may be that Lieberman may be angling for.
I sure don’t defend the process at all. If ever there was a time to try to pull together and enact something for the good of the country, trying to achieve healthcare reform is it. Our delivery system is broken. It’s time to fix it. Some members of Congress get a big fat F for trying to maintain status quo or use this occasion for their own personal gain.
I just remind people that one of the first solutions was to allow uninsured and underinsured to buy into the same plan federal employees have was a simple solution, but the GOP killed it with help from some bluedog Dems, screaming govt takeover of healthcare, even though federal employees choose from private insurance plans. The facts are resolute things that don’t go away in the face of heated rhetoric.
TARP? geeze, bruce, I don’t defend that but 95 percent of economists said we HAD to do it. (I still wonder where is all those trillions that investment banks lost? who got that money? did investment banks even really pay out those losses? to whom?)
^ none of your sites are research sites, nor independent sites, nor legitimate media sites. One’s a blog (hotair.com), one’s an industry site that said info came from kaiser foundation, but didn’t bother to provide the link to the kaiser report, and one quotes a single sentence from an ABC reporter who talked to unnamed analyst, again, no link, no context. I’m sure there are legitimate sites to back up your claims or are they all conservative blogs and “cypercastnewsservice” that rants about liberal media?
C’mon church put some effort into your research.
I gave you Market Watch, source for the conservative Wall St. Journal.
Here’s another, complete with chart of info from SEC, no less
not necessarily trying to ignore you, comsymp, just … busy. i don’t like the art in this particular toon. it seems trite to me. granted, i’ve only been a consumer of this site for but a short time, and my list of favorites is a rather limited one. still, i do look forward to the artwork of danziger, barstow, and oliphant. i also appreciate what luckovich and kallaugher do.
… and while art appreciation is itself extremely subjective, editorial artwork faces the additional challenge of having to make some sort of political statement. i don’t care much for the editorial comments of the toons. i’d rather read some of the posts and admire the art for being a creation of gifted, fine motor skills.
nonetheless, mcluhan had it right, and this particular artwork of bennett, in and of itself, is but a sad commentary on our country’s state of affairs.
Let’s put it this way: the government does not have a profit motive so it does not have to worry about paying C.E.O.s like “Dollar Bill” McGuire $1.2 Billion dollars in compensation for leaving United Health.
And any for profit business that runs at 3% profit margin is known as a bankrupt business. Anyone who’s taken an accounting or economic course knows that the minimum profit margin that you need to operate on is 15% to stay in business. Why 15%? Cause you need to pay your employees, rent, equipment, supplies, raw materials (if any), etc. and so on.
These guys are running at 30-50% overhead because the people at the top need those billions to retire with. Government would need at least 10% overhead to do the same job and at a more efficient rate. Do that and you won’t have an industry accounting for 10% of our GDP.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
and wrapped inside the package is a card for for-profit health insurers: Immunity from reform efforts. Go directly to excessive profits.
NoFearPup over 14 years ago
Outlaw insurance companies…put the money into green technology.
d_legendary1 over 14 years ago
Its like being like being told you’re getting a $100 bill for Christmas and then receiving a coupon for free coffee with the purchase of a large latte.
NoFearPup over 14 years ago
“Do Not Open ‘Til 2014.”
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
bruce what does your reference to a two percent profit margin represent? Not private health insurers certainly. The range of combined overhead and profits for private health insurers is between 2o to 35 percent. The “profit” is hard to ascertain since insurers claim all their executive perks, bonuses, etc., as expenses, not profits. As a comparison, Medicare’s administrative overhead is about three percent.
Another poster here once claimed private insurers had a three percent profit margin, and when he finally provided a link to his claim, it was bunk. He cited a quarterly report on the stocks of private health insurers which showed a three percent increase in stock value for a single quarter. That’s not the same thing as a profit margin, nor the same thing as the dreaded medical loss ratio, which represents the difference between what insurers collect and what they pay out.
i’ve researched and posted links to independent sources for this info in the past, but don’t have them handy. If you REALLY REALLY want me to, I’ll try to find them again … if you promise to read them!
hank197857 over 14 years ago
if i kept a collection of bad artwork from the editorial cartoons, this piece by bennett would be included. i’m sure marshall mcluhan is turning over in his grave. the laziness of today’s toonist is more illustrated than whatever else the toonist is trying to say.
NoFearPup over 14 years ago
There better be…you guessed it…fishnets in there!
comsymp over 14 years ago
hank197857 wrote, “if i kept a collection of bad artwork from the editorial cartoons, this piece by bennett would be included”
What in the hell are you talking about Hank? Bennett is one of the best draftsman in the business today. How exactly is this artwork ‘bad’?
I’m completely baffled by your comment. I would agree that many editorial cartoonists today are lazy, but Clay Bennett would definitely NOT be on that list.
Please explain exactly what it is that you find so ‘bad’ about this particular cartoon. I would really like to hear your rationale.
NoFearPup over 14 years ago
I believe Hank is equating the sparse image content with a lack of imagination…
lalas over 14 years ago
Myabe Hank needs 20 panels of dialogue like @sshat puts in his strips.
Dtroutma over 14 years ago
“Overhead” includes CEO salaries and bonuses deducted from “gross income” BEFORE calculating either taxes OR “profit”. I’ve seen dozens of cases where “profit margin” was listed as 3%, where ACTUAL profit was as much as 80% of sales. Given the fact that the vast majority of tax codes is EXEMPTIONS, not “taxes”, any accountant worth his salt, or is it caviar, can find ways to keep corporate profits nil, given especially “corporate” law and tax policies in the last 30 years.
As to Dr. visits/insurance and catastrophic, hospital stay only, exactly why does church think a hospital stay IS so expensive? Hospitals/tests/and pharmaceuticals ARE the insurance industry gravy train!
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
church, I’ve posted the data, with links, several times in the past about Medicare overhead and profit margins of insurance industry-wide. You go back and look it up, go to my collection of healthcare reform toons and find it.
The three percent profit margin for insurance cos. falsehood came from both you and GNWachs. We had back and forth dialogue about it. When GMWachs posted a chart, it was a chart showing the increase in stock prices for a single quarter, as stated directly on the chart itself. GMWachs ignored it, you wrote something to the effect that I was correct, the chart was only for increases in stock prices. Surprised you don’t recall that, because GNWachs claim, the one you also took up, was completely debunked.
davesmithsit over 14 years ago
Never open this package! Burn it ,blow it up, destroy it any way you can. Because if you open it, its going to destroy every freedom you hold dear.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
By Russ Britt, MarketWatch.com Oct. 15, 2004
LOS ANGELES (CBS.MW) – Despite a weak economy and soaring medical costs, U.S. health insurers have raked in earnings at a far greater pace than the rest of corporate America, with annual profits and margins doubling in the last four years.
As U.S. companies struggled with leaner profits amid double-digit increases in employee-health premiums, insurers spent less on medical costs but ate up more of America’s health-care dollars in profits and claims processing. ———————– By Russ Britt, MarketWatch No. 19, 2009
LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) – It’s been a tough 10 years for Corporate America, but you wouldn’t know it by looking at the nation’s biggest health-care firms.
Data compiled by MarketWatch show that the 52 health-care companies in the index are about to close out the decade with average profits that nearly tripled.
Through the decade, the industry has proven it’s not only recession-proof. It’s also remarkably lucrative by any measure. Along the way, those riches have turned the sector’s stocks into Wall Street darlings, second only to the energy sector for a 10-year run that saw their market value rise nearly four-fold.
Health insurers – currently popular targets on Capitol Hill in the health-reform debate – more than tripled their income. Six of the insurers on the list are expected together to make more than $10 billion when this year’s results are final.
Motivemagus over 14 years ago
Just for funsies, check out the 2008 pay for health insurance CEOs. http://tinyurl.com/msbzkb
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
bruce, see my comments on Lisa Benson, 12/15, on status of proposed healthcare legislation. I don’t defend ANY earmarks that may be tagged onto this bill, including the $300 million for Louisiana, and whatever it is Ben Nelson is angling for, or whatever it may be that Lieberman may be angling for.
I sure don’t defend the process at all. If ever there was a time to try to pull together and enact something for the good of the country, trying to achieve healthcare reform is it. Our delivery system is broken. It’s time to fix it. Some members of Congress get a big fat F for trying to maintain status quo or use this occasion for their own personal gain.
I just remind people that one of the first solutions was to allow uninsured and underinsured to buy into the same plan federal employees have was a simple solution, but the GOP killed it with help from some bluedog Dems, screaming govt takeover of healthcare, even though federal employees choose from private insurance plans. The facts are resolute things that don’t go away in the face of heated rhetoric.
TARP? geeze, bruce, I don’t defend that but 95 percent of economists said we HAD to do it. (I still wonder where is all those trillions that investment banks lost? who got that money? did investment banks even really pay out those losses? to whom?)
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
^ none of your sites are research sites, nor independent sites, nor legitimate media sites. One’s a blog (hotair.com), one’s an industry site that said info came from kaiser foundation, but didn’t bother to provide the link to the kaiser report, and one quotes a single sentence from an ABC reporter who talked to unnamed analyst, again, no link, no context. I’m sure there are legitimate sites to back up your claims or are they all conservative blogs and “cypercastnewsservice” that rants about liberal media? C’mon church put some effort into your research.
I gave you Market Watch, source for the conservative Wall St. Journal.
Here’s another, complete with chart of info from SEC, no less
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2008/02/25/bisc0225.htm
we do agree on one thing — this site sucks tonight, runs as fast as thick molasses
NoFearPup over 14 years ago
Tax the rich already…they’ve had 10.5 months to do it…
Dtroutma over 14 years ago
BCS, Motive, don’t waste your time confusing them with facts, their minds are made up.
comYics over 14 years ago
Tv show: Saturday Night Live Lowered Expectations
hank197857 over 14 years ago
not necessarily trying to ignore you, comsymp, just … busy. i don’t like the art in this particular toon. it seems trite to me. granted, i’ve only been a consumer of this site for but a short time, and my list of favorites is a rather limited one. still, i do look forward to the artwork of danziger, barstow, and oliphant. i also appreciate what luckovich and kallaugher do.
… and while art appreciation is itself extremely subjective, editorial artwork faces the additional challenge of having to make some sort of political statement. i don’t care much for the editorial comments of the toons. i’d rather read some of the posts and admire the art for being a creation of gifted, fine motor skills.
nonetheless, mcluhan had it right, and this particular artwork of bennett, in and of itself, is but a sad commentary on our country’s state of affairs.
lalas over 14 years ago
Bruce… it is a shame though that a CEO gets more money for firing more employees.
As for the main argument thread here: Health care should NOT be for profit! Not at 30%, not at 3%.
NEVER!
d_legendary1 over 14 years ago
Let’s put it this way: the government does not have a profit motive so it does not have to worry about paying C.E.O.s like “Dollar Bill” McGuire $1.2 Billion dollars in compensation for leaving United Health.
And any for profit business that runs at 3% profit margin is known as a bankrupt business. Anyone who’s taken an accounting or economic course knows that the minimum profit margin that you need to operate on is 15% to stay in business. Why 15%? Cause you need to pay your employees, rent, equipment, supplies, raw materials (if any), etc. and so on.
These guys are running at 30-50% overhead because the people at the top need those billions to retire with. Government would need at least 10% overhead to do the same job and at a more efficient rate. Do that and you won’t have an industry accounting for 10% of our GDP.